Roundhouse old school 60' flat

[Graham Line]

Yeah. That's what a friend refers to as the "move the water heater" phase of building a railroad model.

[riogrande5761]

Graham Line

I made time for actual modeling by cutting back online surfing and forum commenting.

That kind of thing is probably true for many.

With a fixer upper house I just moved into a late last year, I honestly don't have that much time at home to spend online anyway - my wife makes sure of that, so there isn't that much to cut back. 

What free modeling time I do have is going into seven 2-packs of Wheels of Time lumber kits.  There are 2,352 parts that have to be de-sprued, cleaned up with a jewler file, unbowed and assembled into 784 stacks of lumber.  Then painted, and stacked in to loads and strapped with banding.  Yeah, thats my actual modeling time spoke for for a while.

I'm hoping to get working on finishing the basement next.  it is already framed in.  Then need to get outlets installed, then drywall and drop ceiling, then may start working on layout construction.  The house was neglected so my wife continues to find things needing work.

So yeah, lots of time to build and work on models!  

[Graham Line]

I made time for actual modeling by cutting back online surfing and forum commenting.

[j. c.]

forgot to add to other post , for weighting flats and empty gons i use 1/4 oz. stick on wheel weights  on the bottom side .

[dragonriversteel]

riogrande5761

 

 

dragonriversteel

 
Still prefer to build my own cars.

Not that the new Athearn cars aren't great just a bit overpriced . Then again metal wheel sets,detailing and ready to run.

Patrick

 

 

It must be nice to have the time available to mostly build a roster out of kits.  I just don't have that much time unfortunately.

As for the RTR 60' flat cars, I wouldn't pay $24 for one either.  I did pay $10 for one RTR at a show and the other two I have came with lumber loads - one of those I paid $20 for and the other around $26.

And as Rob Spangler has mentioned, by the time you add Kadee's, quality wheels and other parts, you aren't far from the street price of the RTR version anyway.

 

 

 Nah, slowly buying a roster for my scrap yard. A couple of kits here & there. Granted when ever I can sneak away to my workshop. Usually get caught...

 Agree with you an Rob. It would cost roughly the same.  

Patrick

[dragonriversteel]

j. c.

gons that were in scrap service were usuraly the most beat up  the link shows one that has some rough treatment and note the top cord is still straight but the panalls between the ribes are bulged out  http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ihb/ihb00313ggb.jpg  most top cord damage is denting  , also it appears as the sides might be splayed out  http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ihb/ihb00489gga.jpg  . the top cord on hoppers recives much more damage than gons.   the mine i worked at had to replace the loader opperator  that adjusted load weights on hoppers because the rr said he was causing to much damage to the cars.

 

 

 Thank you Jim . Growing up around a steel mill I witnessed a great many beat to death plant service cars. As you & others discribed.

Going to try to model these cars soon but like many others. To many projects going on.

Patrick

[dragonriversteel]

BigDaddy

Lead shot comes in a confusing array of sizes.   9 is .08" in diameter.  Bigger numbers are larger.  2 is 0.15"  Letter sized shot BB (0.18") B and T is even bigger, the buck shot also goes by numbers 00 being the largest.

Air gun BB is not lead, but steel, sometimes copper plated or washed.  Lead shot will always be more dense.

I use 2 shot, ...why?  Because it is no longer legal to hunt using lead shot on geese, so I have some extra shells, I cut the top off and salvage the lead. 

Find someone who shoots skeet, trap or sporting clays.  They probably reload their shells and buy lead in 25 pound bags.  

 

 

 Thank you Henry for the specific lead shot sizes. Was preplexed on the sizes. 

Patrick

[dragonriversteel]

Graham Line

We get more weight into these cars by nibbling away at the underframe molding and adding sheet lead sold as flashing. GE Silicone II sealant holds the lead in place.

 

 

 

 Thank you Graham Line. 

 

[riogrande5761]

BRAKIE

 

riogrande5761

I just don't have that much time unfortunately. 

Jim, Leave the TV room and go to your work bench and enjoy a evening of modeling and with today's TV shows your mind will thank you in the process.

Must be nice to be retired!

[BRAKIE]

riogrande5761

I just don't have that much time unfortunately.

Jim,Leave the TV room and go to your work bench and enjoy a evening of modeling and with today's TV shows your mind will thank you in the process.

Of course a basic car kit doesn't  have all the details but,they're far cheaper. A bag of IM 100 wheelsets  can go a long way-25 cars to be exact which is still cheaper especially if one needs a large car fleet.

[riogrande5761]

dragonriversteel

 
Still prefer to build my own cars.

Not that the new Athearn cars aren't great just a bit overpriced . Then again metal wheel sets,detailing and ready to run.

Patrick

It must be nice to have the time available to mostly build a roster out of kits.  I just don't have that much time unfortunately.

As for the RTR 60' flat cars, I wouldn't pay $24 for one either.  I did pay $10 for one RTR at a show and the other two I have came with lumber loads - one of those I paid $20 for and the other around $26.

And as Rob Spangler has mentioned, by the time you add Kadee's, quality wheels and other parts, you aren't far from the street price of the RTR version anyway.

