Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Discussion: Dead Rail Layouts in HO and Smaller Scales...

3819 views
44 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January, 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 9,237 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, April 22, 2019 11:38 PM

Not interested in dead rail or DCC, when DC will do everything I want, and at limited cost and minimal effort.

For those that are interested in such things, my best wishes.

Wayne

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 9,701 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 3:50 AM

rrinker
 A power car behind the loco - might work for steam, but for anyone into serious operations, and using diesel locos, this will never fly. Requiring a specific car to always be right behind the loco flies in the face of prototypical operation.

How about having batteries in both the locomotives and following cars? The locomotive battery would be used for switching the locomotive around and running light, and the larger car battery would provide enough power to pull the train once everything is hooked up.

Connecting the battery cars to the locomotives would logically require some sort of power conducting coupler system but I'm sure that sort of mechanical detail could be worked out.

Dave

  • Member since
    September, 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 18,003 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 4:40 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 

Point? It is unlikely that anyone who is happy with what they have invested time and money into will change to something new.

New stuff is for new people, or people starting new layouts.......

That pretty much says it all, and it says it well.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    November, 2012
  • 778 posts
Posted by emdmike on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 8:32 AM

I think many here are being short sighted in their arguments.  While I dont think anybody expects an established modeler to re-equip a whole layout and fleet with battery power(if it was available on a wide spread basis today).  But up and comming modelers might consider it as they get started in the future.  Track power will probably never go away, just as there are still track powered, DCC and onboard battery in both G and O scale.  HO is being tested, using very expensive batteries used in handheld medical devices.  Run time was around 1.5 to 2 hours with the average can motored engine, and the gentleman testing these has his own combined radio control, charging circuit and sound all on one very small circuit board.   If we go back 10 years, or 20 and tell those modelers in G scale that we would have radio control with onboard battery power, along with those smart phones(basicaly mini computer and phone all in one when you get down to brass tacks), they would have said impossible, never will happen, and your crazy......Yet here we are, with all of those things being a reality.  Batteries keep getting better, smaller with better duration and less issues of bursting into fire when charging.  I have no reason to NOT think this will change as companies keep pushing the technology forward.  Model trains will benefit from this and those that CHOOSE to experiment with onboard battery will push others to do the same and inovate.  Just as we did that to achieve the world of DCC as we know it today.  Progress moves foward in all aspects of life, why should our hobbies stay stagnet in the past in reguards to control and technology?   They wont, but as is today, you will have modelers stay with DC over DCC control, or in the future, track power vs onboard battery power.  When I started in this hobby in my teens as I moved away from Lionel toy trains and into HO and G scale, who would have thought we would see onboard sound in HO, let alone in N scale.  Successfull Z and T scale layouts for those with great eyesight, and onboard battery RC in G scale.   All of those were fig newtons in someones imagination when I was a teenager or just an experiment being done by a few that were doing what we as a race do best, inovate/invent.  So for those out there pushing the envelope in the hobby, good luck and best wishes.  Those of us with open minds will share those successes and failures with you.    Mike the Aspie

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 7,877 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 8:45 AM

emdmike,

I think I said that in two sentences and Rich quoted me right above your post.

Yes, new people will try these new things, and they will advance.

BUT, in 25 years DCC has only made a 60% to 75% penitration into HO and N, and less in larger scales.

I likely won't be here when battery power in HO becomes mainstream.

But more importantly, for me, and many modelers, one more important point.

This technology solves no problems for me - It would not make my train operating experiance any better, so I don't need it, nor do I want to afford it.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 8,137 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 9:06 AM

Bat Trees?

LION has experence with bat trees, and it is not good.

 

LION Has never made a bat tree powerd tool work good, so why him think a bat tree powered train wood work.

 

Locomotive with black stripes is diesel powered:

 

Locomotive with green stripes is Electric Powered:

Has bat tree box so it can run where is no third rail, such as over switch points, but not for long duty, is small bat tree pack.

 

Now back to railroad of LION... Him runs subways, on a special DC layout, all well and good, but lights of subway cars needs to stay on when train stops (no power) in station.

Lion has tried bat trees, but the bats all fly away over night. knead switch to tern off lights?

 

Then you would have to go around to all ten trains turning lights off and onn.

 

Rechargable bat trees, LION at least haves no luck, nor likewise luck with super caps.

 

Commuters of LION will just have to sit in the dark when train is in station. Satastion s after all are well lit and vieweres might not even nmotice that the lights went off.

Notice, they will, when a LION comes to eat them!

LION will vist Groton next time him is east. A submarine bat tree ought to work, but of course I might have to go to a larger skale.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    May, 2010
  • 5,384 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 10:27 AM

Mr.SPSOT Fan, if your intersted in alternative methods of running multiple trains on the same tracks,  you NEED to check out the Lions subway.  Wink

Mike.

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Pacific Northwest
  • 476 posts
Posted by SPSOT fan on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 11:39 AM

mbinsewi

Mr.SPSOT Fan, if your intersted in alternative methods of running multiple trains on the same tracks,  you NEED to check out the Lions subway.  Wink

Mike.

