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Gorre and Daphetid stuff

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Posted by Great Divide on Wednesday, September 18, 2019 7:03 PM
This was really fun to see..... I've got to build this as well. Nice job...!
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Posted by Great Divide on Wednesday, September 18, 2019 7:07 PM
The room is not exact... but it is close... I am not in here very often.. But please follow along on facebook until I get my own web page. Lots of fun stuff will be attempted this winter... I want to get more done in the city areas before spreading out to the mountains.
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, September 19, 2019 6:11 AM

Great Divide
The room is not exact... but it is close...

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Close should be good enough. I think the room shape would be critical in order to capture the feel of the GORRE AND DAPHETID.

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I wonder how much would have been different if John Allen would have had a rectangular room, and did not have to get creative to make it all fit and work.

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-Kevin

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Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, September 19, 2019 4:25 PM

SeeYou190
I wonder how much would have been different if John Allen would have had a rectangular room, and did not have to get creative to make it all fit and work.

I might be wrong, but I thought I read that John Allen had his basement built - or at least, greatly modified - to his specifications before beginning building the layout?

Stix
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, September 19, 2019 4:40 PM

John had a large portion underneath the house excavated to a deeper depth to allow a bigger layout to be built, and some portions of the layout were built on a built-up concrete section that was not excavated.

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As far as I know, the actual size or shape of the basement was not changed during this preparatory work.

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If you know more about this, please add to this conversation.

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-Kevin

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Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Great Divide on Tuesday, October 15, 2019 4:21 PM

SeeYou190
Close should be good enough. I think the room shape would be critical in order to capture the feel of the GORRE AND DAPHETID.

 

I would agree Kevin.  So I will assume you took the time to actually look at my plans and have seen they are very close to the exact configuration of John's. 

   He had a very strange shape to work in with large alcoves on either end of his space. He also had 7'2" of ceiling height and three main support posts within the layout itself, of which he removed one directly under his living room floor above.  I have created a very similiar shape. Exact enough that  many of the original opertors and visitors to Johns layout who are following my build are very pleased with the exacting work being done so far.   

   Part of the differences I have in my room are an 8' 3" ceiling height (improvement) and NO support posts at all to deal with.(imporvement)  So my Devils Post Pile and Eagles Nest Restaurant will have nothing above them and sit as they should, as a mountain top.  Any changes I had to make to fit the room would be the angle of a module might be slightly askew to Johns original, undetectable to a visitor.   I might have a narrower asile by 6" in some places, would anyone know or care if they did?   My changes are subtle changes and do not effect the main line operations in anyway nor the scenery, in fact most of my differences will enhnce this layouts overall appeal.  

    I also have access to the wall beind the entire Great Divide Yard are where John had to use a hatch that was very difficult to access (another imporvement) and I also have total access behind what he called "Cold Shoulder" and Andrews. (another improvement)

 For me, in trying to bring his layout back to life I had to recreate as much of the shape as possible to pull this off as it is important to create the same or similiar scenic distances, and locations of iconic scenes in photgprahs so wel known.   His odd cellar floor plan has been a big part in befuddeling many previous attempts at even coming close to a rebuild.  But so far everything is fitting nicely here, despite any slight differences I have had to deal with.

 I credit John Allen for my lifes best work in museums, and I am trying to simply repay this gift of a professionally competed job right back to him by honoring his legacy and bringing his incredible fantasy world back to life with some new equipment and in many cases better detail, all with the skills he inspired me to obtain.   It all seems perfect to me.   John deserves to have his layout brought back to life.  His story is so incredible but that catostrophic ending has got to be changed a bit.  I can't make his magical world but I can make a new one that I hope will gain it's own magic and bring along with it, some new young faces who saw this model and read Johns story and can totally "get" why he was so famous and became inspired to get into this hobby.     I think John would aprove of that.  

 

Please follow the build if you have any interest,  It is an odd thing to see I get that.  How many copies of someone elses layout do you EVERY see being built?  And then, seeing one done like a museum exhibit build, a behind the scenes and in real time project.  And then, have it be a famous modeler who inspired tens of thousands of us to get into this hobby and helped set the standards for this hobby and entire model railroading industry itself back in the day. I see no downside myself nor reason to doubt this porject for a minute once the facts are known.    Anyway  I hope this build is looked upon as a "fun thing to see", and "interesting".    Not something to nit-pick or opionate over.  Rivet counters will simpy be sent back to their rooms without diner.  My other passion is research as I am also a historian.   

  I would welcome any good information that helps me get this build as perfect as humanly possible, where possible.  This one is for all of us John Allen fans.       

 

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 17, 2019 5:55 AM

I will follow the build, absolutely.

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The GORRE AND DAPHETID fed my young imagination when I was discovering this hobby's potential. Seeing it built again is a thrill for me.

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The differences you described all seem like very appropriate things to do. Someione with your skills will surely do this task justice.

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-Kevin

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Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Harrison on Thursday, October 17, 2019 7:08 AM

Great Divide

 

 
nycmodel
I would love to see onging status photos in this forum.

 

 

NYC  Hey I am in upstate NY  NYC homeland...  !   

I just saw your page, great modeling, quite a project to recreate the most famous layout in model RR history. By upstate NY, do you mean north country?