 

[BRAKIE]

dragonriversteel

Still prefer to build my own cars.

Patrick,I hear ya! Thankfully those old kits can still be found on e-Bay and at train shows.

There is also a outfit on e-Bay that sells budget project cars that needs painting,decals,couplers and trucks. Some like the FMC 50' project boxcars needs weights. Still a good deal IMHO.

[j. c.]

gons that were in scrap service were usuraly the most beat up  the link shows one that has some rough treatment and note the top cord is still straight but the panalls between the ribes are bulged out  http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ihb/ihb00313ggb.jpg  most top cord damage is denting  , also it appears as the sides might be splayed out  http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ihb/ihb00489gga.jpg  . the top cord on hoppers recives much more damage than gons.   the mine i worked at had to replace the loader opperator  that adjusted load weights on hoppers because the rr said he was causing to much damage to the cars.

[Graham Line]

We get more weight into these cars by nibbling away at the underframe molding and adding sheet lead sold as flashing. GE Silicone II sealant holds the lead in place.

 

[mbinsewi]

Thanks for the link Dave, now I get what you were talking about, with the vice and wood blocks, in an earlier thread on the subject.

Mike.

[dragonriversteel]

Thank you Dave !

Gonna sneak out to my workshop and give it a try on old Tyco cars meant for the scrap yard scene anyway.

Patrick

[dragonriversteel]

BRAKIE

 

 

dragonriversteel

Just picked up three Roundhouse 60' trailer train flat cars. I haven't had these in years but remember the trucks rub the frame.

 

 

These are still being made by Athearn and sold under the Roundhouse name.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92694

 

 

Thanks Brakie for the link. 

Still prefer to build my own cars. Not that the new Athearn cars aren't great just a bit overpriced . Then again metal wheel sets,detailing and ready to run.

Nah,not just yet.

Thanks for the link anyway.

Patrick

[dragonriversteel]

Wayne,

 Thank you for the education. And thank you for mentioning a Solder Iron. I was getting geared up with a Heat Gun. Which would have been disasterous.

I have a couple of El cheapo Tyco cars that will be placed as freight cars being cut up for my scrap yard. What better use than learning.

Thanks Wayne.

Patrick

[dragonriversteel]

wp8thsub

 

 

dragonriversteel

That's an old school Roundhouse kit ? ...

What other HO treasures do you hold ?

 

 

An old Roundhouse car I paid all of $5 for from a box of kits a friend had.  I have all kinds of cheapskate cars hanging around.

 

 

 Fantastic work on your freight cars. As a matter of fact. I used your acrylic paint idea on my 60' Roundhouse flat trucks. Turned out great.

Thank you Rob.

 

[dknelson]

dragonriversteel

Dave,   You ever dabble with gondolas ? The sides being beaten & wharped. Anything like that ? If so could you do a tutorial if you get a chance ? If I remember correctly MR did a piece on just such a thing. Be darned if I can remember what issue. 

Patrick I follow the technique that Dr Wayne illustrates so well a few posts above this one.  I had a bunch of junk gons to practice on.  The first one was a disaster (which meant I practiced on every panel on both sides) but after that it worked well.  I hold the soldering iron in a vise and prop the car on wood blocks so when the "magic moment" when the plastic starts to sag happens (you'll know it when you see it but again it takes practice) I can grab the car and my blunt instrument to create the the bulge.  Don't try to hold the car in one hand and the soldering iron in the other.  The plastic will soften to be sure but you just can't react fast enough while setting down the soldering iron.

I think the article you refer to is the one by Tony Koester, which as it happens is available on this website: 

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/tips-projects/2014/05/add-wear-and-tear-to-a-steel-gondola

Tony uses the blunt end of a hobby knife to push out the plastic, but various shapes can produce various types of bulges and dents.  I have used dowels  Experiment!  And by the way other cars get dented too, including inward dents on some covered hoppers, and outward dents on boxcar roofs where fork lift jockies got over enthusiastic inside the car.

At one time MR had a nice video showing Tony and the method on this site but i cannot seem to find it now.  Years before Tony there was also an article in MR by Brian Holz using the same soldering iron idea and in fact it was even mentioned back in the 1950s in MR's old "Kinks" section. 

Too many guys think the idea is to gouge the interior of the gon with the soldering iron - while that can create interesting damage and bulges on the exterior, it makes the interior look like -- well, like plastic that has been gouged by a soldering iron.

The problem with the method which Dr Wayne mentions, and which can be seen on Tony Koester's car and a little bit on Dr Wayne's, is that the top chord of the gondola car sides takes on a strange rippled effect.  Top chords do get damaged too but don't look like that.  What I do is take the car, and scrape the top against a flat sheet of wood to which I have stapled sandpaper or other abrasive sheets.  that restores the mostly flat top surface of the chord.  Yes it thins the chord a little and some of the ripple remains, but it really does make the top edge of the gondola look more plausible and realistic at least it does to my eyes.

