Trackside with Erik and Mike, Vol. 19: November 8, 2004

[gannbb1]

Had to go for Erick's shot. Being former railroader, I regretfully think of all the dramatic scenes that passed before me unrecorded. This shot shows some of the beauty that is a part of the appeal of railroading.

That said, this audience is a hard core "give me details of the train" railfan bunch so I can understand the reluctance to vote for artsy pictures. And that is OK.

I vote NO on "fixing" the pictures. I just went on a week's photo shoot with a graduate of Chicago Institute of Art. The thing he taught me was "Get it right in the viewfinder"

If you want to have a new category for "after" pictures that is OK, but the right stuff is to make it right when it comes out of the camera.

BTW I enjoy the background info as part of the campaigning BUT keeping the name of the photographer and the rationale of the photo secret requires a more thorough evaluation of the photo. And that can make ALL of us better railfan photographers!!

gannb

[elangeland]

I liked the warmth of Erik's shot; the blue tinge on the locomotive in Mike's shot was just too bothersome.

With regards to digital manipulation, I don't think there is anything wrong with touching up exposure or white balance. For any more significant manipulation, such as removing a badly-placed telegraph pole, I think both before and after shots should be required, and manipulated shots should never be up against unmanipulated shots. There is nothing to say that the rules for manipulation need to be the same each week; you could allow any desired manipulation one week and none at all the next.

This brings me to my second thought: I also think that these "competitions" ought to have a theme each week. It is hard to objectively compare two totally different pictures, such as this week with a sunrise sihouette action shot and a static night shot.

[npapaletsos]

I am trully sorry Mike, but I have to vote for Eric's picture this time. Not that I do not like Mike's picture but this morning shot is really very nice with the sun next to the train. Looking forward for the next contest.
Nikos
Thessaloniki, Macedonia - Greece

[mikeyuhas]

Wow! We seem to have opened the proverbial can of worms on this one. Ordinarily, I refrain from commenting on this forum's comments, but I wanted to come in and help clarify something now, instead of waiting until Monday for our recap.

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

This site showed the image that Mike took of the NS and the smoking UP unit both 'before & after'. Sure, the 'after' looks better. But perhaps the shot could have been more properly exposed at the time of image capture. There are likely subtleties that will forever be missing because the 'original' was not properly exposed. Then post-processing would not have been neccessary. And you can say what you want about image processing, but I feel that the better the original, the better the result.

I wholeheartedly agree with Zardoz that "the better the original, the better the result," but in the case of the smoky train photo, "correct" exposure in the camera would not have resulted in an altogether great photo. Here's why: Not only did I lighten the shadows (which I agree wouldn't have been an issue if I had opened the shutter a half stop or so), I also darkened the highlights. An unadjusted photo shot at the wider aperture would have yielded an all-white sky -- with the exception of that horrible black exhaust, of course. That would have looked yicky, in my opinion.

Incidentally, there's an amazing amount of information hidden in the shadows of any photo taken with a Digital Rebel (and other cameras, too), even in photos shot in JPEG (not RAW) format. The shadow/highlight tool in Photoshop is particularly effective in enhancing those details. My jaw dropped the first time I used it.

We'll have more discussion on this in our recap on Monday. Thanks for voting -- and thanks again for everyone's comments!

~ Mike

[JoeUmp]

Had to go with Mike this week. As for retouched photos, I thought that this forum was so we could see what could be done with the camera. Go ahead and show the touch ups with the results of voting page. Just my humble opinion.

Joe

[Anonymous]

To me, neither is a great pic, but I went for the night shot, tho the colors don't look right to me. As far as corrections, OK by me, as long as the original subject isn't messed with: a little enlightening and attitude adjustment is fine, but no more.
Bill

[Anonymous]

One vote for Erik*s photo [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

This One was the hardest one yet!

[Anonymous]

I chose Erik's shot. I saw passion in this shot. A new beginning; power in motion; a man -made creature creeping out of the cool shadows of night, warming in the rising sun to run through a busy, blistering day. Don't ever forget the art of railroads, Erik. Your eyes will see the hearts desire. Keep up the great work!

Ken Morrison

[StephenDx]

This vote went to Mike. Speaks of being ready for another run on the iron. Liked Erik's shot but there it did not grab me the same. On the +ve side, those are always difficult shots to obtain.
Retouching: not when this is a trains column. Then again if it helps bring out some otherwise hidden detail YES, but the original should be provided beside or as a link so the difference can be seen.
Calendar: great idea. 2006 is not a surprise to me being x-printing trade. Is there a thread to vote for this yet?[:D]

[Anonymous]

I went with Eriks sunset shot, its a good photo. Mike's night shot is rather troubling for me since it technically over exposed so you can't read the number boards. Also doing that causes the 2 different temperatures of light to be exaggerated. Color temp is also wrong causing the incandescent locomotive lights to look blue instead of their normal warm color.
Finally on the subject of "tweaking" your work in Photoshop I firmly in the camp of "great photos are made" not just pu***he button and live with what you get. Shooting RAW is a revelation allowing you to make decisions that should not be made in the field. I gave a presentation at Gorge Rail last spring and laid it all out.
Paul Petersen

[Anonymous]

Go ahead and edit, IF, you tell what you did so we can try it.

[Anonymous]

I LIKE THE SUN! As for image manipulation...I thought that was the whole point of digital photography? Not manipulating the picture in itself but lighting......WHY NOT![8D]

[fuzzybroken]

I had a hard time picking which shot to vote for -- I don't like night photography!!! I like details, DETAILS!!! Nonetheless, although I prefer a WC picture to a CP picture, I thought Mike's picture was a little too washed-out looking, with all the lighted areas being super-white. An otherwise nice shot, especially had it been taken in the day...

So I voted for Erik's photo. Despite the less-than ideal lighting, I can still see the nose of the locomotive (including the number boards), and the reflection of the sun off the rails looks nice too. Overall, the picture has a lot of depth for the low light present.

Regarding modified photos: I modify almost all of the photos that I put on my website. (http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken) The way I feel about it is, it's still the same locomotive/boxcar/covered hopper/whatever that I took a picture of, yet by adjusting brightness, contrast, and sharpness, if I can get a better presentation of my picture out of it, I go ahead and do it! So basically, as long as you're not adding headlights or other details (playing Franken-photographer!) a modified digital photo is just fine with me.

-Mark Hintz
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[zardoz]

Fuzzy - I agree completely with you regarding retouching. As I said, I've done it a few times myself; I just do not like to rely on it.

IMHO, since this is a thread is based on a PHOTO contest, not a digital image manipulation contest, in this instance retouching (including cropping) should be a no-no, or as another poster indicated, only allowed if the "before" shot was also included along with info on how the editing was done.

Perhaps there could be a contest that only considers the final image, regardless of how it was obtained. That way, an artist would be free do use any and all of their talents.