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

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Posted by Great Divide on Thursday, October 17, 2019 9:52 AM
Nice Kevin and thanks. The 8 year old kid in me wants to see this. He is pretty persistent, so I'll have something fun to see soon. Please like the facebook page or select follow and you'll get any updates as I post them. I don't chat a lot in there. It's usually just a new building or bridge done... I spoke with another one of the regular operators of John's layout last night. Glenn J. what a great old dude, he is in assisted care situation now. It is my hope that I can finish this in time for ANY ONe or All of those guy's to come see this. Glenn did not have his name on any of Johns buildings... He and some of the other guys I have spoken with have their names here now. Second best but at least this one will still be in one piece and perhaps make it to a Museum as well one day.
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Posted by Great Divide on Thursday, October 17, 2019 10:02 AM
Harison, if your upstate you are welcome to stop by in person to see this. There's not what anyone would consider a large modeling community up here anymore. There do seem to be a lot of guys who are very private... and others who might talk to you if you are part of a club. For me the club is more than an hour one way and bad back roads in the winter to do it, Anyway, the NYC an the station at Fonda is a place my Dad used to take me to a few times a month...back in the 1960's to have a picnic in the park and watch the trains. Still used to be 6 or 7 an hour, Freight and passenger back then going through the valley. I wrote a nice little pictorial history book on the FJ&G RR years ago now. The NYC was my favorite... as a "Team Sport"
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Posted by Great Divide on Saturday, October 19, 2019 1:41 PM
Have you all seen the other threads in here about John Allen and the G&D... http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/model-train-layouts/2018/08/john-allens-gorre-daphetid-online-extras It's funny but in this thread they have to approve comments... I added my museum quality build page as something people may want to see.. So far after more than a year and several attempts to add this Model Railroader does not feel my build is worthy of even a "comment"..? http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/model-train-layouts/2018/08/john-allens-gorre-daphetid-online-extras
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Posted by Jumijo on Saturday, October 19, 2019 3:42 PM

Great Divide, I'd love to hear about how you found a duplicate of Emma the dinosaur. How did you even know what to look for? Did you know anything about the figure, such as the maker? What kind of research did you have to do for that?

Jim

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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Posted by Great Divide on Thursday, October 31, 2019 6:01 PM

nycmodel

Randy, I admire your attempt to recreate John Allen's G & D. I always wished I had the space and time (not to mention skills) to do that. So far it looks good but boy do you have a long way to go. Do you plan to recreate the mountainous region all the way to Andrews? You will have your work cut out for you reproducing that rock work. Do you plan to build all the bridges including the never built bridge from Scalp Mountain? I would love to see onging status photos in this forum.

 

Yes sir, everything.       A massive part of the work on thie layout is where I started in the two cities.     Benchwork and track following a grade and the plan drawings is the easy part.   And I don't think there is a man alive who can move faster with plaster than I can, to mold it, carve it, mix it with other stone products to slow down the cure, or use hot water to make it instantaeous.  I am building Port Plastics now and that whole corner.  The  back to the Yeard area and the Hedaquarters.... and estblish the tunnel portals then begin my run out into the scenic fun on January 1st.  The builds 1st year anniversary.        

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:42 PM

Jumijo
Great Divide, I'd love to hear about how you found a duplicate of Emma the dinosaur.

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Not a duplicate, but the STRATTON AND GILLETTE also has a version of the organic switch engine.

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-Kevin

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Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Great Divide on Thursday, November 14, 2019 2:27 PM

Ahhhhhh   perfect.   Ya just gotta love it...    What seems to be excellent detailed work and realistic features...  and the fun and confidence of being able to show off a dinosaur.  That is what this hobby is about.   

 

Randy 

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, November 14, 2019 2:52 PM

 Our protoype modeler's meet in September, we had a T-Rex win under the category of best 'other' motive power (ok, it was the only entry in the category). One of the exhibitors had a set of nicely done O scale models, and for whatever reason he had a somewhat undersize (maybe about S scale) T-Rex to set up with his loco display. The show organizer joked about putting a tag on it (each item gets a tag with a number and the category checked off, at voting time everyone grabs a ballot sheet and walks around and marks off their choices), so I mentioned the John Allen organic switcher. Later at voting time I saw it did get a tag, and probably half voted for it in the other motive power category, de facto winner. 

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Great Divide on Friday, November 15, 2019 8:24 AM

  

Emma brought more kids and even adutls into the hobby in her day (and even now) than most all of the rigid prototype niche combined.   This fact is a value that is hard to tally it SHOULD NOT be lost on any of us. 

 

 Realism and Prototpical are two different things.  In combination they can be inspiring...  But one is not relyant upon the other, nor automatically coupled.  Exellence in skillful modeling is just that and it is found in many of the sub groups within our hobby.    I have seen EXCELLENCE in the pursuit of realism within prototype modeling.   And that is an added fun for some of us, when the work is a representation of a real railroad and a real place..   Excellent.. !  Love it.   But realism can just as easily be achived in any given viewers mind by a freelance layout.  John Allen achieved this in hundreds of excellent scenes on his G&D layout.  Emma was only borought out on rare occasions.  HOW refreshing to know he enjoyed this relaxed, fun loving, quality in his life and in his work....  These qualities are endearing.   Arrogance is just the oposite.     Love Live Emma... and all her many inspirations..! 

    Very glad to see your group also has this fun loving quality Randy....  

 

  

The Great Divide    

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, November 15, 2019 12:02 PM

I've always enjoyed seeing a little 'fun' injected into model railroading. I sometimes miss the old "AWNUTS"  ("Always Whimsical, Not Usually to Scale") magazine, which had a lot of humor - and often, very good modeling.

Stix

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