IC_Tom richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL I did not shop at ModelTrainStuff once they closed the retail store, that web site was terrible to search. I have no interest in "browsing", I want to look up specific stuff and buy it. I don't pre-order much, I'm sure I can count my lifetime pre-orders on my fingers. Interesting. I always thought the Model Train Stuff has a very good website. As for pre-orders, I have yet to do a single one. Rich Agreed. Model Train Stuff's search engine and website was one of the best, but Hatton's broke it. That was the first thing I noticed back in Sept-Oct. I've only done 2 or 3 pre-orders in the last four years and regretted all of them.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL I did not shop at ModelTrainStuff once they closed the retail store, that web site was terrible to search. I have no interest in "browsing", I want to look up specific stuff and buy it. I don't pre-order much, I'm sure I can count my lifetime pre-orders on my fingers. Interesting. I always thought the Model Train Stuff has a very good website. As for pre-orders, I have yet to do a single one. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I did not shop at ModelTrainStuff once they closed the retail store, that web site was terrible to search. I have no interest in "browsing", I want to look up specific stuff and buy it. I don't pre-order much, I'm sure I can count my lifetime pre-orders on my fingers.
I did not shop at ModelTrainStuff once they closed the retail store, that web site was terrible to search. I have no interest in "browsing", I want to look up specific stuff and buy it.
I don't pre-order much, I'm sure I can count my lifetime pre-orders on my fingers.
Interesting. I always thought the Model Train Stuff has a very good website. As for pre-orders, I have yet to do a single one.
Rich
Agreed. Model Train Stuff's search engine and website was one of the best, but Hatton's broke it. That was the first thing I noticed back in Sept-Oct.
I've only done 2 or 3 pre-orders in the last four years and regretted all of them.
I preordered two BLI stealth Reading T-1's from the original run at Klein's when the store was still on Gay Street.
I preordered the new Bowser RS-3's in C&O and WESTERN MARYLAND, got both road numbers of both roadnames. That only took 25 months.
I know there were a few others, can't think of them now.
Never regretted any, seldom ever regret any purchase. In fact I can count on my fingers the number of trains I have purchased and then resold.
For the most part, I am a very disciplined buyer.
Sheldon
My biggest website complaint, by far, is when I put something in my shopping cart and then have to restart my search all over again. Well designed websites have a "continue shopping" button that takes you back to the list you were browsing previously. It's extremely frustrating to have to start all over again selecting filter options. It saves me money because I feel less inclined to shop but not a good thing for the store.
Every time I tried to search that site, I had trouble finding anything close to what I was looking for. Maybe they fixed it sometime after I gave up using it?
But I like sites that have catagory buttons, so if a direct search does not work, you can go:
HO - Bachmann - Locomotives - steam - and by that point a fairly short list to scan thru.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
richhotrain A customer mailing list may be treated as Goodwill, but it is not a balance sheet issue. Model Train Stuff undoubtedly maintained a such a list, and Factory Direct Hobbies will find it useful, particularly with the retention of the MTS customer service manager and other MTS staff members. Rich
A customer mailing list may be treated as Goodwill, but it is not a balance sheet issue. Model Train Stuff undoubtedly maintained a such a list, and Factory Direct Hobbies will find it useful, particularly with the retention of the MTS customer service manager and other MTS staff members.
Goodwill is listed on a balance sheet as an intangible asset and is very important in an acquisition.
Rick
I used to have an LHS nearby that was a Walthers dealer, so I could buy stuff through him and get it a week later, no shipping even on very small orders. I only went to other vendors if Walthers didn't have something. I actually got great service from ModelTrainStuff and Trainworld on discontinued items, like subway trains and my carfloat kits, often saving money as well. A couple of times I ordered items by phone from Trainworld and they arrived the next afternoon in the Boston burbs.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Douglas, you just had to go and bring up GE.
Alton Junction
I get that. And I'm not assessing Mr. Grubba's business decision, I know nothing about it. Just pointing out that prices paid for brands and lists can turn bad when the service guy quits because the busness is no longer in Cockeysville, and the customers leave because of different pricing and services.
