Success - sort of.
I was able to shorten the mounting posts and lower the body to the correct height.
BUT, there are several items inside the locomotive that will need adjustment.
The weight is too high.
The combined height of the 8 pin connector and the DC lighting board are too high.
In the picture above, the weight, lighting board and the support for the lighting board have been removed.
More pictures and info as modifications progress.
Sheldon
Sheldon, thank you so much for this information. Mine must be the later run FA2's as they have the height issue and do not have operating fans. Looking forward to see how you alter the mounts but still ensure they are the same height. That is my biggest fear with altering them.
Mike
Details and photos will follow as I correct the problem.
mvlandsw The problem with the rocking is having the mounting posts in the center of the shell instead of near the ends. I shortened the posts and glued styrene blocks at the four corners to hold the frame flush with the bottom of the shell. IIRC the center posts hold the weight in position so they can't be eliminated entirely. I drilled and tapped the frame and styrene blocks for small screws to hold the frame in the shell. Another problem is the overall height of the unit caused by the frame riding too high on the trucks. This goes back to Life Like copying the Athearn blue box four wheel truck design. Those also are too high. I mill the truck bolster on the frame to lower the unit and then drill the bolster for a new center pin. There have been articles that show how to modify the trucks to lower the truck center plate instead.
The problem with the rocking is having the mounting posts in the center of the shell instead of near the ends. I shortened the posts and glued styrene blocks at the four corners to hold the frame flush with the bottom of the shell. IIRC the center posts hold the weight in position so they can't be eliminated entirely. I drilled and tapped the frame and styrene blocks for small screws to hold the frame in the shell.
Another problem is the overall height of the unit caused by the frame riding too high on the trucks. This goes back to Life Like copying the Athearn blue box four wheel truck design. Those also are too high.
I mill the truck bolster on the frame to lower the unit and then drill the bolster for a new center pin. There have been articles that show how to modify the trucks to lower the truck center plate instead.
Well that's interesting, but based on some first hand measuring I just did, a simpler solution exists.
I found a good scale drawing of an FA, then I measured some models.
I have first and second release versions of the FA2's and first release versions of FA1's.
Here is a photo of a first release FA1 and a first release FA2.
They are both the same height and match the prototype drawing within 1 scale inch in both overall height and the height of the body bottom edge from the rail head.
Here is a later release FA2, without the working rooftop fan, and it sits too high. It measures 3-4 scale inches higher both in overall height and in distance from the railhead to the bottom edge of the body.
BUT, the bottom edge of the body is not really covering the locomotive frame like the other two models do.
Hard to see on this paint scheme, but the body is simply not as far down on the frame as the other two models.
Then I measured the distance inside the shell, from the bottom edge to the mounting point.
The one setting too high measures one scale foot.
The other two models measure 1'-4".
And while I did not take a photo, there is a clear difference in the relationship of the coupler to the body/diaphragm that would also be instantly corrected by simply trimming the mounting posts and lowering the body four scale inches.
The frame/trucks are not the problem. The body is the defect and simply need to be allowed to go farther down.
Modifiying the frame/truck relationship changes the coupler height, which does not seem to be an issue.
These two locos are fine and scale out correctly, only the second/third run FA2 seems to havethis problem.
Most of my FA's are FA1's or first run FA2's which as you can see are fine, Only my solid blue B&O set are later run FA2's with this defect - easily fixed.
OOPS! Shows I don't know my PA's from my FA's.
Never mind.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewi Sheldon's still "look" different, and more to scale height than the others, for whatever reason. Maybe it's the body details around the trucks. From an observer that has never had an FA. Mike.
Sheldon's still "look" different, and more to scale height than the others, for whatever reason. Maybe it's the body details around the trucks.
From an observer that has never had an FA.
richhotrain Mike, how do the FAs run? Any problems with derailments? Rich
Mike, how do the FAs run?
Any problems with derailments?
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks for the feedback guys. Maybe I'm not nuts after all!
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut that does not look right. Looks like the rear of the loco shell is too high?
ATLANTIC CENTRALNot sure I understand your description about rocking?
I’m offering is a visual comparison between your P2K FA and mine
richhotrainsorta HO+ scale
ATLANTIC CENTRALI took a look at several of my FA's and there is an optical illusion that the rear of the shell is sitting high. But a ruler confirmed this is not the case.
After I posted initially I googled pics of Alco FAs and confirmed that the lowest stirrup step for climbing to the cab falls basically in line or a little below what appears to be the center of a leaf spring in the center of the truck. The LL models are clearly higher than that. I went back downstairs, pulled the shell off, and removed the decoder and the weight (highest two things inside the engine) and put the shell back on. No difference. The height of the crew in the cab appears to be right, so maybe this is just one big design flaw? Might be a ton of trouble to get the shell to sit lower on the chassis so they look better. Processing what to do next.
I took a look at several of my FA's and there is an optical illusion that the rear of the shell is sitting high.
But a ruler confirmed this is not the case.
FA photos later.
But here is photo of two of my Proto PA's.
They look level and normal to me based on photos, drawings and other brands of PA models?
Unti recently, I had two pairs of LL Proto 2000 PA/PB locos. My impression was the same as yours, Mike.
I thought that the chassis sat too high over the wheel sets. As a result, the consists appeared huge to me, sorta HO+ scale.
Moreover, the shells didn't fit well, especially the rear portion. I grew to hate these particular locos, especially since I constantly experienced derailment problems.
With a lot of help from members of this forum, I finally solved the derailment problems, and then I sold both cinsists.
I know that I am in the minority, but I will go so far as to say that this particular loco is downright ugly.
LL FA’s by msgasaway, on Flickr
LLFA by Bear, on Flickr
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Not sure I understand your description about rocking? But that does not look right. Looks like the rear of the loco shell is too high?
I have 15 Proto2000 FA's, both FA1's and FA2's, none ofthem look like that.
Your pictures are not real clear, hard to see any details that would give me a clue.
I will take a look at some of mine.
Question for anyone else who has these. My LL P2K FA pair both appear to sit way too high. The steps from the cab look like they should end lower down on the trucks, it appears too much of the frame is visible, and the coupler pocket openings in the body don't actually come all the way down on the couplers. Despite all this, the four molded posts on the inside of the body that the mounting screws go into appear to sit all the way down on the frame. Still, with the screws out and the bodies just sitting on the chassis, I can rock them front to back slightly and the pivot point appears to be the rear set of these posts. Is all of this normal? Assuming no, what did you do to rectify it? My LL P2K PA's don't have this same issue.
LL FA’s by Michael, on Flickr
Any help is appreciated.