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Athearn Axle/Gear for Proto Geeps

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Athearn Axle/Gear for Proto Geeps
Posted by davekelly on Sunday, November 06, 2005 2:01 PM
I know that someone has posted the answer to this before, but I seem to be unable to locate the appropriate thread - so please forgive me for asking a question that has most likely been answered before.

I have several of the older Proto Geeps - the ones that everyone has a problem with the cracked gears. While I haven't experienced this problem, it most likely is only a matter of time and I would much rather be proactive and swap out the gear/axles now while I am converting them over to DCC. Several folks have suggested that Athearn axle/gears are an appropriate drop in replacement. Does anyone have the Athearn part number for these so that I can get a bunch and start the conversion?

Thanks!

Dave
If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 06, 2005 2:23 PM
I would advise keeping the Proto wheels and stub axles - Athearn's are sintered iron rather than nickle-silver and tend to pick up more dirt. They should push-fit into the Athearn gears as the two designs are obviously related.
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60024
Posted by mlehman on Sunday, November 06, 2005 2:24 PM
Dave,
The part # I have for this is 60024. I haven't ordered any yet, so I can't confirm this, but I made a post-it note of it last time this was discussed.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL

Mike Lehman

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 06, 2005 3:54 PM
Part #60024 is the correct # for the gear only.
Part #40019 is the complete wheel assembly.
The L/L wheels will not fit the Athearn gear without redrilling it to the correct metric size first.
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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:01 PM
This may help you as well.
http://www.nmra.org.au/Hints/P2K/P2K.html

Larry

SSRy

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Posted by trainboyH16-44 on Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:01 PM
How do you tell if the gears are cracked?
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60024
Posted by mlehman on Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:54 PM
trainboyH16-44,
If your P2K GP loco makes a chunk-chunk-chunk noise, the gear is broken. I've got a couple with this problem and it is a quite distinct noise.

Ray,
Thanks for the tip that the LL wheels won't work in the LL wheels without modification. How difficult is this? What size metric drill is needed? I've got a drillpress, but it's not really modeling grade, as it's a bit on the large size with it's 1/2" capacity chuck.

Also, I have a Northwest Shortline part number, 37141-4, as replacement wheels that will work to substitute for either LL or Athearn. Does anyone know if the Athearn 60024 gears fit the NWSL wheels without modification?

I'd like to get some parts in to get the deadline reduced.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL

Mike Lehman

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Sunday, November 06, 2005 6:03 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Ray Marinaccio

Part #60024 is the correct # for the gear only.
Part #40019 is the complete wheel assembly.
The L/L wheels will not fit the Athearn gear without redrilling it to the correct metric size first.


I just put a LL wheel on an Athearn gear without a problem (and have done this dozens of times). NO DRILLING. It's a press fit as it should be otherwise the wheel could slip or twist itself out of gauge.

Here are the measurements for the axles: Athearn : 0.0925"
LL: 0.0930"

That's only 5 tenthousandths of an inch difference. Not enough to worry about in this situation.
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Posted by davekelly on Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:01 PM
You guys are the greatest!!!! Within only a few hours I've gotten the part number I was looking for, a website that describes the problem/solution and a bunch of other information. Does it get any better than this? [:D][:D][:D]
If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 07, 2005 9:40 AM
Modelmaker51,
Let us know how long those Athearn gears last .
.0005" may not sound like much, but WILL cause the gear to crack.
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Posted by olequa on Monday, November 07, 2005 3:07 PM
I wrote to NWSL recently to ask them about replacement gears. They replied that they can furni***he gears OK. I think he quoted me $3 each. Of course you could replace your wheels with NWSL wheels at the same time.

I also have swapped gears out of an old Athearn loco into a P2K loco with no problem.
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Posted by jrbernier on Monday, November 07, 2005 4:07 PM
ghofmann,

NWSL axle gear for Athearn/P2K engines? I know they make brass gears, but I was not aware of a plastic gear.

Ray,

The Athearn axle/gear seems to work just fine. I have swapped out wheel sets and axle/hub gears and the Athearns do not seem to crack.

Jim Bernier

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by Don Gibson on Monday, November 07, 2005 4:42 PM
Earlier Life Like Proto 2000 product's were made in different factory's - and had different axle dimension's, in Metric. One US wheel maker, when asked to make wheel replacement's, said "which axle measurement?" I found 3 different axle measurement' in 4 P2K engine's, and when I substituted Athearn's gear's they didn't fit.

ATHEARN's BB axle gear's were were all made to a single (presumably US) measurement. That was then and now is now, and perhap's P2K has met US standard's - but I doubt it.

Let me hear from those trying to sub Athearn gear's - and either NWSL or JB wheelset's - in their specific LL product's. What fit's what?

Did the Leopard change his spot's?
Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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Posted by modelmaker51 on Monday, November 07, 2005 9:37 PM
Of the couple of hundred I have changed out over the past 10 years for both myself, my friends and my customers, I have NEVER had an Athearn gear fail. And we run our trains hard, 3 to 4 loco consists pulling 80 to 100-plus weighted cars.

