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Colorized and restored black and white photographs

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, November 7, 2020 6:43 PM

BN7150

I wanted to know the colors of this boxcar, so I tried to colorize the black and white photo on a free online website, but I'm not sure. Is the middle band red and the upper and lower bands blue?

Pullman-Standard Freigh Cars, 1900-1960

Pullman-Standard PSX1 demonstrator

 

Pretty sure that car was red, white and blue. Those free online colorizing programs are more geared to colorizing people as that's what most people used them for, hence facial recognition is part of its coloring basis. They do a terrible job of coloring inanimate objects like trains, cars, etc. as the program can't detect any faces, so just takes a stab in the dark.

Mark. 

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Posted by Jetrock on Saturday, November 7, 2020 6:33 PM

Originally color rather than colorized:

 

Southern Pacific central shops from roughly I Street, Sacramento, CA

 

Sacramento Waterfront, now Old Sacramento and the home of the California State Railroad Museum

 Note the Sacramento Northern steeplecab in the background, pulling a freight train over the Tower Bridge.

Both photos from the Ouye family collection

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, November 7, 2020 10:27 AM

M636C
Clearly the second one is a railroad photograph...

Yes, that is why I chose to share that one, it was the only one of the WW1 photographs that featured railroad equipment.

Trying to stay on the themes of these forum boards.

-Kevin

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, November 7, 2020 7:02 AM

Jamey Johnson, "You should have seen it in color".

Mike.

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, November 7, 2020 4:42 AM

SeeYou190

A group in the UK called Babelcolour has been restoring old photographs from World War 1 with amazing results.

Does anyone know of any work like this done on old railroad photographs?

-Kevin

 

Clearly the second one is a railroad photograph...

It appears to be a French Travelling Post Office, presumably built some time before the First World War. These retained a dark red colour (maroon) well into the 1960s. A characteristic of these vehicles was the lack of windows (for added security), natural lighting being provided by the glazed clerestory that was presumed to be too difficult to enter through. The steel body panels were presumably another security measure but were clearly not up to the effects of a machine gun (or schrapnel...).

Peter

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Posted by BN7150 on Friday, November 6, 2020 2:16 PM

I wanted to know the colors of this boxcar, so I tried to colorize the black and white photo on a free online website, but I'm not sure. Is the middle band red and the upper and lower bands blue?

Pullman-Standard Freigh Cars, 1900-1960

Pullman-Standard PSX1 demonstrator

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Friday, November 6, 2020 9:25 AM

Water Level Route sums it up for me too. 

Similarily as a fan of the 1938 20th Century I really enjoy watching the K & L Trains animation promo and to take it a step further if and when the time comes that a perfect HD colourised film annimation - call it what you like - of that were possible as though the train was running today I would enjoy that too.

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Posted by Water Level Route on Friday, November 6, 2020 8:36 AM

I have a viewpoint apparently opposite of many here.  As a student of history, I've viewed more than my share of black and white photos, and fully appreciate the magic of them.  However, seeing a well done colorized version really brings it to life for me.  Assuming it's well done, I usually like them better.

Mike

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:24 PM

BigDaddy
To get the exact same model paint to match that used on your favorite RR is pretty much chance.  Then there are the effects of sunlight, dirt and natural weathering.

The PRR guys are always trying to "exactly" replicate particular tints and shades of certain colors. In reality, it varied from supplier to supplier, shop to shop and lots of other variables. I have a few "Drift control cards" that were supposed to be master samples. Still, there was variation in formulas and ageing conditions that affected the color.

Here is a C&NW paint sample "test" technician: (1943 Jack Delano Kodachrome)

 CnNW_paint-samples-1943 by Edmund, on Flickr

I understand that some of the PRR "freight car color" actually used pulverized brick dust for some portion of the pigment. This could have varied greatly in color over time or the source of the brick.

Close enough is good enough for me Whistling

Regards, Ed 

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:14 PM

Good example, Ed. Let the image or film be enjoyed for its own reasons.

Now if what's driving concerns about the accuracy of the colorization is a desire to get accurate references for modeling, you're better off not depending too much on any image in the digital age. Anything produced in a digital format is "altered" just in the usual processing to some degree, whether you're starting with a B&W or somerthing shot in color.

If you really are looking to replicate a favorite color, then it's what works for your eye under your lighting condition. A single reference image, even if technically accurate, is only a single slice of the many diiferent aspects of that color under different conditions.

