At our club we have been using JMRI for several years. I also operate on a club members layout that uses it, and I also used it for loco and car inventory. I am still building my layout and I'm getting to the point where I need to decide on an operating program that is easy to use and very flexible to make adjustments to.
After using JMRI for several years, the more I use it, the less I like it. It is very user unfriendly, hard to make it fit your layout, the instructions are very verbose, and unclear, and the results are seldom what you are trying to accomplish.
Does anyone have a commercial program that is very flexible, well written, and with good support, that you use and like?
Thanks, Joe
I agree with your evaluation of JMRI. Right now I am using EXCEL to generate switchlists. It is a bit tedious, however, and I am looking forward to reading other responses to your question.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearman I agree with your evaluation of JMRI. Right now I am using EXCEL to generate switchlists. It is a bit tedious, however, and I am looking forward to reading other responses to your question.
I agree with both. JMRI is very clever, perhaps a bit too clever. Complex instructions, complex explanations for simple problems, and far too many periodical updates, not all of which are completly compatible. The program was written and supported by an entire cadre of programmers, and it looks it. Not bad-mouthing anyone associated with JMRI. The Yahoo support group is always available and always gives prompt advice, but the advice is not always on point. It is very difficult to solve problems by committee. But it is free, and that is something.
I am also looking forward to something else. But in the meanwhile, I continue to use JMRI Version 4.8, or something.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Albion Software has a program called Shipit! But the download price is pricey at 110$
I think you're going to be disappointed in any computerized operations program. None of them are user friendly, it will not be easy to fit your layout, all directions will be verbose and unclear, and results will be difficult to predict.
Why? Because every layout is so different. Operations software has to conform to the 4'x8' bedroom layout and the 5000+ sq. ft. club. It has to handle business that can be both cyclical or simply direct. It has to handle mulitple staging yards or none at all. It has to handle layout without a yard or one that has half a dozen yards or more.
Personally, I gave up on the whole idea. I'm the Operations Chairman of my large club (65+ members, 10,000 sq. ft. club building), and at last count we had 600 freight cars on the layout (which is only half built). Managing the database was going to take all my time as members brought in their equipment or took it home...randomly.
We've gone back to car cards (3x5) and waybills (2x2), but now stuck into 3x4 clear plastic bags I buy at Michael's. I created my own database for the roster in FileMakerPro (it's like MS Access) that also creates the car cards and creates the waybills. But it does not handle car forwarding. That is done manually by AAR car code.
Years ago at the club we tried ShipIt, but could never get it to work properly on our layout. There were also 2 other programs that we tried and dumped, but I've forgotten what the names were. It's only been 30 years ago.
Joe
Edit: RailOP was one of the other's we tried.
Joe, so this might be a fool's errand?
Well, I guess I'm going to be the spoiler here.
I've used JMRI's DecoderPro for 15+ years, PanelPro for a somewhat shorter period, and Ops since shortly after it was added to the JMRI suite. I wouldn't be without any of them, nor have I had any issue tailoring them to my layout that hasn't been addressed (See comments below about "on-point" support) .
But before I started using JMRI's Ops, I demo'ed RailOp and ShipIt, as well as a couple other car-forwarding applications that were available at the time.
RailOp had a more polished gui, but was weak in ability, user support was poor, and it was eventually sold and subsequently abandoned by it's new owner.
ShipIt was expensive, and would end up clogging up your layout unless you also bought the 3rd-party "balancer". It simply didn't work without that balancer, so much so that Albion apparently bought the rights to it and integrated it into ShipIt. So it would seem that it's still broke, but at least they include a hammer now so you can whack it back into shape every so often.
All the other ones I demo'ed were also-rans for one reason or another. That was several years ago so I don't remember the details. Maybe they're better now, or new ones have been developed, but since JMRI's Ops works well I haven't had the need or desire to look into them again.
Oh, and as for the comment about the advice in the Yahoo! group not always being "on point" - After posting an Ops question about it's Alternate Track feature in that group, the main Ops developer contacted me off-list. After some discussion via email he made a change in how the that feature works to accommodate my question/request. It doesn't get much more on-point than that!
bearmanAlbion Software has a program called Shipit! But the download price is pricey at 110$
The program sounds great, and if you're a VERY accomplished database programmer, you MIGHT get it to work.
There's a guy on the ShipIt! Yahoo group who makes extra money contorting ShipIt! into doing what it's supposed to do right out of the box. He has several "add-ons" for the program, and Albion Software incorporated at least some of them into their software for a while, but a falling out led to them removing it.