Checked the Lions blog Dots - Sign

Thats complex! Don’t understand much! Being younger I prefer more modern computers! Indifferent

Nonetheless it is an accomplishment. I’ll stick with hardware I can buy, and only customize the software if anything!

Hey, could you use Arduinos to run something similar...

Just an idea! Smile

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

  • Member since
    May, 2010
  • 5,384 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 11:55 AM

SPSOT fan
Hey, could you use Arduinos to run something similar...

Ard.....  what?  I have to look at your post to even spell it!  There's lot of guys on here that use those, too.  Me ?  Confused    Laugh

Mike

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 7,877 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 12:33 PM

SPSOT fan

 

 
mbinsewi

Mr.SPSOT Fan, if your intersted in alternative methods of running multiple trains on the same tracks,  you NEED to check out the Lions subway.  Wink

Mike.

 

 

Checked the Lions blog Dots - Sign

Thats complex! Don’t understand much! Being younger I prefer more modern computers! Indifferent

Nonetheless it is an accomplishment. I’ll stick with hardware I can buy, and only customize the software if anything!

Hey, could you use Arduinos to run something similar...

Just an idea! Smile

 

You can, but Arduinos are not really easier or cheaper than relays for what the Lion does, or for what I do with Advanced Cab Control.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Pacific Northwest
  • 476 posts
Posted by SPSOT fan on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 12:47 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

You can, but Arduinos are nit really easier or cheaper than relays for what the Lion does, or for what I do with Advanced Cab Control.

Sheldon

I would guess you’d need loads of Arduinos to do what Lions got. Certainly an investment. It sound like Lions hardware can come cheaply, while a lot of Aduinos adds up. Easier is relative. I bet most people on this forum are more firmiliar with relays and such than I am (What even is a relay! Smile). I know more about arduinos, etc. so that would be easier for me. Whatever, you do you! I would never go automatic DC, like switching too much. Good thing I model my railroad and you model yours!

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 7,877 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 12:56 PM

SPSOT fan

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

You can, but Arduinos are nit really easier or cheaper than relays for what the Lion does, or for what I do with Advanced Cab Control.

Sheldon

 

 

I would guess you’d need loads of Arduinos to do what Lions got. Certainly an investment. It sound like Lions hardware can come cheaply, while a lot of Aduinos adds up. Easier is relative. I bet most people on this forum are more firmiliar with relays and such than I am (What even is a relay! Smile). I know more about arduinos, etc. so that would be easier for me. Whatever, you do you! I would never go automatic DC, like switching too much. Good thing I model my railroad and you model yours!

 

What I do is not automatic like the Lion, but rather it provides a DCC like operational experiance with CTC, signals, one button route control of turnouts, wireless radio throttles, and more, with no decoders, no programing, no throttles with 35 buttons......

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • 1,192 posts
Posted by trainnut1250 on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 10:07 PM

richhotrain
 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 

Point? It is unlikely that anyone who is happy with what they have invested time and money into will change to something new.

New stuff is for new people, or people starting new layouts.......

 

 

That pretty much says it all, and it says it well.

 

Rich

 

 

Up to a point. When the new technology shows big advantages to the previous methods, it will get lots of converts from the old technology.

I personally know of lots of large, nearly complete layouts with big rosters that were converted to DCC in the late 90's/early aughts. The owners felt the advantages of DCC were worth the effort and expense. I suspect this will happen again as technology advances far enough to show big advantages over DCC.

We aren't there yet for me personally, but I am watching to see what comes next.

 

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 7,877 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 11:18 PM

trainnut1250

 

 
richhotrain
 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 

Point? It is unlikely that anyone who is happy with what they have invested time and money into will change to something new.

New stuff is for new people, or people starting new layouts.......

 

 

That pretty much says it all, and it says it well.

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

Up to a point. When the new technology shows big advantages to the previous methods, it will get lots of converts from the old technology.

I personally know of lots of large, nearly complete layouts with big rosters that were converted to DCC in the late 90's/early aughts. The owners felt the advantages of DCC were worth the effort and expense. I suspect this will happen again as technology advances far enough to show big advantages over DCC.

We aren't there yet for me personally, but I am watching to see what comes next.

 

Guy

 

True, but as I pointed out earlier, what advantage is gained? What problem is solved with battery power?

Track cleaning has never been a problem for me in nearly 50 years at this.

Wiring has not been a problem for me. 

For a large number of modelers it is a solution looking for a problem.......

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • 1,192 posts
Posted by trainnut1250 on Tuesday, April 23, 2019 11:37 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
 
 

 

True, but as I pointed out earlier, what advantage is gained? What problem is solved with battery power?

Track cleaning has never been a problem for me in nearly 50 years at this.

Wiring has not been a problem for me. 

For a large number of modelers it is a solution looking for a problem.......

Sheldon

 

 

Yes I pretty much agree. Keep alives have solved any issues I currently have, but I do feel that some day there might be some other advantages come from new technology that aren't apparent now.

 

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!