Just saying that business has to be earned every day by offering good prices and services every day. Brands and lists don't really exist for long by themselves, and the value can change tomorrow.
BTW, is GE still a good brand? LOL.
- Douglas
I'm actually a financial analyst by training. In mergers, the customer list gets booked as an Intangible Asset...called Goodwill, because there is no way to value it. Its based soley on judgment. The amount is basically nothing more than the excess price the buyer agreed to buy the company for...excess over hard assets.
Brand names are intangible assets too. No way to value a unique brand. Its just a negotiated amount...a plug figure on the balance sheet.
Businesses overvalue that excess price all of the time. Amortizing that amount is an expense digs into profits over the ten year amortization period, but the customers can leave for better pricing and service elsewhere, immediately.
The shops that offers better price and service just stole that other guy's customer list that he paid a lot for.
It comes down to who offers the best service and price each business day, from day one. Customer lists become stale very quickly, generally because business has to be earned every day.
Doughless If there were brick an mortar shops, it would certainly take a lot of time to drive to each to then decide which had a better price...then go back to that shop to buy. If so, I'd probably do that intitially, then settle on the shop that generally had the best prices....and find myself loyal to that shop continuously without bothering to drive to the others anymore.
If there were brick an mortar shops, it would certainly take a lot of time to drive to each to then decide which had a better price...then go back to that shop to buy. If so, I'd probably do that intitially, then settle on the shop that generally had the best prices....and find myself loyal to that shop continuously without bothering to drive to the others anymore.
Doughless I probably do, but that's part of what a good business has to decide if they want to plunk down cash to buy a "mailing list".
I probably do, but that's part of what a good business has to decide if they want to plunk down cash to buy a "mailing list".
rrebell For shopping there is price and safety and honesty in online. Many of us have been burned by fraud so we go to certain sites and certain sites do offer different item lists.
For shopping there is price and safety and honesty in online. Many of us have been burned by fraud so we go to certain sites and certain sites do offer different item lists.
IC_Tom In my experience, Trainworld almost never has the lowest price. not, the sales tax and shipping completely negate any discount. Lombard is the most consistently lowest in my experience.
In my experience, Trainworld almost never has the lowest price. not, the sales tax and shipping completely negate any discount.
Lombard is the most consistently lowest in my experience.
For all of the hundreds, if not thousands, of model railroading items that I have purchased over the last 20+ years, I have never bought a single item from Trainworld.
nealknows They changed their name as they carry RC equipment, Bandai, plastic models and more. Makes sense to me..
They changed their name as they carry RC equipment, Bandai, plastic models and more. Makes sense to me..
Douglas, I'm not that loyal to any shop, but I do hate "the hunt".
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, Gilberts, Mainline, Strasburg, and Nicolas Smith, Yankee Dabbler, Trains Toys & Hobbies in Willmington, Star Hobby in Annapolis.
Yes, Gilberts, Mainline, Strasburg, and Nicolas Smith, Yankee Dabbler, Trains Toys & Hobbies in Willmington, Star Hobby in Annapolis.
I remember Mitchell's being great for their annual sale but I didn't find much interest in going to Doug's once he took over. I did, however, find some bottles of Floquil there a few years ago.
Nicholas Smith is a place I usually find something to buy and I go there whenever I can find the time when I am in the Philadelphia area but I wouldn't spend a day to drive there and back without another stop. There is no way I am paying the bridge tolls to go over to Yankee Dabler (plus the extra drive time.)
If MTS comes back as a viable option I will take a look but I have most of what I need/want. I mostly find myself looking for scratchbuilding supplies in small quantities these days so a LHS is a better option if they stock Evergreen and other brands. I have actually had a little luck at Hobby Lobby and Michaels for some things.
ATLANTIC CENTRALYou obviously have more time than I do. OK, I will shop around a bit, but 7-8 web sites, Since the inception of online model train purchasing I would bet I have not bought from that many different vendors total - not counting each individual on Ebay. Why shop that much when Trainworld and ToyTrainHeaven almost always have the lowest price - and then there is the question of who actually has the item in stock. But since I am not always looking for the newest releases, that effects my buying habits as well. I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures. It is the way of the world, companies come, and go, and get sold...... to other companies who get to use the old name..... Sheldon
I probably do, but that's part of what a good business has to decide if they want to plunk down cash to buy a "mailing list". There are customers with no time, and others with a lot of it to shop around.
