What's going on on the MR forum?

[Adelie]

Looking at the timestamp on the last posting before the lockdown, I'm not surprised it is still down. Friday afternoon, sometime after 2:30pm. If Bergie's life is anything like mine, he has been busy this weekend doing things outside of the office. Let's be patient.

On another sour note, Brillaint Hobbies is going out of business. He sells mostly DCC stuff, mostly Digitrax, either via a web site or ebay. His prices were among the best I found and he was always responsive. Sorry to see him go. It is an odd twist, though. His business got too big too fast and he feels he can't keep up with it and provide the customer support he thinks is acceptable. Anyone in the need for something might want to check his website, because he is taking any reasonable offer. The website is brillianthobbies.com. Ignore the prices listed, since those were his prices when he was in business. Email him with offers if you find anything you like.

[Junctionfan]

You know, it would save the administrators, moderators and participators alot of greif (spelling error likely) if they made people submit their e-mail address to be seen only by the administrators. This way, what could be done is this....

New members are probationary.

They submit a reply or a topic to a moderator and then it is approved or not. After awhile when they have demonstrated they are mature enough to carry on intelligent or at least non-offensive conversations, they will have full rights and not subjected to moderator approval.

With e-mail address info at the moderators view, they can do a kind of background check to see if somebody is a known troll or a legitimate seeker of train knowledge.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by uspscsx

Whoa, is it just me, or was this moved from the TRAINS Magazine forum?

Hi,

Frankly it was misplaced in the TRAINS mag forum! It is in the right spot now, since the issue is "what happened on the lock-down?".

BTW one thing that all of us should keep in mind is: this is Kalmbach's webspace, they pay for it, they offer it free of charge to the model railroading community. So the least we - as the registered, non-paying guests - could do is accept their decision that the lock down was necessary.

Reading the rants, the second guessing and the "let's all move over here" posts on some of the other fora, gives me the impression that some people are a very unthankful bunch!

Perhaps that doesn't fit the general tenor, but I feel it needed to be mentioned!

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

He'll be back. With another username.
Allan.

i wonder if these forums can do IP locking . that usually gets rid of trolls . it's possible to get around IP locking but most trolls either aren't smart enough or motivated enough to bother

I suspect anything that phpBB can Snitz can, too. IP banning works to a certain degree, same applies to user name and email address banning. Not perfect but good enough!

The problem with very large fora is the time it takes to institute all that stuff.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RhB_HJ

QUOTE: Originally posted by uspscsx

Whoa, is it just me, or was this moved from the TRAINS Magazine forum?

Hi,

Frankly it was misplaced in the TRAINS mag forum! It is in the right spot now, since the issue is "what happened on the lock-down?".

BTW one thing that all of us should keep in mind is: this is Kalmbach's webspace, they pay for it, they offer it free of charge to the model railroading community. So the least we - as the registered, non-paying guests - could do is accept their decision that the lock down was necessary.

Reading the rants, the second guessing and the "let's all move over here" posts on some of the other fora, gives me the impression that some people are a very unthankful bunch!

Perhaps that doesn't fit the general tenor, but I feel it needed to be mentioned!

I belong to 6 different forums. I flee to one once something happens to the another. But whenever it gets cleared up, I'm right back over there.

[dgwinup]

I may be missing something in terms of preventing troll attacks. I was under the impression that IP blocking is a quick method of preventing someone from posting, even if they have hundreds of aliases. They most likely would be posting from the same computer, so blocking their IP would stop them dead in their tracks. Changing his user name would still get him blocked. I'm no computer guru, but it seems that would be the way to go.

Another thought on my mind, which I mentioned briefly before the forum was locked, is for the members to ignore the troll's postings. Trolls are looking for reactions to their posts. Giving them a response is giving them what they want. Copy the post to the moderator, but DON'T reply to it. Before being locked, I saw a post from a regular forum member that used a lot of unhappy smilies and a whole bunch of #$(@*- type phrases. I understand the member's frustration at the inappropriate posting, but his response was EXACTLY what the troll was looking for!

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Darrell, just quiet...for now

[bikerraypa]

ah, no biggie. Forums come and go. I've belonged to many a forum on many a topic, and this is inevitably the end for most. Trolls come, the forum becomes more trouble than its worth, and it goes away. One motorcycle forum I belonged to had thousands of members and hundreds and hundreds of daily posts. Political trolls destroyed it before the 2004 elections, and the owner pulled the plug. I don't blame him. It's not worth the hassle.

The nice thing is, you get over it. This was a great forum. I learned a lot. If it disappears, I'll find another one. No biggie. The bike forum I spoke of was my everyday hangout. After a month or so, I didn't miss it a bit. This will be the same way, I'm sure. Sad but true.

So yes, it sucks, but there are other forums in the sea[:D]. And don't be mad at the Kalmbach folks. It isn't their fault. They provided a great service just to be nice. It was ruined by punks and idiots and other assorted slime. Just like real life.