You might take a look at ProTrak... http://protrak.org/wpt/
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
JMRI is the best of the various ones I've tried. Pretty much all of them have a complex set of instructions or worse yet, minimal instructins and complex interface. All rely on the developer's understanding of how a railroad works, which varies from good to really bizzare. Add in that the modeler may have their own different understanding of how things work or will have added "unique' twists to how they want things to operate which may or may not be anything close to "prototypical" and the software solutions all have limitations.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I just looked at the Pro Track website and it looks like it has been pretty dormant for a while. Then while I was browsing through the forum I came across this notice.
"James Moir passed away on September 13, 2017."
Jim was the owner and programmer of Pro Track.
Count me as in favor of JMRI. Strongly echo what Dave has said. The only thing JMRI does not do the way I want is brew my coffee!!
Old Fat Robert
On the Yahoo Group (if they haven't moved - I haven't seen a notification so I guess not) CarCards, Dave Husman has a very nice app called Car Card Generator that actually does a whole lot more - I mostly use it for inventory at the moment since I have no layout. It will inventory everything - locos, rolling stock, even layout components like DCC throttles. Not hard to define industries and the types of cars they take. Pretty much everything you can think of is available as a field, things like original coost, current value, type of trucks, type of couplers - besides the obvious stuff like AAR car type, reporting marks, etc. You cna use as much or as little of that as you want, only the fields you need to make cards and switch lists are actually required, the rest of the inventory info is handy for maintenence purposes and even insurace purposes - you can attach a photo of each car or loco. Because of the way my server works, I have a copy of my inventory (including my stack of unbuilt kits) stored securely off site in case of disaster.
It's pretty easy and friendly to use, and setting up your layout isn't difficult. If you have a lot of rolling stock it may take a while to get it all keyed in, but once I started I now keep up with every new purchase. There is a handy train show report you can print out and take to train shows so you don't buy duplicates.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I just checked Protrak, and that is even pricier than Shipit! I think I will stick with EXCEL.
Full disclosure: I don't use a computer list program, I use car cards and waybills because, as I said, we all have our opinions on how things should work, and as well as JMRI works, it would take a lot of work on my part to get it to work the way I want. I can get 75-80% of the way easily, but the last 20-25% would be more work than I want to invest.
CC&WB is easier for me to get what I want.
Randy, is there a link to that Car Card program?
Gary
Just an observation. I firmly beleive that most utility software has poor operability, and the reason is that they let the geeks design the user interface. Geeks (like me) don't think like normal people, and they forgive clumsy operation because they like computers. When I wrote UI software for a Fortune 500 business machine company, we were NOT allowed to design the operation scenarios. We had a group of people in the Human Factors group who did that.
But don't feel bad. Most of the business-to-business software I've used in the last fifteen years is no better. It adds a long learning curve that gets in the way of people actually getting the information entered, or the data transferred, or the shipping done, or ...
OK I feel better now. BTW, I use car cards too. I use Excel to generate the cards and car envelope labels, but that's just a convenience.
Genesee Terminal, freelanced HO in Upstate NY ...hosting Loon Bay Transit Authority, run through Amtrak and CSX Intermodal
CP/D&H, N scale, somewhere on the Canadian Shield
When we started out at the club we used car cards. Also a member used to have sessions and he used car cards. I am familiar with them, but the only thing I didn't like about the process was the lack of information associated with it. I may have to break out my college Basic textbook and write my own program. Or not, we'll see.
I want to thank all of you for your input and comments.
josephbw When we started out at the club we used car cards. Also a member used to have sessions and he used car cards. I am familiar with them, but the only thing I didn't like about the process was the lack of information associated with it. I may have to break out my college Basic textbook and write my own program. Or not, we'll see. I want to thank all of you for your input and comments. Joe
Hey Joe,
Can you kinda share what you have been doing and what you plan to do?
Also, bearman, can you provide some info on your Excel spreadsheet (or maybe just a screen image)?
I'ver been thinking along these same lines. Right now I'm spending a lot of time and energy constructing the layout, but it's never too soon to plan for future operations. Randy mentioned CarCards, and I checked out the JMRI Yahoo group and got quite a few hits on the search. That might lead to something, but in the meanwhile I can start a roster of rolling stock using Excel in a format that can be exported/imported across various software platforms. I already have a roster of locos in DecoderPro.
Thanks,
Joe, I think you are on the right track with breaking out your BASIC textbook. If anyone has programming skills probably the only way to get what you want is to write it yourself. Years ago (more than I care to remember) on a previous layout I used good old GWBASIC on a Radio Shack TRS-80 to generate car movements. Printed them on a 300 baud teletype printer. Ah, the good old days. MR even bought the article from me but never published it. User interfaces vary from the good the bad and the ugly. I think all UI developers should be required to read Alan Cooper's book, "About Face, the Essentials of User Interface Design".