Its an investment in time. It doesn't take me long to navigate what are now familiar sites, and some are more of a pain than others for sure.
I'm not a new release hound either. That was just an example of the kind of annoying messages I get emailed when I sign up for business's customer loyalty (IOW, pepper you with annoying emails about stuff you'd never consider buying) programs. I'd just prefer to stay out of their loops and hit their 7 or 8 websites on my terms when I have the time. Being a freelancer and a cast-off short line modeler, there is NEVER any product I need right now before its sold out.
And price is not the sole issue to visit several websites. Obviously some still hold NOS while others are sold out, so it takes some time to find the shop that still has a particular item. Its not like I would shop at only MBK or TW, then be SOL if they were sold out. Goodness, is anybody THAT loyal?
If there were brick an mortar shops, it would certainly take a lot of time to drive to each to then decide which had a better price...then go back to that shop to buy. If so, I'd probably do that intitially, then settle on the shop that generally had the best prices....and find myself loyal to that shop continuously without bothering to drive to the others anymore. Online shops selling the same product makes distances totally irrelevant in most cases. And I certainly don't know any of these owners personally, since they are likely miles away from me, so my loyalty comes down to availability and price on any given day.
IC_Tom,
I will try once more to respond if this site will let me.
Agreed, TrainWorld has "evolved" some. To be fair, I'm likely not buying as much, or the same type of stuff you are. After 55 years I have most of what I need or want.
Tangent and Scale Trains are not on my radar, they have very in my era, and even less that is of interest.
I have zero interest in anything outside the era and theme of my layout.
As you mentioned, depth of inventory counts for something.
For shopping there is price and safety and honesty in online. Many of us have been burned by fraud so we go to certain sites and certain sites do offer different item lists. Train World was always the cheapest for certain items.
hbgatsf ATLANTIC CENTRAL I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures. Sheldon, you are not all that far from me and a reasonalbe drive would cover much of the same territory. I can think of Gilbert's, White Rose, Mainline, and TTH (although that is a bit far for you.) What am I missing? Strausburg, The Station, Cool Trains, and Draudes come to mind but I am not sure I would put them in the same category. There are probably shops to the south of you that I am not familiar with.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures.
I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures.
Sheldon, you are not all that far from me and a reasonalbe drive would cover much of the same territory. I can think of Gilbert's, White Rose, Mainline, and TTH (although that is a bit far for you.) What am I missing? Strausburg, The Station, Cool Trains, and Draudes come to mind but I am not sure I would put them in the same category. There are probably shops to the south of you that I am not familiar with.
Willmington, Philli/South Jersey is an easy drive for me. So is Annapolis.
This web site continues to get harder to use, not sure how much longer I can put up with it. I was going to respond more, just don't gave the time or patience.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL You obviously have more time than I do. OK, I will shop around a bit, but 7-8 web sites, Since the inception of online model train purchasing I would bet I have not bought from that many different vendors total - not counting each individual on Ebay. Why shop that much when Trainworld and ToyTrainHeaven almost always have the lowest price - and then there is the question of who actually has the item in stock. But since I am not always looking for the newest releases, that effects my buying habits as well. I still shop at 8-10 brick and mortar stores that are a reasonable Saturday afternoon drive from me - several with good prices or lots of old out of production treasures. It is the way of the world, companies come, and go, and get sold...... to other companies who get to use the old name..... Sheldon
You obviously have more time than I do. OK, I will shop around a bit, but 7-8 web sites, Since the inception of online model train purchasing I would bet I have not bought from that many different vendors total - not counting each individual on Ebay.
Why shop that much when Trainworld and ToyTrainHeaven almost always have the lowest price - and then there is the question of who actually has the item in stock.
But since I am not always looking for the newest releases, that effects my buying habits as well.
It is the way of the world, companies come, and go, and get sold...... to other companies who get to use the old name.....
