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Atlas/Kato?

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Posted by PC101 on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:41 PM

SeeYou190
 
Southgate 2
There were over 900 views of this topic.

 

900 Views in one day.

There sure are a lot of lurkers amongst us.

Please join in the conversation!

-Kevin

 

610 views in less then 24 hours.

Atlas yellow box made in Japan by Kato.

End of box markings.

Side of box markings. (made in Japan)

Markings on the fuel tank.

Markings on the trucks bottom gear cover plate.

$30. bucks at a Train show new or lightly used, I do believe I'd have walked away with it after close inspection. If not just for the parts. Not that these locos need repaired much if at all. (But I should check those axel gears at least)

Looking over my records/inventory, Atlas is my #1 supplier coming in at 46 locos.

Stock numbers starting at #7004 SD24 Southern #2504 yellow box up to #9362 Alco C-425 PC #2419 black box classic.

Athearn BB 23, Life Like P2K 20, Athearn Geneisis 5, Bowser 5, Kato 3.

 

 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:07 PM

Yes. I too have that one. It does not run on a subway layout, but I think I will make a diarama with it on that.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by PC101 on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:03 PM

At the past Feburary train show at Timonium there was a table with maybe over 50 in the box Atlas yellow box locos. Asking price was $50.00 per locomotive. 

Now the kicker was the boxs looked liked they were caught up in a flood, water damaged, wrinkled and stained and when I looked in one box there was rust marks on the styrofoam.  

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Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, March 5, 2023 7:39 PM

I've seen many Atlas/Kato/Stewart locos with cracked gears, However unlike the Proto gears the Kato ones don't crack between the gear teeth but only the hub cracks. They don't make the clicking sound that the Proto units do. 

The gears don't need to be replaced. I use epoxy to glue the loose wheel set in the correct guage. Usually it's only one side of the gear that cracks.

Mark Vinski

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Posted by HO-Velo on Sunday, March 5, 2023 6:01 PM

Don't know if this pertains to the Atlas/Kato Drives, but the early 90s Kato and Stewart/Kato drives suffer wheel-set geared axle cracking.  Obviously there's a problem at the wheel-shaft to axle bore interference fit causing the 'Delrin'? geared axle to crack.  The cracks are sometimes difficult to see, a tip-off is the wheel-set not staying in gauge.  I've seen a new-old stock Stewart/Kato Drive loco with all four wheelsets having at least one cracked axle bore right out of the box.

Regards, Peter

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Posted by Vintagesteamer on Sunday, March 5, 2023 11:58 AM

Katos relationship with Atlas let them dip their "toes" in the water of the HO world.  N Scale is Kato's primary scale they produce as that is the predominate scale in Japan.  Their silky smooth drives in those older Atlas engines set a very high bar for drivetrain smoothness and quietness that was nearly unheard of at the time.  Athearn blue box diesels, Mantua steam and AHM/Rivarossi were the other main players in non brass HO locomotives at that time.  With the popularity of those models, Kato struck out on their own in HO scale later on with the RSC2, GP35, SD40, SD40-2, Dash9 and so forth. While not always the most detailed model or offering as many road names, their silky smooth drive is second to nobody.  

My first "good" HO scale diesel was an Atlas/Kato N&W Alco RS3.   Silky smooth, excellent headlights on both ends, easy to put Kaydee #5 couplers on with their box with the ears trimmed off.   While those models have all the details molded on and not free standing like newer models, they hold their own on a layout and run better than even many new models.  Hence the typical higher prices they fetch on the second hand market, especially for harder to find road names.   

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 5, 2023 11:29 AM

John-NYBW

 

 
Southgate 2

There were over 900 views of this topic. It may or may not have been one of the viewers who bought the locomotive. 

Generally when I'm interested in an item on Ebay, the last thing I'm going to do is call attention to it. It only lowers your odds. Keep your eyes open for another, it should come along...  Dan

 

 

 

All because I didn't understand the relationship Atlas had with Kato. I had no idea the topic would generate so much interest. 

I didn't intend to bid on the item or I wouldn't have mentioned it. The asking price was a bit too high compared with comparable items. I didn't notice it had a Or Best Offer option or I might have taken a swing at it. I doubt the seller would have let it go for what I would have been willing to pay for it but I'll never know for sure. 

 

Back in the day, when model trains were made in the USA, Atlas manufactured its product line in New Jersey. BUT that was long before they got into the locomotive or rolling stock business. 

Atlas cars and locomotives have always been made by other vendors, and while I'm sure Atlas has a team of people in charge of developing those products, I have never heard anyone talk about actual detailed design or tooling planning being done here.

Not sure how they are handling the Branchline products, most likely they simply sent the tooling to China.

No one should take my comments as negative toward Atlas, I like the company and the products, I use almost exclusively Atlas track.

But as locos and rolling stock go, the combination of their product choices and cost/availablity, have left me with just a few pieces of their rolling stock and no locomotives.

