Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Trust me, the only reason CNW ripped out lines wasn't because CN stopped shipping with them. The CNW was a master at removing a line. They would decide suddenly, and sometimes for no reason at all, that a line was profitable anymore, and they wouldn't try to keep it alive. Instead they'd pick a section somewhere in the middle that had no customers and abondon it. With no customers there was no one to protest it and so the ICC would get it through right away. Once the CNW had abonded the section it was no longer a through route, and so now the CNW would have another reason to abandon another section of the line. They would then proceed to drive away as many customers as they could by giving them sloppy and generally bad service, and then abandon another segment. This time even if there were customers, most didn't care as they had been screwed over by the CNW so bad that they had switched mostly to trucks already. Then they would continue to abandon or sell off the rest of the line untill they had gotten rid off all that they wanted. It was a easy way to save money by not having to maintain lines that were redundant or somewhat useless. The CNW was famous for this process, or at least famous among those who knew what was going on.....
Noah
First off I think some things need to be clarified here- when CN switched their traffic to the BN via Pokegama the railroad was still operated by the Canadian government- CN had yet to be privatized. As for the switchover itself it was not random- the BN, and CNW among others were in constant competition for the overhead traffic the CN provided over Duluth. The BN was able to win away this traffic almost completely from CNW in the early 90s by providing an almost criminally low overhead rate to Chicago, including haulage rights to CN. CNW could not match this offer and had to withdraw- but that did not keep them from trying to win the service back.
The reason the CNW line north of Chippewa Falls was partially abandoned was to combine physical plants with the parallel SOO main line to Duluth- in many places both lines ran almost on top of one another all the way to Duluth. CNW and WC decided to combine assets- which in turn would make them more competitive with BN's competing route. After the arrangement was complete, CNW sold their portion of the retained line to WC and aquired overhead rights to Duluth via Wisconsin Rapids and Owen. WC eventually won the battle for CN's traffic- and we all know what happened after that. CNW operated Chippewa Falls to Cameron until the merger with a local out of Altoona, and from the north operated the Trego-Hayward section as an "island" switching operation with sporatic service to Spooner (the old crew change point and yard.) UP sold off the Trego line to WC, but retained the Chippewa Falls portion until last year when it was leased to the Wisconsin Northern. UP still recieves interchange from CN at Duluth- and it's even picked up now that CN is trying to reroute traffic around the Chicago bottleneck. (Recall CNW had two lines to Duluth- the other via the old NP Skally line in MN- also still operated by UP)
As for the statements Noah made in regards to CNW's abandonment practices- there is truth to the accusations, but most were in relation to light density, redundant branch lines in Iowa that barely turned a profit in the Pre-Staggers railroad age. One famous case is the CNW's secondary line west from Eagle Grove to Onawa, IA- there was a lot of bad blood when CNW pulled the plug on that line. Many of the stories he relates in his post come out of the battle CNW fought with a couple shippers to have this line abandoned. As for main line abandonments- CNW was not a foolish railroad, if they could improve their route to a certain city by trackage rights, or haulage while abandoning their own redundant line and retaining profit, they did it. The Duluth lines being excellent examples (trackage rights on the Skally saved trains almost 200 miles of excessive route milage via the New Richmond Sub., and the combination of lines north of Chippewa Falls proved beneficial for both CNW and WC down the road.) The main reason CNW survived as long as it did was their ability to cut redundant mileage and money siphoning traffic, while at the same time winning overhead long haul traffic from UP (and later on coal traffic from the WRPI.)
While we all may not like CN's current business practices, it is important to know everything that went on before blaming the current management for everything.
i agree and accept that that almost all railroad traffic in my area has been reduced to a miniscule fraction of what it once was. but the WC never owned track in Eau Claire, i believe only CNW and MILW had track here when i was born and now it's all UP.
i indeed noticed the large amount of track parallel to the old CNW mainline on various maps i look at. and to think that it's all gone now is sad.
UP receives CN shipments? where do those trains go after that? because i know they dont go through Altoona. nor do any CN reroutes
i think i can blame CN's management for the scrapping of all the SD45s though, and i have heard they arent the nicest towards their workers either. but i have never heard any proof of that being true. are all their derailments they've had lately a true fact?
i also dont much care for most of the locomotives CN had and still has
i dont understand this part now. WC gets shipping rights from CN....and then CN gets WC. how did that all happen?
Right.
WC, DMIR, IC,etc are not gone. The are all operated as susidiaries.