In my experience, Trainworld almost never has the lowest price. I've bought from them, but it's been the last choice simply because they have better stock. Even then, they miss a few notables - no Tangent, no ScaleTrains ... there may be others. They also never offer free shipping and charge tax on every order. Their 10% discount codes/sales are never exceeded and more times than not, the sales tax and shipping completely negate any discount.
Lombard is the most consistently lowest in my experience. It helps to hold an account, though. They hide their pricing behind your customer account login. Simply look up their website and check pricing, and they only look reasonabley competitive. Log into your account, then there's an entirely different - lower - pricing. They also have free shipping if you order over $450, which these days is not hard to meet (all it takes is two DCC locos). Their Achilles heel is lack of stock over Trainworld, but they try to compensate with an all-in-one pre-order system.
Both retailers may carry certain brands regularly, but then cherry-pick what they'll pre-order. I've found Trainworld inexplicably offer some road numbers for a new Athearn announcement, but then not others - and even contacted them over the discrepancy (I wanted both road numbers). They confirmed that's what they were ordering and that was all. Lombard seems to be doing that more lately and it may just be me, but their search engine has degraded.
I'm one of the few (apparently) who sorely miss ModelTrainStuff. They more consistently offered more mfrs and at the same Trainworld price or less. Then there was the points system, they would offer free shipping in certain circumstances, and their periodic sales seemed to offer more advantages than others - like 15% off to email subscribers, etc.
If FDH re-creates ModelTrainStuff with their staff and policies, I'm very interested.
Doughless richhotrain Doughless AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand? I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available. And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman. I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now. There could be one or more of several reasons, well founded or not, why Factory Direct Hobbies, an online-only retailer, would want to acquire another online-only retailer, MB Klein (aka Model Train Stuff), selling the same hobby related items. Name Recognition would be one reason. I would think that among model railroaders the name MB Klein or Model Train Stuff would be better known than Factory Direct Hobbies. When Hatton's name was first mentioned as the purchaser of MTS it meant nothing to me. I never heard of Hatton's. But I am familiar with Factory Direct Hobbies, formerly known as Factory Direct Trains, and I have had good experience dealing with FDH. So, had MBK been acquired by Hatton's I would be skeptical and disinterested in dealing with that outfit. But, I would not be reluctant to deal with FDH. Customer Acquisition would be another reason. For those of us who watch Shark Tank, we know that the customer acquisition cost can be expensive. That may not be the case with the MBK purchase if FDH can lure MBK's customer base to its website. Mailing List would be a third reason. Since MBK undoubtedly maintained a customer mailing list, that would be extremely advantageous to FDH. Hard Assets would be another reason. I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse? Expansion of the Business would be yet another reason. FDH may simply want to expand its presence and scale its online presence. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba makes it clear that he intends to retain the Model Train Stuff name and online website presence. Key Employee Retention is a 6th reason. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba revealed that he has retained the current MTS Customer Service Manager and that he intends to recruit other key MTS staff as well. Rich Seems like the Factory Direct Hobbies should have stayed with the name Factory Direct Trains. Now they have to put down good cash to have a train website, LOL. To me, I would describe all of those reasons as falling under the "customer loyalty" description. I agree that's how a business might look at it. Newsletters, mailing lists, deal announcements,etc. As a customer, I don't buy anything unless I look at 7 or 8 websites. An announcement from one retailer simply invites me to go compare their offer to every other retailer, where I then will buy the best deal. Chances are it's not the retailer that tells me "the new Genesis GP38-2s are in stock" Maybe MBK customers simply shopped at MBK and didn't bother with other stores, so that "client list" has some value. Like I said, my loyalty begins with the shop that gives me the best deal today, and ends after I check out my shopping cart, so I don't get the customer loyalty bit that businesses seem to cherish.