I show how I do the gons (and the flatcar decks, and steel flatcar decks with torched off steel supports for loads) as part of my weathering clinic that I have given at NMRA divisional and regional meets.  Because many modelers told me that my weathering clinics were of no value to them because I model in HO and they model in N, I bought a batch of cheap N scale gondolas at a swap meet and used the same soldering iron technique.  It works fine - I pass around two identical Bachmann Southern Ry gondolas, one in HO and the other in N, mounted together side by side.  I do the same with tank cars and box cars for the weathering techniques I use on those cars: HO and N together.  I understand N scale DOES involve some unique needs and challenges but it seems at least some N scalers are very quick to reject any advice or clinic or article that does not actually show N scale.  So I do!

Dave Nelson

[BRAKIE]

dragonriversteel

Just picked up three Roundhouse 60' trailer train flat cars. I haven't had these in years but remember the trucks rub the frame.

These are still being made by Athearn and sold under the Roundhouse name.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92694

[doctorwayne]

dragonriversteel

...You ever dabble with gondolas ? The sides being beaten & wharped....

Patrick, it's pretty easy to beat-up gondolas, especially the newer offerings with thinner bodies, although the technique will work on pretty-well any plastic-bodied car.
I use a soldering iron to heat the interior of the car at whichever point I want to create a bulge in the exterior or the car, but it's important to not let the iron actually touch the plastic.  I use a 200 watt iron, mostly because it's quick, but anything over 60 watts should work, too.
Once the plastic has softened (you'll get a "feel" for when it's ready), remove the iron, and use a rounded object (a suitably-sized screwdriver handle works well) to gently press the inside of the softened area to create a bulge on the exterior.  You can also use the tip of a screwdriver, in the same manner, to create sharper creases where the corner of a load (plate steel, f'rinstance) may have bumped the car's interior during loading or unloading.

This one's a Proto car from the "used" table at a nearby hobbyshop.  I replaced the broken plastic grabs and sill steps, and revised some of the dimensional data to place the car in my layout's late '30s period, then added the lading damage...

The third picture illustrates that "empty" gondolas seldom are truly empty.  I use loose loads, like the one shown, or unit loads built to fit specific cars (and so-labelled on their underside).

I probably should not have damaged the top chord on the side or put so much sag into the body, though - it does happen, but it's probably too extreme on a car of that age.  In my defence, I've seen probably hundreds of cars in much worse shape during my years working in a steel mill, and that probably influenced the process.  I've seen company-service 50 ton mill gondolas with a foot-and-a-half of slag, dirt, and gravel in them, loaded with over 150 tons of ingots.

Wayne

[maxman]

jrbernier

The cars are rather light, is I weighted them with #9 birdshot...

Which particular adhesive did you use to flow into the shot to keep it adhered to the car?

Thanks

MM

[dragonriversteel]

dknelson

 

 

hon30critter

Dave Nelson: Thanks for the tutorial. Very informative.

 

 

As with any skill or new technique it takes practice, but most of us have a supply of eligible "junkers" sitting in some box somewhere. 

The real point is, whether it's the original plastic or an after-market laser-cut wood deck, flatcar decks take a horrible beating in real life and to be modeled correctly you have to learn to (and be willing to) genuinely damage them - within reason of course.  

Dave Nelson

 

 

 Dave,

  You ever dabble with gondolas ? The sides being beaten & wharped. Anything like that ? If so could you do a tutorial if you get a chance ?

If I remember correctly MR did a piece on just such a thing. Be darned if I can remember what issue. 

Slowly getting a fleet of 50' gondolas to try this on. 

Patrick

[dknelson]

hon30critter

Dave Nelson: Thanks for the tutorial. Very informative.

As with any skill or new technique it takes practice, but most of us have a supply of eligible "junkers" sitting in some box somewhere. 

The real point is, whether it's the original plastic or an after-market laser-cut wood deck, flatcar decks take a horrible beating in real life and to be modeled correctly you have to learn to (and be willing to) genuinely damage them - within reason of course.  

Dave Nelson

[hon30critter]

Rob:

The acrylics look great on the deck!

Dave Nelson:

Thanks for the tutorial. Very informative.

Dave

[richg1998]

Nice ideas. I just found some sixty foot Roundhouse flat cars at River City Railroad. Not sure yet, that might be the same.

Rich

[BigDaddy]

Lead shot comes in a confusing array of sizes.   9 is .08" in diameter.  Bigger numbers are larger.  2 is 0.15"  Letter sized shot BB (0.18") B and T is even bigger, the buck shot also goes by numbers 00 being the largest.

Air gun BB is not lead, but steel, sometimes copper plated or washed.  Lead shot will always be more dense.

I use 2 shot, ...why?  Because it is no longer legal to hunt using lead shot on geese, so I have some extra shells, I cut the top off and salvage the lead. 

Find someone who shoots skeet, trap or sporting clays.  They probably reload their shells and buy lead in 25 pound bags.  

[wp8thsub]

dragonriversteel

That's an old school Roundhouse kit ? ...

What other HO treasures do you hold ?

An old Roundhouse car I paid all of $5 for from a box of kits a friend had.  I have all kinds of cheapskate cars hanging around.