UP NEEDS those units. CN DOESNT NEED the SD45's. CN NEEDS all the DMIR units because of straight air. They are broken down. Whether you like it or not, the SD45's are outdated, as are the SD45T-2's the DMIR has.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
I don't ever recall saying that the WC operated in Eau Claire- though I am certain that the Soo Line had an Eau Claire branch from CF to Eau Claire (mainly to serve the Uniroyal plant) I am not certain off the top of my head right now if that was still operational in 1987 when WC took over (conventional wisdom tells me at least part of the branch was still in at WC takeover). CNW's traffic through Altoona and Eau Claire was rerouted via the WC south to Owen, Junction City and Wi. Rapids. The Minneapolis main through Chip. Falls was not part of this new routing.
As I said before- the UP sends the majority of their overhead from CN at Duluth down the Skally line to Minneapolis/St. Paul and beyond, the rest is seen on MPRIT/MITPR trains via Owen/Wi. Rapids. To reiterate- it's been 15 years since any Duluth traffic headed through Altoona on it's way north on the CNW/UP line.
Also you stated "WC gets shipping rights from CN....and then CN gets WC. how did that all happen?" Canadian National got overhead haulage rights from WC, not the other way around- CN paid WC for the use of their tracks to Chicago to run their trains. WC made money running CN's trains for them to Chicago- just like the BN did before that. Previous to that CN had no haulage rights, and instead had to interchange all their traffic to other roads at Duluth/Superior.
While the derailments recently are true fact- there are hundreds of other accidents that happen on North American railroads that are in some cases just as serious that don't get as much attention as this. Yes, CN's had derailments- what railroad hasn't recently? I'm not going to make any assumptions on how CN treats it's employees either- you can find a disgruntled employee if you look hard enough in any company in this country. SD45s simply stated are outdated fuel-hogs that the WC for some reason enjoyed rostering- CN has the money to upgrade the fleet and that's what they've chosen to do, it's nothing sinister- just progress.
You all need to realize ... that an SD45 is a piece of junk to CN. CN isn't out to please people, especially you guys who are crying over the locomotives getting scrapped. Come on now ... I am a railfan who works for CN, I have seen the SD45's ... thats all I need.
And as for them painting all the units and sublettering them .. its a tax and money thing. Those alsthom units are being sublettered for that reason and other reasons that I am not really sure of.
It's an old locomotive that costs more to repair that it does to scrap it ... so why keep it?
CN knows how to run their trains with as little power as they can ... and they do a good job with it. Why run a train with two units when you only need one?
Yes, Hunter is a horrible man to his employees and how he wants this company run ... but CN is a company ... a company that is out to make money. Not to please anyone. The bottom line is the $ ... and if its a -$ then whatever needs to be done to make it a +$ will be done.
Go find a CN SD60/50F and a C40-8M and say yay I saw a freight cowl. Cause once CN gets the rest of their order for the SD70M-2's and the ES44DC's you are gunna see more locomotives gone ... and they are not going to be CN units on the majority.
I HATE it when people say they HATE CN ... because they don't know what they are talking about. And as for the derailments, yea there have been alot and CN doesn't maintain their track like they used to. It's a fact: trains derail, planes drop from the sky, transports flip over, cars crash ... its part of the job. And when it comes to hazardous materials ... do you want 90 transports taking those chemicals down the street where we all live or a couple tankers moving down the tracks?
But that is also every class one in Canda and the US ... so don't pick on CN .... it also comes down to the $ again. CN could care less if they derail. They don't care about the people they hurt in communities or famillies of employees they kill. We employees are just units that run trains. Why do you think they want hourly wage agreements that make us work 12 hours on, 8 off ... for 6 days a week?
They don't care about our health of lives ... its all $$$ .... so think about that when you start whining about locomotives etc. Cause there are more serious issues out there than seeing a WC or a DWP units get made into a screw.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
nordique72 wrote: SD45s simply stated are outdated fuel-hogs that the WC for some reason enjoyed rostering- CN has the money to upgrade the fleet and that's what they've chosen to do, it's nothing sinister- just progress.
SD45s simply stated are outdated fuel-hogs that the WC for some reason enjoyed rostering- CN has the money to upgrade the fleet and that's what they've chosen to do, it's nothing sinister- just progress.
THANK YOU!!!!!! I was going to post the same thing until I read your post!
My favorite railroad is Norfolk Southern, and all their SD45s(more unique than WC's IMO) were GONE by the early 90s. Those of you 'crying' about WC's 45s should count your blessings that they lasted this long.
Rob