richhotrain Doughless AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand? I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available. And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman. I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now. There could be one or more of several reasons, well founded or not, why Factory Direct Hobbies, an online-only retailer, would want to acquire another online-only retailer, MB Klein (aka Model Train Stuff), selling the same hobby related items. Name Recognition would be one reason. I would think that among model railroaders the name MB Klein or Model Train Stuff would be better known than Factory Direct Hobbies. When Hatton's name was first mentioned as the purchaser of MTS it meant nothing to me. I never heard of Hatton's. But I am familiar with Factory Direct Hobbies, formerly known as Factory Direct Trains, and I have had good experience dealing with FDH. So, had MBK been acquired by Hatton's I would be skeptical and disinterested in dealing with that outfit. But, I would not be reluctant to deal with FDH. Customer Acquisition would be another reason. For those of us who watch Shark Tank, we know that the customer acquisition cost can be expensive. That may not be the case with the MBK purchase if FDH can lure MBK's customer base to its website. Mailing List would be a third reason. Since MBK undoubtedly maintained a customer mailing list, that would be extremely advantageous to FDH. Hard Assets would be another reason. I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse? Expansion of the Business would be yet another reason. FDH may simply want to expand its presence and scale its online presence. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba makes it clear that he intends to retain the Model Train Stuff name and online website presence. Key Employee Retention is a 6th reason. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba revealed that he has retained the current MTS Customer Service Manager and that he intends to recruit other key MTS staff as well. Rich
Doughless AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand? I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available. And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman. I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now.
AEP528 And why would an US-based online-only retailer want to sell the same items through a second online-only retailer brand?
I had the same question. Of the, say, 15 online retailers I know about, what's the problem with loosing one of them to have only 14. They all sell the same products made by the same companies. Sales will just get absorbed by the other 14. Its not like there will now be 1/15th less product available.
And apparently, we may be going back to 15 from 14, only the 15th being another arm of one of the 14. I don't get it, I guess because I'm not a businessman.
I am a customer. Whenever I want an item, I look at all 14/15 retailers to see who has the best price at the time. I don't have any particular favorties, except for the one that gives me the best deal right now.
There could be one or more of several reasons, well founded or not, why Factory Direct Hobbies, an online-only retailer, would want to acquire another online-only retailer, MB Klein (aka Model Train Stuff), selling the same hobby related items.
Name Recognition would be one reason. I would think that among model railroaders the name MB Klein or Model Train Stuff would be better known than Factory Direct Hobbies. When Hatton's name was first mentioned as the purchaser of MTS it meant nothing to me. I never heard of Hatton's. But I am familiar with Factory Direct Hobbies, formerly known as Factory Direct Trains, and I have had good experience dealing with FDH. So, had MBK been acquired by Hatton's I would be skeptical and disinterested in dealing with that outfit. But, I would not be reluctant to deal with FDH.
Customer Acquisition would be another reason. For those of us who watch Shark Tank, we know that the customer acquisition cost can be expensive. That may not be the case with the MBK purchase if FDH can lure MBK's customer base to its website.
Mailing List would be a third reason. Since MBK undoubtedly maintained a customer mailing list, that would be extremely advantageous to FDH.
Hard Assets would be another reason. I know that MBK no longer maintained a brick and mortar store, but did MBK still maintain a warehouse?
Expansion of the Business would be yet another reason. FDH may simply want to expand its presence and scale its online presence. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba makes it clear that he intends to retain the Model Train Stuff name and online website presence.
Key Employee Retention is a 6th reason. In his Facebook announcement, Joe Grubba revealed that he has retained the current MTS Customer Service Manager and that he intends to recruit other key MTS staff as well.
Seems like the Factory Direct Hobbies should have stayed with the name Factory Direct Trains. Now they have to put down good cash to have a train website, LOL.
To me, I would describe all of those reasons as falling under the "customer loyalty" description. I agree that's how a business might look at it.
Newsletters, mailing lists, deal announcements,etc. As a customer, I don't buy anything unless I look at 7 or 8 websites. An announcement from one retailer simply invites me to go compare their offer to every other retailer, where I then will buy the best deal. Chances are it's not the retailer that tells me "the new Genesis GP38-2s are in stock"
Maybe MBK customers simply shopped at MBK and didn't bother with other stores, so that "client list" has some value. Like I said, my loyalty begins with the shop that gives me the best deal today, and ends after I check out my shopping cart, so I don't get the customer loyalty bit that businesses seem to cherish.
You raise a good point, Douglas, and I wonder as well why Factory Direct Trains changed its name to Factory Direct Hobbies.