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Brass Hustler Model

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:54 PM

Many of the old 'issues' of fine speed control involving open-pole motors with limited number of straight poles and gears with lash/belts with elastic stretch are now perhaps more easily handled with fine motor control via DCC and better magnets retrofitted to the motor.  I would be tempted to lap those gear teeth with progressively finer abrasive, true up the belt-pulley grooves to the same dimensions, and abridge the belt coupling and tensioning before jumping straight to a repower or 'najor surgery' that ruins the historic fabric (such as it is)

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:43 PM

Kevin, did you actually get the engine to run?  You might not need to rework the powertrain. I have an old brass 0-4-0 (plantation type) that has a similar vertical gear drive. I managed to change the motor and put DCC sound. It actually runs OK, although I did add a tender for extra power pickup. But the gear drive itself works fine. I also have a few Rivarossi's that have that vertical gear arrangement, and they work OK as well. The starts are a bit towards the "fast" side, but that's fine with me. The Stanton drive works well, but is a bit pricey. I don't like pouring tons of money on an engine that will have more shelf time than operating time on the layout....

Simon

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:34 PM

In my opinion o-rings are a very poor replacement for the kind of spring conjugating drive pictured. An O-ring remotely able to handle the torque would be too stiff to stretch as needed and would exert ridiculous transverse force on the axles.  In theory you could autogenously weld plastic tubing to form a 'flexible O-ring' to match the 'pulley grooves' (one way is with a 19-micrometer laser and careful tensioning and positioning at the ends; another is to use the joining method for GSHP ground loops 'in miniature')... neither of these are practical for real-world modelers who don't work at Sandia or comparable place.

Use a flat belt of the right size, perhaps sourced from one of the places making replacement audio-equipment drive belts, and remachine or fill the pulleys to suit.  Either a sliding or roller Weller tensioner could easily be provided -- it could be as simple as a beefed-up version of the foam block in a Philips cassette or 8-track cartridge in this chassis Whistling

(Of course, just fixing that execrable 'splice' in the spring belt so it's shorter, and putting a simple light roller pretensioner on it, goes a long way toward making it 'tractable' as is without lots of surgery...)

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:18 PM

Or you might try the sprocket and link system I linked to earlier.

I've not tried it, but it looks promising.  Come to think of it, I have a Sunset 2-8-8-0 that I think has some sort of O-ring drive.  Maybe if I ever work on it, I'll try that route.

I suspect this system is kind of noisy when running fast.  But this is a UP 2-8-8-0, which NEVER ran fast.

 

 

Ed

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Posted by emdmike on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 11:06 AM

Northwest Short Line's Stanton drives are the best to replace spring belt drives in electic and traction models.  Some guys have used rubber O rings instead of spring belts, but I found those added more bind/resistance and took more power to run the model if the O ring was tight enough not to slip under a load.  You might join or search some of the trolley/traction modeling forums and sites for a source of those smaller spring belts.   Mike

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, October 17, 2021 6:15 PM

BEAUSABRE
This one looks like it could have been repowered and the normally black running gear painted gold as well - are you sure it's brass?

Do you mean the model in the original post?

If so, yes it is brass. In the bottom view the folded sheet metal is very obvious.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:17 PM

Trainman440
Weird, for the longest time I thought Athearn (and the marx/model power/lionel) hustlers were based on a complete fantasy prototype.  For a brass manufacturer to make one though, would imply that it was indeed a real loco. 

Your first impression was correct, it's a figment of old Uncle Irv's imagination

Just because some brass importer had it made doesn't mean a prototype existed - see the "Brute"

HO Brass Model Train - WMC Westside Freelance Series 2-10-0 The Brute | BRASSTRAINS.COM 

I guess they had some extra parts lying around on Friday afternoon

 

 

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Sunday, October 17, 2021 11:26 AM

Athearn offered a Hustler in gold painted plastic

https://features.snow-plows.biz/athearn-ho-train-custom-gold-porter-hustler-diesel.html?product_id=pcFbnQ6UglCJyA

This one looks like it could have been repowered and the normally black running gear painted gold as well - are you sure it's brass?

And despite claims otherwise ("It's a Porter" "No, it's a...") the Hustler was a product of Uncle Irv's imagination

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 14, 2021 5:27 PM

dknelson
It also has the twin stacks of the Athearn Hustler, which in turn was also offered by Lionel in a geared version (and I think a working headlight).  The Hustler had that EMD style fan on the hood which is another oddity.

Those two features, the round fan and twin stacks, are what give the Hustler much of its appeal for me.

I now have a geared version, and two more to build a Huster Center-Cab.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:16 PM

That certainly is very similiar to my Athearn Little Monster.  Though undoubtedly smaller.

 

Thanks!

