Bubbytrains Unfortunately the belittling, condescending and nitpicking happens in all hobbies. Everytime I get sick of it in MR, I take a break and go to my other hobbies...only to be reminded the grass is not greener over there either. It's a symptom of a larger cultural problem, not just model railroading. I enjoy being a lone wolf. But if others saw my Blue Box cars, Atlas Snap Track, Boley vehicles, Model Power people, MRC D.C. powerpack, lichen scenery, craft store acrylic paint (I could go on and on...) a substantial portion would have a cow. And though they might not say so directly to me, there's a lot of general forum threads (on other MR forums too) that have to get their barbs in about what is "right."
Unfortunately the belittling, condescending and nitpicking happens in all hobbies. Everytime I get sick of it in MR, I take a break and go to my other hobbies...only to be reminded the grass is not greener over there either. It's a symptom of a larger cultural problem, not just model railroading.
I enjoy being a lone wolf. But if others saw my Blue Box cars, Atlas Snap Track, Boley vehicles, Model Power people, MRC D.C. powerpack, lichen scenery, craft store acrylic paint (I could go on and on...) a substantial portion would have a cow. And though they might not say so directly to me, there's a lot of general forum threads (on other MR forums too) that have to get their barbs in about what is "right."
I don't see where modelers, at least on forums, point out to others what is "wrong" with their layouts. I think people perceive some things that aren't there. In a club situation, or in-person visitors, maybe there are coments like that.
People have different interests. Keep in mind, those that are interested in "getting it right" probably have to do more research and engage in more discussion to achieve their goal than those who want to do it "their own way"
Really, how much discussion does it take to do something your own way? Nada. A discussion of 1 takes little time and little bandwidth to accommodate.
OTOH, folks who want to do it "right" probably dominate discussion forums, they have to because they need to gain knowledge, and that may sometimes appear as elitism, or that others are not welcome, when it is not. I think perception on the part of the listener sometimes exacerbates a minor point that wasn't meant to be.
- Douglas
Nothing lasts forever but these threads go on
All we do, turns the poor horse into some dust
Dust in the wind, all the horse is dust in the wind
(apologies to Kerry Livgren and Kansas)
My layout will never ever be a detailed as say George Sellios'. But you know what? I'm OK with that. If I invite someone in and they complain about it, they can just leave if they don't like it. I'm not building it to appease the public, I'm building it for me. Bottom line, that's all that matter. You get naysayers in every hobby. You really have 2 choices, maybe 3: submit, ignore them, or just leave the hobby. Ignore works for me, less stress and I still have fun.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SpaceMouse riogrande5761 Beating dead horses is what many specialize at here. Do you think there is a market for tenderized horse meat?
riogrande5761 Beating dead horses is what many specialize at here.
Do you think there is a market for tenderized horse meat?
Tenderized? How about atomized. There isn't really anything left but a few bones with some dried skin on it.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I understand, Allen. I just don't feel any pressure to make sure a picture I might post, is totally prototypical.
You can look at my Photobucket link, and my YouTube link, and see for yourself.
I'm NOT a rivet counter, and have never been accused of being one. If it looks good to you, it's good!
Model railroading is a fun hobby for me, done during long Wisconsin winters, and I'm under no pressure to make sure everything is perfect, in somebody else's mind, or eyes.
The first time your post appeared, the post that I responded to, was all one long paragragh, or I won't have said what I did.
Were all friends here, that's what it's all about. A hobby we all share, and learn from each other.
Mike.
PS. Ya, I get the spelling thing. I've always typed slower than what I'm thinking. There used to be a spell check in here, but that went away a couple of "upgrades" ? ago.
My You Tube
Alan, its alright I thought that the picture and video would get the idea across.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Steven,
Lol! I regret fanning the flames. I have edited my response to Mike to be civil.
Bubbytrains
Mike,
That's great that you are completely oblivious and immune from the (for want of a better term) "peer pressure" in the hobby. I've been in MR-Ing for almost 40 years, and I guess over these decades I have heard and read so much of the critics that it has been absorbed (perhaps without even realizing it) into my subconscious.
When I see an Accurail car I like, I recall the critics say "the ---RR never had that style of car."
Or, "it has molded-on details. That's so passé."
I still end up buying it. But, still, the "guilt" remains that many people consider my choices to be substandard. I'm afraid to share my work on weekly photo forums. It's not "good enough."