Better instead to train your eye to appreciate the range a color may have by evaluating lots of images. Learn the things that work for your eye in best duplcating its iook. You'll learn what paint works for your eye and perception and under what conditions, as you need. In the process, some will become apparent to your increasingly knowledgable eye to be unsuitable for your needs. Mostly you can avoid this by your efforts toward understanding of what you've seen.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:58 PM

I took care of WW1 vets as a med student.  They are ALL gone.  Only 2% of US WW2 vets are still alive.  I did not serve in Vietnam, but many of my classmates did.  If I live long enough, most of them will be gone.  OTOH, John Tyler, elected the 10th President of the US in 1840; his grandson died just last month.  That is some longevity

Vintage BMW motorcycle collectors get all worked up about paint and want the exact origianal paint.  That paint, still made by the same company, is no longer made with the same formula, yet they still anguish about it.

To get the exact same model paint to match that used on your favorite RR is pretty much chance.  Then there are the effects of sunlight, dirt and natural weathering.

Henry

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:32 PM

SeeYou190
A group in the UK called Babelcolour has been restoring old photographs from World War 1 with amazing results.

My son gave me a copy of this film:

Accurate rendering or not it was still a fascinating look and an amazing restoration. They Shall Not Grow Old.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, November 5, 2020 6:45 PM

Color film for consumers is pretty much 1930s and later. Before that, it existed but was very rare. So there's a lot of B&W images out there.

Not sure why people want to get all hung up on the accuracy of the rendering. If you need absolute color accuracy, that can still be an issue for state of the art imaging. Colorizing old images is about the art of it and should be appreciated as such.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by cx500 on Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:16 PM

tstage
And how accurate are the colors going to be compared to the original colors (at the time the photograph was taken) in reality?

As others have said, they may be more accurate (at least for some of the colours) than a similar colour photograph taken at the same time.  Different films tended to favour different colours; for example usually Ektachrome would put more blue than Kodachrome.   Color negative film added an additional processing step that could influence the resulting shades on a print.  And then older color films often suffer color shifts with time, especially if the processing lab was using tired chemicals.

When colorizing the technician can match some colors exactly if he has an original item, such as a military uniform, on hand as a sample.  That will help guide the rest of the image to at least a reasonable consistency.

Of course, old colorized postcards often do look somewhat faked.

John

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, November 5, 2020 3:16 PM

SeeYou190
Does anyone know of any work like this done on old railroad photographs?

We had a thread on this about a month ago.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/284625.aspx 

 

Brent

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, November 5, 2020 3:01 PM

tstage

 

 
Mark R.
While fun to look at, I personally don't like colorized photos. They lose some of the "magic" that is black and white.

Mark.

 

Agreed.  And how accurate are the colors going to be compared to the original colors (at the time the photograph was taken) in reality?

 

More accurately than you might think possible.  Working from an object of known color in the image (like, say, a logo on a sign), you can determine how certain colors in the image were rendered in grayscale.  Then you can work out what other colors are in the image based on the shade of gray they appear at.  If you know the type of film, it gets even more accurate.  It isn't easy and is very time consuming, but AI systems are getting very good at the processing.  They're not perfect and never will be, but there's actual science behind it instead of pure guesswork.

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Posted by NorthBrit on Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:33 PM

tstage
Agreed.  And how accurate are the colors going to be compared to the original colors (at the time the photograph was taken) in reality?

AAAghh!!!!!!!   My Grandmother had photographs of 'Her boys' and my Mother in military uniform on show for all to see.  They were black and white and colorised. Were the colors wrong? Oops - Sign  (No Big Smile)

The picture of my mother was all I knew of her, being orphaned at three days old.

When my Grandchildren visit and want to see our 'old photographs', they only look at the black and white ones??? Laugh

Oh!  And I also agree with Mark.

David

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I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by Trainman440 on Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:16 PM

tstage

Agreed.  And how accurate are the colors going to be compared to the original colors (at the time the photograph was taken) in reality?

Look at them long enough and you start believing whatever colors chosen are accurate.

Case in point: Why are dinosaurs green?

Cheers!

Charles

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, November 5, 2020 2:02 PM

Mark R.
While fun to look at, I personally don't like colorized photos. They lose some of the "magic" that is black and white.

Mark.

Agreed.  And how accurate are the colors going to be compared to the original colors (at the time the photograph was taken) in reality?

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:48 AM

Here's an excellent site full of pics of what I model by Mark Evans. Many are tastefully colorized, while others are straight-up B&W. Enjoy.

https://www.narrowgauge.org/

Mike Lehman

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:38 AM

Isn't there a 'colorized' version of one of the high-resolution 'versions' of the French train clip that is among the very first modern movies?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7969847/Famous-1896-video-remastered-4K-masterpiece-60FPS-using-AI.html 

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Posted by Mark R. on Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:34 AM

While fun to look at, I personally don't like colorized photos. They lose some of the "magic" that is black and white.

Mark.

 

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:28 AM

 ANd here I thought people just used to see in black and white back than, and only more receltly have we evolved color vision.....

Laugh

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Colorized and restored black and white photographs
Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:51 AM

A group in the UK called Babelcolour has been restoring old photographs from World War 1 with amazing results.

Does anyone know of any work like this done on old railroad photographs?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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