 

Ed

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Posted by Trainman440 on Wednesday, October 13, 2021 9:46 PM

7j43k

What was the prototype?

Charles

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, October 13, 2021 3:01 PM

dknelson
On a related topic: Athearn's Little Monster O-4-2T steam locomotive was a genuine prototype (plans published years earlier in MR, drawn by a young Linn Westcott)...
 
 
 

 

What was the prototype?

 

Ed

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:10 PM

trwroute

It even has the fat hood like a hustler.  It looks to be a lower quality of brass manufacturing, but if it's cheap enough, it would be an easy rebuild.

 

 
It also has the twin stacks of the Athearn Hustler, which in turn was also offered by Lionel in a geared version (and I think a working headlight).  The Hustler had that EMD style fan on the hood which is another oddity.
 
The Hustler most resembled, sort of, some of the Porter "critters" in terms of the overall lines and the two axles with external sideframe, but very over-sized, both the body and the frame, more like S scale, assuming a 1/64 scale person could fit into the cab.  There were other small switchers that had the look of the Hustler body, but had two trucks underneath; a local industry in my hometown had one which reportedly was the last locomotive ever produced by Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton. 
 
On a related topic: Athearn's Little Monster O-4-2T steam locomotive was a genuine prototype (plans published years earlier in MR, drawn by a young Linn Westcott) but it too was made oversized to fit the motor and drive.  And there was a parallel brass version too but it was more correctly scaled.
 
 
 
Dave Nelson
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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, October 13, 2021 10:33 AM

gmpullman

 NYC_T3_Alco-works by Edmund, on Flickr

I could never get this NYC T3 to run, bought a second one just to get the spare springs. Can't find the 1.2mm spring stock. Mamod and Wilesco have some but they are 1.5 and 2mm. Paid $60 to have 12" worth sent from UK. Too big.

 NYC_T3_Alco by Edmund, on Flickr

I'd love to fit a Stanton drive (2) under there but the axle centers are shorter than what's available.

Good Luck, Ed

 

 

I recommend investigating this:

 

https://www.grandtline.com/products/sprockets-and-chain/

 

 

Ed

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 11:27 PM

Trainman440
Can anyone find a photo of the prototype?

This Whitcomb is close. It's even brass Whistling

The "Hustler" possibly follows the lines of the H. K. Porter industrial models:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel100.html

 

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Trainman440 on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 11:18 PM

Weird, for the longest time I thought Athearn (and the marx/model power/lionel) hustlers were based on a complete fantasy prototype. 

For a brass manufacturer to make one though, would imply that it was indeed a real loco. 

Can anyone find a photo of the prototype?

Charles

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO

Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440

Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 9:35 PM

maxman
I thought it was a rubber band, but I magnified the photo and it looks like a spring.

I'm no fan of the spring drive! Some early Varney locos used spring band drives. I recall seeing one that had stepped pulleys so you could "choose" three speed ranges. A clever idea!

 NYC_T3_Alco-works by Edmund, on Flickr

I could never get this NYC T3 to run, bought a second one just to get the spare springs. Can't find the 1.2mm spring stock. Mamod and Wilesco have some but they are 1.5 and 2mm. Paid $60 to have 12" worth sent from UK. Too big.

 NYC_T3_Alco by Edmund, on Flickr

I'd love to fit a Stanton drive (2) under there but the axle centers are shorter than what's available.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by oldline1 on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 3:35 PM

It's a very early brass import and I believe by GEM. It's pretty crude compared to the Athearn or Lionel models and doesn't run as well as the Athearn Hi-F drive or the geared versions. It also won't do Mach 3 like the Hi-F versions.

It's a nice collectable but if you want to run the engine I'd recommend the Athearn body with either an Ernst drive or the NWSL Stanton drive they make.

oldline1

 

I believe it's supposed to be a Plymouth prototype but not sure.

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 3:32 PM

7j43k

I'm glad they didn't fully abandon the rubber band drive.

 

Ed

 

I thought it was a rubber band, but I magnified the photo and it looks like a spring.

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 2:34 PM

I'm glad they didn't fully abandon the rubber band drive.

 

Ed

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Posted by trwroute on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:14 PM

It even has the fat hood like a hustler.  It looks to be a lower quality of brass manufacturing, but if it's cheap enough, it would be an easy rebuild.

Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge

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Posted by NittanyLion on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 12:06 PM

I've found pictures of others out there and the letter on the front is OPICO.

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Brass Hustler Model
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 11:55 AM

This model popped up for sale on eBay. It looks a lot like a Hustler to me, but I cannot make out what is written on the front of the locomotive.

It looks old. It has a vertical motor and a spring belt drive. Did this model predate the Hustler? Is it based on the Hustler? Is there a prototype for this thing?

I have so many questions.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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