Be cool. [:)]


Ray

[spodwo]

With the advent of "free" wireless internet EVERYWHERE...blocking an IP address just won't stop someone. Libraries offer up free computers with 'net access as do schools as do hotels, etc.

I might add that many ISP use dynamic IP addresses so everytime you "connect" you IP address will be different.

Plus an IP address can be "spoofed" [falsified].

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RhB_HJ

BTW one thing that all of us should keep in mind is: this is Kalmbach's webspace, they pay for it, they offer it free of charge to the model railroading community. So the least we - as the registered, non-paying guests - could do is accept their decision that the lock down was necessary.

Reading the rants, the second guessing and the "let's all move over here" posts on some of the other fora, gives me the impression that some people are a very unthankful bunch!

Perhaps that doesn't fit the general tenor, but I feel it needed to be mentioned!

I can look at that from a different angle, I have subscriptions to Trains, Model Railroader and Classic Trains, as well as almost every How-To book that Kalmbach has put out. So in a sense they are being paid by me and many others who are subscribers, and purchasers of their products. Without or $$ going to them, they wouldn't have the capability to offer a "free" service if we hadn't done our part. I think what angers many is exactly why only the Model forums seem to be down, the trolls can attack the other forums if the issue is keeping them out. As for letting others know about other forums to go and post, I think the letter/posting that Terry Thompson had posted pretty much pointed to other issues they felt didn't fit their model of a forum for the members, as well as stated they may lock, or even drop the forums. So with that type of post, many, and I think it shows from the posts seen here and elsewhere that many wanted their MR forums fix, so offering another spot that wanted to habor them until things clear up, and since just the fact that the posts were moved from the other forum I think speaks a little about how they feel about the MR aspect of the forums, so I while grateful for the forums, am also a little miffed that we are out an outlet for our hobby. I simple note on MR and the other forums stating what was going on, is a small thing that would have carried a much better respect for us. Sorry that I could be angering you and others, including Kalmbach, but the Internet is a beast that has a life of it's own, to expect absolute control and stifling of opinion is wishful thinking.

Enough of my soapbox.

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

....I have subscriptions to Trains, Model Railroader and Classic Trains, as well as almost every How-To book that Kalmbach has put out.

And if they stop sending you the magazines for which you've paid, then you'll have a legitimate reason to gripe.

QUOTE: So in a sense they are being paid by me and many others who are subscribers, and purchasers of their products. Without or [sic] $$ going to them, they wouldn't have the capability to offer a "free" service if we hadn't done our part.

What a load of self-serving tripe. You never paid for the privilege of using the forums - if Kalmbach wants to shut them down for any reason, or for no reason, that is their right. Unless they made some written obligation to you to keep them up?

QUOTE: I think what angers many is exactly why only the Model forums seem to be down, the trolls can attack the other forums if the issue is keeping them out.

Did you ever stop to think that Terry shut down every forum HE controls? He's the editor / publisher of Model Railroader, and I believe, the publisher of CTT and Garden Railways. All those forums are shut down. Wow! What a strange coincidence! Maybe you should be glad the other publishers didn't do the same thing. But stay tuned, folks - it ain't over yet, I bet!!!

QUOTE: ... so I while grateful for the forums, am also a little miffed that we are out an outlet for our hobby. I simple note on MR and the other forums stating what was going on, is a small thing that would have carried a much better respect for us.

The sort of posting that was going on that led to this didn't show much respect for the forum providers, did it? Much like the rant you posted didn't. Do you really think it's a one-way street?

QUOTE: ...the Internet is a beast that has a life of it's own, to expect absolute control and stifling of opinion is wishful thinking.

You're right. A website owner can only exercize absolute control over their own website. Not the entire internet. Oh, wait! That's what we're talking about - Kalmbach maintaining control over it's own website! Kinda blows the heck out of your argument as it appears you intended it, doesn't it? But still, in the overall sense you are right. So start your own website and post pretty much whatever you want.

QUOTE: Enough of my soapbox.

Here we are in total agreement.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

....I have subscriptions to Trains, Model Railroader and Classic Trains, as well as almost every How-To book that Kalmbach has put out.

And if they stop sending you the magazines for which you've paid, then you'll have a legitimate reason to gripe.

QUOTE: So in a sense they are being paid by me and many others who are subscribers, and purchasers of their products. Without or [sic] $$ going to them, they wouldn't have the capability to offer a "free" service if we hadn't done our part.

What a load of self-serving tripe. You never paid for the privilege of using the forums - if Kalmbach wants to shut them down for any reason, or for no reason, that is their right. Unless they made some written obligation to you to keep them up?

QUOTE: I think what angers many is exactly why only the Model forums seem to be down, the trolls can attack the other forums if the issue is keeping them out.

Did you ever stop to think that Terry shut down every forum HE controls? He's the editor / publisher of Model Railroader, and I believe, the publisher of CTT and Garden Railways. All those forums are shut down. Wow! What a strange coincidence! Maybe you should be glad the other publishers didn't do the same thing. But stay tuned, folks - it ain't over yet, I bet!!!