Whatever their deals with these various manufacturers have been over the years, I can tell you that most or all of the Roco produced Atlas items years ago were also sold in Europe under the Roco name, suggesting that Atlas did not fully pay for or control the tooling. 

Sheldon

    

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 5, 2023 10:56 AM

Southgate 2

There were over 900 views of this topic. It may or may not have been one of the viewers who bought the locomotive. 

Generally when I'm interested in an item on Ebay, the last thing I'm going to do is call attention to it. It only lowers your odds. Keep your eyes open for another, it should come along...  Dan

 

All because I didn't understand the relationship Atlas had with Kato. I had no idea the topic would generate so much interest. 

I didn't intend to bid on the item or I wouldn't have mentioned it. The asking price was a bit too high compared with comparable items. I didn't notice it had a Or Best Offer option or I might have taken a swing at it. I doubt the seller would have let it go for what I would have been willing to pay for it but I'll never know for sure. 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, March 5, 2023 10:40 AM

Southgate 2
There were over 900 views of this topic.

900 Views in one day.

There sure are a lot of lurkers amongst us.

Please join in the conversation!

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Sunday, March 5, 2023 10:35 AM

There were over 900 views of this topic. It may or may not have been one of the viewers who bought the locomotive. 

Generally when I'm interested in an item on Ebay, the last thing I'm going to do is call attention to it. It only lowers your odds. Keep your eyes open for another, it should come along...  Dan

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, March 5, 2023 10:15 AM

With auctions you never know who you are bidding against. Just won an item  recently where it already had a bid but I bid anyway, my bid just made it go up less than $1 from start, fiqued I would get outbid later and have to raise my bid, it never happened si I won the auction. I have overbid before on an item that I needed, needed one more tunnel portal of a certain brand, I was overpaying because I wanted to finnish the layout. I lost so I had to wait 3 weeks but only paid 1/2 the price of my original bid.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:52 AM

crossthedog

Well, somebody bought it. Was that not you, John?

Did somebody buy it or did the auction just run out? I didn't check for sold items. It had 0 bids on it when I looked at it but somebody might have been waiting until the very end to swoop in and grab it at the minimum price. I've done that before. I generally don't like to show my cards too early when I bid on an item. 

UPDATE: It was purchased for a Best Offer price. Apparently the buyer waited until the auction was almost over and then bid a discounted price. I'd be curious as to what it sold for but I don't think ebay tells you that if it isn't a bid price. 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:49 AM

EDIT Looks like it sold for $80, 1 bidder.  Larry Puckett in the video below said they go for much more at train shows.  Haven't been to one since C so I don't know.

This doesn't add to what has been said, but for those of you who like visuals, Larry Puckett has a video:

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by Vintagesteamer on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:35 AM

Not all yellow/white box Atlas engines were Kato powered, here is what was:  Alco RS1, RS3, RSD4/5, RS11, RSD12, Century 424 and 425, EMD GP7/9.  The rest of the line had Roco drives, which were smooth but had a growl to them when they ran.   At that point, Kato went out on their own.  Kato also did the drives in the earlier Stewart F series diesels for awhile.  Easy to figure out, the trucks have Kato on the bottom of them.   

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 5, 2023 8:48 AM

kasskaboose

You're a braver person to risk an e-bay purchase on a loco.

 

I generally avoid buying ANY loco from any source if the loco appears truely "used", as in actually having measureable hours on a layout.

BUT, I have bought several dozen locos on Ebay that were clearly "New Old Stock", with very few issues.

The irony here is what few problems I have encountered were generally from BIG sellers like TRAINZ, not from small shops or individuals.

And just to be clear about Atlas locos - they did not "use" a Kato drive, Kato built the whole locomotive. All early Atlas locos were built by Roco and Kato - in more recent times these high quality products from Atlas often come from Kader factories, better known to most of you as Bachmann.

And nearly all Atlas locos have been exceptional products.......

I don't own any myself, but sold hundreds of them in the early yellow box days when I ran the train department in a hobby shop.

Atlas, especially in the last 15-20 years, has had a limited selection in my era (1954), limited availability, especially of my desired undecorated models, and was an early adopter of the preorder business model.

So I have found all the models I want, that Atlas could have supplied, from other makers, because I'm not always much for searching or waiting.

But again, they are generally very well made and excellent runners.

Sheldon  

    

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, March 5, 2023 7:15 AM

They have Japan (yellow box) on the box, and Japan on the bottom of the trucks.  

I have 2, and that's how they are marked, both RS1's.

Most Ebay sellers of yellow box Atlas locos, know what they have, but not all.

The trick is to get the seller to show all sides of the box, and a clear bottom view of the trucks.

Mike.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, March 5, 2023 7:05 AM

maxman
I am probably mistaken, but didn’t those early units have Kato marked on the bottom of the truck assembly?

Yes, just like Stewart/Kato locomotives. The only place the Kato logo appeared was on the lower truck gear covers.

