Will the 4-8-8-4 Union Pacific Big Boy ever return to rails?

[Anonymous]

I sense we all share a love of all things steam From the fireless all the way to the big boy.

Any way we can run steam is a strike against a possible future generations losing this art.

Similar to how we see "Tall Ships" as they are preserving the art of sail.

[dmoore74]

One problem not directly mentioned is where do you turn a Big Boy when it gets to the end of its trip. UP had to lengthen turntables when the Big Boy was put in to service. Where are those extra long turntables now?

[railman]

I would guess it would have to be "wyed"...but even those are getting scarce around the country. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[n2mopac]

I seem to remember a few years back some group aquired a Big Boy and considered restoring it to run some excursions, but no railroad would let them run the thing. That had to do with weight and wear and tear on the rails, ties and such. It isn't just a matter of could it be done but also of whether it is practically feasible. When UP's Challenger went through my town on its way to the Super Bowl UP spend 2 days inspecting and repairing every switch, grade crossing, etc along the way. The weight of those old large steamers is just more than todays more high-tech rail and equipment was designed for. We can wish and dream, but I certainly would not get my hopes up.

Ron

[railman]

Again...the march of progress. "Better" rail, "High" tech, etc. Makes you wonder what we're gaining when we can't at least replicate the past.

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

Again...the march of progress. "Better" rail, "High" tech, etc. Makes you wonder what we're gaining when we can't at least replicate the past.

Not wanting to start any arguments here, but I think we have gained a lot. I would love to see a Big Boy run again too, but today's diesels generate more horsepower and more tractive effort with far less weight on the rails, produce far greater fuel effeciency, can run on lighter rail requiring less steel, and todays "hight tech" control systems mean far less derailments, collisions, and other accidents than ever before. This is all worth the price.

Ron

[route_rock]

Lighter rail??? What are you people smoking! Diesels are lighter,yes than a big boy but some GP units are heavier than steamers. The SD 90 is the only one to acheive the 6,000 HP,Its no lightweight folks. Lets talk reality here.Back in the day there were section crews for all that jointed 39 foot rail laid at 100lbs to the yard.Or even lighter 70# rail makes no difference.Cars had friction bearings,and steam was king.I can run a big boy on any mainline in america.Mainlines now are welded rail usually ,136# 140# per yard in some places,concrete ties that are more stable and able to take the weight and shock of coal trains of today(100 ton cars versues 50 ton cars) So that whole lighter rail is hogwa***he reciprocating motinon of a steamer is hard on tracks yes but if it was that bad steam would never have made it as far as it did.Why do you think rail has gotten heavier?The first rails were 2x4's with iron straps stapled in place.Plus TE in DC units plus adhesion has never been very high.Some small steamers have better adhesion than certain GP units.The whole CTC systems are what helped with collisions.Very few locos have the fancy sat tracking.Plus Sperry rail has helped eliminate derailments by its ulreasounduing of rail.AC units are the ones that finally got close to steam.And now most roads are shying away Hence the SD70ace being bought now rather than SD 90's. Will a Big Boy return?I doubt it.But I would love to see it.

[espeefoamer]

Steam locomotives,especially at high speed,pounded the heck out ofthe rails,and also knocked them out of alignment.Railroads had track crews constantly out on the line repairing and aligning the tracks.This was one more reason diesels replaced steam.

[Anonymous]

Progress? All those stories about steamers running well over the century mark, pulling heavy weight cars with conventional brakes. How about the Milwaukee Hi's that ran from Chicago to Milwaukee in 75 mintes vs.90 minutes today for Amtrak. And that was on jointed rail with no computerized maintenance? Or once financing was arranged, building the transcon from scratch using carts, mules. picks, shovels, and black powder in about the same time in takes to build 15 miles of Interstate today with modern machines. etc? And 6,000 hp diesels, steam had that much in the 30s. There are less derailments and accidents today, but there are also a lot less trains.

Yes, sometimes I wonder about progress, but don't take this tongue-in-check rant too seriously.

[Anonymous]

I would love to see the return of a Big Boy! As for it actually happening, well! I would have to be through private money since railroads are less about public awareness and publicity than they once were.

[Anonymous]

Some of what I have heard is true, other parts not true.

Firstly, to set the record straight:
1. A Big Boy is capable of negotiating a 20 degree curve. I do not know of any mainline curves sharper than this.

2. A Big Boy is 132 feet long. There are two turntables longer than this, both of which were built for the Big Boys. However, it is possible for Big Boys to ride on smaller turntables with some overhang, as they often did.

3. When a Big Boy is running, it consumes between 9 and 12 tons of coal per hour.

4. On the Union Pacific, Big Boys were cleared to operate all the way to Los Angeles

5. I personally believe the Big Boy to be the largest. Go here for my reasons: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=9683&REPLY_ID=65383#65383.

Moving on:
Firstly, I regard the notion that an operating Big Boy would cause much damage to track as absurd. Railroads operated thousands of locomotives on thousands of trains all day, every day. Somehow, the Santa Fe managed to maintain track on Cajon Pass, where dozens of trains would operate daily, often with six or seven locomotives per train. Now compare this to what one locomotive, operating over varied tracks around a system, with a relatively short train (twenty passenger cars as opposed to five miles of PFE reefers) would do, especially since it would probably not operate over the same line for a number of years or decades. I regard the turning problem as little more than an excuse, as most major cities still have at least one wye. I similarly regard the fuel problem. Granted, the conversion did not work, but that was largely because they only used one burner. Locomotives smaller than Big Boys frequently had two or more burners. Why didn't the shops continue? Because, I believe, coal was still available.

The skeptics among this topic may be wondering, why then, has a Big Boy not been restored? In my view, this is a problem of restoring the locomotive, not what to do once it is restored. I would be a fool to deny that restoring a Big Boy would be exceedingly expensive, and probably lenghty. If enough money were to be found, I am confident that eventually a Big Boy could and would be restored. Once that is completed, railfans would probably flock to see a member of the world's largest locomotive class, under operation.

I know many of you will disagree with what I have said, and I do not know if a Big Boy will be restored in my lifetime. I intend no offence to anyone, and I hope none is taken by anybody.

Most sincerely and respectfully yours,
Daniel Parks

[route_rock]

Very well put Daniel and very well thought out I might add.I think every generation of workers loses something.I am sure if we brought Casey Jones ahead in time to now he would be saying"What do you mean you cant run em that close togther?"or that fast anymore. I forgot about the Hi's running over 100 mph on that run.jointed rail TT&TO old school! Now I think we know what our grandfathers mean when they say we are growing soft.

[Anonymous]

Dear route_rock,
Thank you. You have a point there about every generation losing something. I had forgotten about the Hiawatha's high speed on "stick rail."

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[Anonymous]

I do believe that someone will get bright idea and someday spend there millions that they have saved just to restore one of those Big Boy Locomotives.It will happen "someday" you all just wait. And believe me never say "It can't ever happen" because it can. look at it this way the UP has kept the 3985 going this long and im damn sure the a Big Boy can run again........Someday. Someone just has to have the guts and the money to take on such a huge project.

[Anonymous]

I don't see why they're not still using Big Boys. The Big Boys could generate almost 6000 HP. It took us almost 50 years to achieve that with the new AC6000CW. I know it sounds crazy, but a Big Boy or an Allegheny would be more useful than a string of diesels on the head of a train.