Alan
mbinsewi And my answer to your original statement, remains, NEVER, I have never bought anything that I thought might offend others. I buy what I want. Mike.
And my answer to your original statement, remains, NEVER, I have never bought anything that I thought might offend others.
I buy what I want.
I think we've entered into guerrilla territory, just sayin'
Thanks for your feedback. I have edited it for clarity.
mbinsewi The first time your post apperad, it was one big paragraph. Obviously, it has changed. That's why I replied the way I did. And my answer to your original statement, remains, NEVER, I have never bought anything that I thought might offend others. I buy what I want. Mike.
The first time your post apperad, it was one big paragraph. Obviously, it has changed.
That's why I replied the way I did.
mbinsewi Bubbytrains How many times have you considered buying some car or loco, and one of the questions you consider (how ever briefly) is "is is good enough in the eyes of others?" Be honest. Never. Your rambling could use a little seperation into paragraphs and sentences, as it is hard to read. But, ramble on if you must. Mike.
Bubbytrains How many times have you considered buying some car or loco, and one of the questions you consider (how ever briefly) is "is is good enough in the eyes of others?" Be honest.
Never.
Your rambling could use a little seperation into paragraphs and sentences, as it is hard to read.
But, ramble on if you must.
Thanks for your comments. I have tried to edit it for clarity.
Best,
BubbytrainsHow many times have you considered buying some car or loco, and one of the questions you consider (how ever briefly) is "is is good enough in the eyes of others?" Be honest.
It's pretty sad when we go to our hobbies to get away from the stress of the real world and find it follows us there. It's part of the reason I don't really like MR clubs. There are some good people but there is always at least one a.h., and that's all it takes to turn me off (and others I would imagine).
But like I said, it's not just MR. My brother stopped doing Civil War reenactments because of this kind of needless criticism and nit picking. It took all the fun out. Just ignore it? Well it's not as easy as that sounds. The criticism becomes invasive to our subconscious because it's so widespread. How many times have you considered buying some car or loco, and one of the questions you consider (how ever briefly) is "is is good enough in the eyes of others?" Be honest.
On another forum, I read a rant from a vloger about how Google and YouTube has changed the pricing structure and the "per click" format has changed.
He was complaining about how this was going to have such a negative affect on the hobby, and how are vlogers like him suppose to keep the hobby alive, and, of course make extra money.
I think this is all about "clickbait".
SpaceMouseDo you think there is a market for tenderized horse meat?
Fresh, frozen, or canned?
Edit: Never Mind!
Mission accomplished.
Thanks for all the positive feedback guys.
On YouTube at It's My Railroad
For the part of the OP about the hobby dying, it's not so much as tenderized horse meat as it is horse meat slurry by this point. (rather than complain about endless repetitions of the same topic, maybe I can just disgust it into ending )
riogrande5761Beating dead horses is what many specialize at here.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
originaldirtguy Weeeeeeeell, this is current information, and I have experienced some of the - shall we say - harsh? feedback, even on this forum, aparently the horse is not as dead as one would think. On the other hand, I suppose if someone posted here that they wanted to get into the hobby but they didn't know what scale to choose, we could also tell them that the horse was so dead it is petrified - or the creases were permanent here.
Weeeeeeeell, this is current information, and I have experienced some of the - shall we say - harsh? feedback, even on this forum, aparently the horse is not as dead as one would think.
On the other hand, I suppose if someone posted here that they wanted to get into the hobby but they didn't know what scale to choose, we could also tell them that the horse was so dead it is petrified - or the creases were permanent here.
Welll... I see you are a "relative" noobie here. Beating dead horses is what many specialize at here. That is trend you notice after some years go by.
originaldirtguyI just read an article by someone who was getting crap for their choice of rolling stock, locomotive, structures, etc for their model railroad. I also read an article that exclaims the younger crowd is shying away from the rails and the hobby is dying. I have some thoughts on this.
I get what your saying, and your response to this "article".
So, where did you read this? Any links? Any reference? so we can all share what the original author's article is? and the confrontation he received?