Southgate 2
Matt is correct in saying the Austria made Atlas models are not Kato drives. They are solid mechanisms, though. Not as quiet as the Katos.

My only Atlas/Roco (Austria) locomotive is an S-Series switcher. It runs just as well as the Kato driven locomotives I have. I do not have any experience with other Atlas/Roco locomotives.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Saturday, March 4, 2023 8:50 PM

Matt is correct in saying the Austria made Atlas models are not Kato drives. They are solid mechanisms, though. Not as quiet as the Katos, though, a bit of an Athesrn growl. Dan

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Posted by crossthedog on Saturday, March 4, 2023 5:13 PM

Well, somebody bought it. Was that not you, John?

Tom, yes, I wasn't very clear, sorry. The yellow-box Atlas locos have the Kato mechanism, made in Japan. And yes, it says Atlas Kato right on the bottom, as well as "Made in Japan". The black-box Classic Series Atlas locos were made in China, but I don't know who made the mechanism for those. Not Kato, I think. They are still very good.

There were also some very early Atlas yellow-box locos made by Roco of Austria. They don't say Kato on the bottom; they say Made in Austria. The Kato drives are in my opinion the best.

 -Matt

 

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, March 4, 2023 4:12 PM

kasskaboose

You're a braver person to risk an e-bay purchase on a loco.

 

Not really. I've bought roughly a dozen ebay locos and only got one lemon and I figure the money I saved by buying used locos easily made up for that one lemon. Most ebay sellers I've dealt with are honorable people but there are a small number who are not and one has to factor that in when choosing to buy online. I don't think the risk is any greater than buying at a train show. 

I like to buy used DC locos on the cheap and modify them with my own paint scheme and decals and convert them to DCC with sound. It's much cheaper than buying new factory DCC locos, especially at today's prices.

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, March 4, 2023 3:37 PM

I am probably mistaken, but didn’t those early units have Kato marked on the bottom of the truck assembly?

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Posted by kasskaboose on Saturday, March 4, 2023 3:25 PM

You're a braver person to risk an e-bay purchase on a loco.

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 4, 2023 2:27 PM

John-NYBW
I wasn't aware that Altas used Kato mechanisms but I'm guessing that is true of all the Atlas RS-1s being offered on ebay...

I don't believe the newer Classic Atlas locomotives are outfitted with Kato motors.  Nonetheless, they run VERY smoothly.  I have a Classic Atlas undecorated RS-1 and it's a sweet runner.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, March 4, 2023 1:10 PM
I wouldn’t part with mine.
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by hornblower on Saturday, March 4, 2023 1:08 PM

Until a few years ago, I had never heard of a Kato built Atlas.  Then, at a train show, I found a guy with a table full of such locos for $10 apiece.  I purchased two of these locos and have been kicking myself ever since for not buying everything on the table!  These are some of the sweetest running locos I own.

Hornblower

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Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, March 4, 2023 12:57 PM

Crossdog is correct about the loco I was looking at. I wasn't aware that Altas used Kato mechanisms but I'm guessing that is true of all the Atlas RS-1s being offered on ebay and since the asking price for this one is considerably more than what is being bid on other RS-1s, it doesn't seem like such a good buy, even with the free shipping.

I've bought several Atlas RS-1s and repainted them for my own road and converted them to DCC. I'm thinking of getting another which is why I was browsing ebay. The one advantage the one in question has is that it is lettered for the Pennsy and I do run Pennsy equipment on my road. I could get this one and only have to add the decoder and sound but I'm not sure that's worth paying $30 more.

Going back to my DC days back in the 1970s and beyond, I had two Atlas locos and they were by far the smoothest runners on my roster. I've converted several RS-1s and RS-3s for my present layout. The cost of new Atlas Alcos with factory DCC and sound is prohibitive.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, March 4, 2023 11:24 AM

Atlas locomotive with the reliable and well built Kato mechanism. It will be in an Atlas box and probably not say Kato on the packaging anywhere. Sellers make this known because they are desireable.

Good stuff.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by crossthedog on Saturday, March 4, 2023 10:43 AM

I fired off my first reply quickly because I didn't know how long was left on the auction. Then I went and looked. If it's the Pennsy RS-1 No. 9914, I think it looks like a charmer and if you want that loco, I'd say the price is about right, especially since there's free shipping.

I have found Yellow Box Atlases ("Atlantes", to be grammatically correct) for less than this, but only at swap meets. My first one cost $20 because the shell wouldn't snap down tight and the guy wanted to be rid of it. It is the quietest and smoothest engine I have. I can't hear it at all when it's running.

I hope you have a good experience with it if you buy.

-Matt

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by crossthedog on Saturday, March 4, 2023 10:29 AM

Kato of Japan made the early Atlas yellow-box locos. The black box "Classic Series" later were made in China. Both good. I love all my Atlas Katos. Get it if you can.

-Matt

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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