The plastic that Athearn uses for their BBs is softer than the engineering plastics (like Delrin) that are used by P2K, Kato, Atlas, etc., and they were designed to be a "press" fit for the axles, not a "slip" fit. FYI: A press fit is when the hole is slightly smaller than the object you are inserting. All the metal wheel sets used in models are press fits. BTW: The Northwest Short Line wheels sets we have been substituting for the Athearn sintered iron sets for 20 years or more are also .0005" larger than the Athearn's and they have never caused any cracked axles either.

The substitution was actually recommended to me by one of the LL technicians before they had recieved replacement stock. The problem with those P2K gears as explained to me by the tech was that a plastic-incompatable oil was used in those early runs that reacted with the plastic gears and made them crack under stress (the press-fit of the axle).

As far as the different axle diameters goes, I have not run into that issue with the P2K geeps and FAs. They were all the same.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 07, 2005 11:23 PM
I'll stop posting here.
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Posted by olequa on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:06 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier

ghofmann,

NWSL axle gear for Athearn/P2K engines? I know they make brass gears, but I was not aware of a plastic gear.

Jim Bernier


I went back and checked the email I got from them. It said...
"NWSL can supply the Athearn axle gear on special order (no stock number, direct order only) for $3 each plus $3 per order shipping."
Sounds like they are supplying the Athearn part., not making it themselves.
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Posted by jrbernier on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 7:52 AM
The 12 or so gears I have swappd out on P2K engines are from GP9/7 engines. These are 'early' GP9 ph3's, ph2's, and GP7's.....

Jim Bernier

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 8:54 AM
And here I thought I could she some light on the subject, yall beat me!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted by hd8091 on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:11 AM
I just replaced the gears on an early GP-18, and 6 FA-2's with the Athearn gears with no problem. It was a tight fit but then you don't want the axles to spin in the gears anyway.
Tom
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Posted by ICRR1964 on Thursday, November 10, 2005 8:28 PM
As I stated in a earlier post, that the athearn gears are pretty much a good fix for P2K GP's. You got a new P2K GP, put it through the grinder and try and crack the gears, put a heavy load on the engine and it will crack the gears never the less! Any P2K Gp's I by get a gear replacement asap from the box! The Athearn gears work great with the P2K wheels, I have had no problems at all after the upgrade! Wish LL would have caught this problem earlier in the beginning, but it seems they still have this same problem, good thing people like us are here to do the R&D that was not done in the factory. P2K are great engines, with a small flaw that can be corrected very easy!
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Posted by davekelly on Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:41 PM
Okay guys. I ordered a bunch of axle/gears and gears from Horizon. The set of twelve axle/gears was about $20.00 and the gears alone were something like 6 for 2 bucks. I'm sure I could have gotten them somewhere cheaper, but what the heck right? At least it seems like a better deal than what NWSL is reselling them for.
If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.
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Posted by ICRR1964 on Friday, November 11, 2005 7:51 PM
Dave, I buy all my ATHEARN replacement parts from a web site called:
discounttrainsonline.com
They have allot of Athearn partsfor engines and freight cars, shipping is $6.95 for what ever you order, I am sure you might find something else you may need for yourself too so the $6.95 will not be to bad.[:)]
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Posted by davekelly on Friday, November 11, 2005 8:11 PM
ICRR,

Thanks for the info. I have purchased stuff from discounttrainsonline.com and have been pleased with their service and prices. Your comment that I might find something else I may need is 100 percent dead on accurate - which is why I didn't order through them this time, but rather went to the Horizon site with the express purpose of getting the axles and gears. Let me explain. Right now I've blown my budget for a couple of months and I think I'm about 5 or 10 years in debt to "early Christmas" and "early birthday presents." Just got a DCC system, so of course I had to get some decoders, some sound decoders, speakers, led's and oh yeah, gotta get one of those BLI locomotives . . . well you get the idea. My fear was that had I gone to discounttrains, or internettrains, or Klein that I wouldn't be able to control myself ("well, I'll just add this .. . .. . and oh wait, gotta get one of those too) and get a bunch of stuff I need. Okay, maybe not need but want. They mean the same right? Am I the only one with this inability to control onself at times?
If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.
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Posted by ICRR1964 on Monday, November 14, 2005 7:51 AM
LOLOLOL!!! I hear you, I am the same way! Always plan on just buying what I need end end up buying everything that catches my eye! You would not beleive how much stuff I got still in unopened boxes just sitting around! Going to get rid of allot of stuff "again" on ebay! I do this every year, buy a bunch of loco's, parts or whatever, then sit on them for 6 month's! What am I thinking? Its fun though, right?
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Posted by davekelly on Monday, November 14, 2005 8:56 AM
BIG TIME FUN!!
If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.

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