QUOTE: ... so I while grateful for the forums, am also a little miffed that we are out an outlet for our hobby. I simple note on MR and the other forums stating what was going on, is a small thing that would have carried a much better respect for us.

The sort of posting that was going on that led to this didn't show much respect for the forum providers, did it? Much like the rant you posted didn't. Do you really think it's a one-way street?

QUOTE: ...the Internet is a beast that has a life of it's own, to expect absolute control and stifling of opinion is wishful thinking.

You're right. A website owner can only exercize absolute control over their own website. Not the entire internet. Oh, wait! That's what we're talking about - Kalmbach maintaining control over it's own website! Kinda blows the heck out of your argument as it appears you intended it, doesn't it? But still, in the overall sense you are right. So start your own website and post pretty much whatever you want.

QUOTE: Enough of my soapbox.

Here we are in total agreement.

It's also posts like yours that caused the lock-down. NOT just trolls. I believe he mentioned in there somewhere flame-wars? Ah-hem.

'Nuf said.

[MisterBeasley]

Y'know, I kind of like the "nominal fee" approach, the more I think about it. Simply an entry fee of a dollar. Economically, it won't stop anyone, but it will inhibit the "multiple personality" problem we had last week.

The big thing it does, though, is provide real traceability back to the user. On the Internet, you simply can't pay cash. Credit card or PayPal only, and the provider gets to know who you really are. It's hard when all you've got is an IP address to block, but it's easy to block a credit card number or PayPal account.

I suppose you could even go to court and get a restraining order against someone who was really causing problems, once you know who they really are. That would be a real threat, because it would follow a troll for a long time.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

....I have subscriptions to Trains, Model Railroader and Classic Trains, as well as almost every How-To book that Kalmbach has put out.

And if they stop sending you the magazines for which you've paid, then you'll have a legitimate reason to gripe.

QUOTE: So in a sense they are being paid by me and many others who are subscribers, and purchasers of their products. Without or [sic] $$ going to them, they wouldn't have the capability to offer a "free" service if we hadn't done our part.

What a load of self-serving tripe. You never paid for the privilege of using the forums - if Kalmbach wants to shut them down for any reason, or for no reason, that is their right. Unless they made some written obligation to you to keep them up?

QUOTE: I think what angers many is exactly why only the Model forums seem to be down, the trolls can attack the other forums if the issue is keeping them out.

Did you ever stop to think that Terry shut down every forum HE controls? He's the editor / publisher of Model Railroader, and I believe, the publisher of CTT and Garden Railways. All those forums are shut down. Wow! What a strange coincidence! Maybe you should be glad the other publishers didn't do the same thing. But stay tuned, folks - it ain't over yet, I bet!!!

QUOTE: ... so I while grateful for the forums, am also a little miffed that we are out an outlet for our hobby. I simple note on MR and the other forums stating what was going on, is a small thing that would have carried a much better respect for us.

The sort of posting that was going on that led to this didn't show much respect for the forum providers, did it? Much like the rant you posted didn't. Do you really think it's a one-way street?

QUOTE: ...the Internet is a beast that has a life of it's own, to expect absolute control and stifling of opinion is wishful thinking.

You're right. A website owner can only exercize absolute control over their own website. Not the entire internet. Oh, wait! That's what we're talking about - Kalmbach maintaining control over it's own website! Kinda blows the heck out of your argument as it appears you intended it, doesn't it? But still, in the overall sense you are right. So start your own website and post pretty much whatever you want.

QUOTE: Enough of my soapbox.

Here we are in total agreement.

Again, another excellent post telling people they are not allowed an opinion or response. In you home you must be the boss. Bully for you [tdn]

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by uspscsx

It's also posts like yours that caused the lock-down. NOT just trolls. I believe he mentioned in there somewhere flame-wars? Ah-hem.

'Nuf said.

Bull! Where did I flame anyone? I simply took dthurman's comments apart and analyzed them. I didn't attack the individual at all (well, maybe my last line was a bit of a cheap shot - if so I'm apologize). I could have attacked very easily. But I simply showed how his comments were off the mark. Yeah, I let a little sarcasm seep through my answer, but it was very little, and it helped make the point for anyone who actually was interested in any other viewpoint.

You should learn what flames are. According to what you wrote, your comment quoted above would be flames. And YOUR comment would apply to yourself more than to me in this case.

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

Again, another excellent post telling people they are not allowed an opinion or response.

And where exactly did I say that? Read what I actually wrote, then respond. Want to try again?

By the way - at this point I consider this just a "spirited discussion." If either of my protagonists sees it as any more personal than that, say the word and I'll ask for an immediate truce. I'm not trying to seriously twist anyone up, here.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Guys, fighting amongst ourselves is not helping our cause. I don't like the decision to lock the forums any more than you do. I think it sends the message that the troll has won. I also don't like the fact that hundreds of good members are being punished for the deeds of one bad one, but it isn't my decision to make.

It's Monday morning, the staff has had a peaceful weekend, and my guess is that they are discussing what to do as I type this.

In the meantime please quit griping, bickering, whining, emailing, etc. It serves no useful purpose.