I can firmly document this phenomenon back into the 1940s, and I bet it started earlier. Just log on to the MR digital archive and browse the letter columns from the 40s and 50s."All this has happened before. And, it will all happen again." J. M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Different strokes for different folks though? I love reading the books by Tony Koester were he delves deeply into the dare I say thesis behind prototype adherance. I see it as the long term goal for my hobby.But... I also am willing to admit I am a beginner. I know it would be unfair to judge my current skills versus the rivet counting I want to do someday. So for now I am happy with slowly plugging away on my small switching layout when time/interest/money permits. However I have high respect for the slavish adherents of prototype, since I think their layouts raise the bar from just a toy train set up to a form of dare I say historical fiction or documentation? Fortunately though, I have not got guff from any of the local modelers over my layout's lack of completion. They seem content to see it as a beginer's set up, and I am happy to let them know that their near proffesional work is an inspiration to me. But... I also love some of the goofy stuff in the hobby world too. My other hobby is Lego collecting were frankly I don't care as much about prototype. If I can stack a bunch of Star Wars and Superhero figures together in some wacky diorama display I am content. Sadly, the Lego fan community in some ways has become toxicly obsessed with detail. I can only take so much complaint's about Grand Admiral Thrawn's minifigure rank emblem being wrong before I just shut off from the community as a whole. And I have shut off from a lot of the Lego community recently... because it seems people forget its just a children's toy and we are a bunch of adults still playing with it! I collect Lego still (my avatar should make that aparent), but its more and more of a lone wolf hobby for me away from the online community.
I have seen some of those same petty arguments I saw with Lego fans also affecting model railroaders. In a way perhaps I have said some of those petty comments on prototype myself (my opinions of the DRGW in Colorado as a layout theme have been well stated already, as silly as my opinion sounded). But... I think our hobby has plenty of room for more goofy expressions. I am not a fan of the "freelance everything can run, Big Boy pulling OO scale" type of layouts; but if the owner is having fun and enjoying it I will not dare to tell them their method is wrong and my view is right. They are having fun, and thats what matters in our hobby! And if a freelancer makes a weird theme and runs with it, more power to them! Haunted Ghost railroad? Sure why not! Railroad on Mars? In the Future? In the pre-historic era? I have respect to those who can take a fictional theme and make it cohesive and fun. However, I do think the adage "My Railroad My Rules" is a doubledge sword. If a modeler uses it to defend themselves from undue critics (especially the "I scratch build everything from brass with the original blueprints along with all the insects alive on the prototype day the railroad takes place; so you and your petty models are beneath me" types), the phrase is well used. But if a modeler is using the phrase to deflect fair criticism from their peers trying to help them improve their skills and using the phrase as a crutch to make shortcuts... it begins to lose its usefulness. Balance in all things.
Hallelujah brother! Preach on!
I think the snootiness of some people both in clubs and online communities is a bit of a problem, when I went to my second club for the first time everyone talked to me and was very friendly, the second time the put a throttle in my hands an gave me a manifest and I was sold I joined the club the following week. Point is "prototype" modeling is wonderful BUT if you have an imagination and want to "proto-freelance" you can, if you a have an "overactive" imagination you can "freelance", the point is this is ONE hobby albeit a multifaceted one we're all in the same boat! Now some guys suffer from paralysis of analysis and just because someone doesn't have a layout of meet someone's imagined quota for railroad projects doesn't make them less of a model railroader.
The point is do what's good for you or you're not good for anybody!
And if a someone doesn't like it that's their problem!
I don't think the hobby is dying!
This is a fresh change and this topic isn't dead!
On the other hand, I suppose if someone posted here that they wanted to get into the hobby but they didn't know what scale to choose, we could also tell them that the horse was so dead it is petrified - or the creases were permanent.
It's okay not to post if nothing positive can be communicated. I won't mind :)
originaldirtguy selector All of this has been spun so dry by now that the folds and creases are permanent. I am not entirely sure I understand your meaning. Could you elaborate? Thanks, s~
selector
All of this has been spun so dry by now that the folds and creases are permanent.
I am not entirely sure I understand your meaning. Could you elaborate?
Thanks,
s~
I'm not sure, but I think he might be implying that the horse (topic) has been previously beaten to death and further beating is not required.
But I could be wrong.
Anyone who isn't running their model railroad off their tesla coil isn't a real model railroader, Dadgummit. Now git the heck offa my lawn.
selector All of this has been spun so dry by now that the folds and creases are permanent.
I am retired, and frequently people will ask me "What do you do with your time?" I tell them that I am an avid golfer, amateur photographer and work on my model railroad. All of a sudden, they want to know about my railroad and start asking questions about it. The first theing that someone wants to see when they come over to my house is the train room.
Bear "It's all about having fun."