I have a bunch of Kato F7B units (N scale) I am setting up for DCC on my Santa Fe layout. Since none have visible number boards that I can use for DCC purposes, I am curious how others have physically tagged their F7B units so they can visually identify each unit?
I am currently thinking of a number sticker on the underside but that would require me to pick up the loco to identify it. Not desirable but doable. Other option is to apply a small number decal somewhere visible on body such as on the front end bulkhead. Any other better options I am missing?
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
I put engine numbers on the lower rear panel. That way they are large enough to read without a magnifying glass.
I have also seen them under the cab and door windows.
Click on picture for a better view.
In the forties-fifties F units generally were used in sets, so like an A-B set of F units would be drawbar connected and treated like one engine - so for many railroads the B unit wouldn't have a number on it. If these railroads later added couplers so they could run the A and B units separately, they added a number then. Depending on the railroad you model, that might give you a reason to add a number - even if it's slightly out of synch with your layout's time period.
For example, Great Northern F7s originally were A-B drawbar connected sets. The B-units didn't have a road number. Later, when they broke up the sets (c.1960), they assigned separate numbers to the B units.
For model purposes, all my F B-units are drawbar connected to an A unit, so both just use the ID number of the A unit - even if the B unit has it's own number.
If you've got b-units that aren't numbered, you could arrange to tell them apart by their differences in detailing, or with weathering.
Maybe one B unit has exhaust mufflers. Or silver painted exhaust stacks. Or a small ding in the roof. Or a "special" pipe that sticks up out of the forward hatch. Or the same, but in a different location. Or some specks on the roof where something dripped.
An interesting question. My "earliest" diesels is/are the first F's that SP&S got: a two unit set of F3A's (not drawbarred). Yup, each one has an "800" in the numberboards. But, in this case, they each had TEENY little numbers down on the sides: 800A-1 and 800A-2. As you can imagine, that didn't work out so well, so they were renumbered to 800 and 801 about 3 years later. What took them so long?
Ed
I don't know much about DCC, but this might be a solution.
.
Since F/B units were normally paired with F/A units, why not just add an "8" to the A unit for the B unit number? An "8" looks kind of like a "B".
F7A: Number 407 on the numberboards
F7B: Make it number 4078
Would this work?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190why not just add an "8" to the A unit for the B unit number? An "8" looks kind of like a "B". . F7A: Number 407 on the numberboards F7B: Make it number 4078 . Would this work?
F7B: Make it number 4078 .
Yes, it would work, then the B units would have to be added to consist with the A units as programmed into the DCC. No details, as each DCC manufacturer seems to have their own way of creating a consist.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
SeeYou190 I don't know much about DCC, but this might be a solution. . Since F/B units were normally paired with F/A units, why not just add an "8" to the A unit for the B unit number? An "8" looks kind of like a "B". . F7A: Number 407 on the numberboards F7B: Make it number 4078 . Would this work? . -Kevin .
The OP is asking how to tell B units apart when they don't have numbers placed on the models. Not how to choose a DCC address.
7j43kThe OP is asking how to tell B units apart when they don't have numbers placed on the models. Not how to choose a DCC address.
Well, that is not exactly clear. He says :"Since none have visible number boards that I can use for DCC purposes,...".
I don't know what he intends to do. If all the B units look alike, then I don't see any reason to swap them around with a mating A unit. If that is the case, then I would just give the B unit decoder the same address as the A, and run the set that way.
But if they all are different, then I think a written list would work and it wouldn't be necessary to roll the unit on its back to check its gender.
maxman I don't know what he intends to do. If all the B units look alike, then I don't see any reason to swap them around with a mating A unit. If that is the case, then I would just give the B unit decoder the same address as the A, and run the set that way.
You are assuming that there is "a mating A unit" for a particular B. And thus there would be AB "sets".
He does not say that he wants to do that. He says he has "a bunch of Kato F7B units". And he wants to know how to tell them apart. By looking at them.
What if he wants to run an A and three B's? What if he wants to run a B and a GP9?
Perhaps the OP will reappear and offer further comments on the matter.
Since the OP mentioned having a Santa Fe layout, I suspect what he has are some ATSF B-units from Kato that came (like the original prototype) with just the RR name on the side of the B-units:
http://www.katousa.com/N/F7/176-2214.jpg
Anyway, if the OP has several B units without an engine number, it's because they're models of B units that were not meant to be used separately, but were part of an A-B (or A-B-A, or A-B-B-A) set. A B-unit that's not connected to an A-unit with a drawbar would be considered a separate locomotive, and would be required to have the railroad name (or initials) and number on it to be legal to use on a train.
As I mentioned earlier, some railroads bought A-B sets of drawbar connected F units and only had the RR name and engine no. on the A unit. Often they later broke up the sets and replaced the drawbars with couplers so the A and B units could be used separately in different combinations. When they did that, they had to add identifying information on the B unit. (Note that all railroads broke up the sets. IIRC Northern Pacific used Fs in dedicated A-B-B-A sets up to the BN merger in 1970.)
I suspect if ATSF broke up their sets, you would find pictures from say the sixties or seventies with B units that by then had separate numbers added to them. I would just use that to number the B units, even if the OP is modelling an earlier time.
p.s. re the original post - B units didn't have number boards like A units, the railroad just painted the railroad name, number, slogan etc. on the sides.
My reading of the original post is that the OP wants to keep his various A's and B's loose. And not have to try to remember which A unit got THIS B unit.
Myself, if I had a B unit that always ran with a particular A unit, I expect I'd use a drawbar, instead of couplers. And I'd assign the same address to both.
Once couplers were used instead of drawbars, each B-unit would have its own number. Sometimes it was purely numeric, other times alpha-numeric, as in (BLE) 712B. Since a B-unit was unlikely to be the lead engine on a train the number did not need to be clearly visible to other trains and track workers, so some roads used a very small font. But the number would be there somewhere on the body. Perhaps some may have been only on the end and not the side; anybody know of prototype examples?
In the early days railroads might try to keep cab unit sets together, but soon the convenience of simply pooling the As and Bs became obvious. It didn't make any difference to operations if 712A was coupled to 715B instead of 712B, and if 712B was under repair it was stupid not to continue using the numerically matching A-unit. Once repaired it might join up with some other A-unit for a while.
Drawbars were used as a way to show that a set of diesels made one "locomotive" under the union contract. Once that dispute was cleared up the drawbars were upgraded to couplers so the units could be mixed as needed.
Lee
Lee 1234If the original poster is indeed modeling the Santa Fe, the Santa Fe Historical Society website has all the information he would need for the correct numbers for B units
http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/CrossetGene/ATSF_master_diesel_roster/index.htm
and where to put the number.
https://sfrhms.org/product/santa-fe-diesel-locomotive-painting-guide/
As the OP, it appears I need to add some info. I have enough Kato F7A and F7B units in both red/silver and blue freight to make multiple ABBA and ABBBA consists in each style. In general, I will be making up consists that will stay together most of the time. However, if I want to get my hands on a specific B unit, for periodic consist shuffle or loco maintenance, finding a specific loco will be like a needle in a haystack search without some visual aid. I have seen pics of B units with a number on the end but tiny decals are a chalenge for my at my age so I was looking for other options.
Since these loco's will be tied to a consist most of the time, I think my best approach will to put a number under the loco. Since I can easily determine which consist has the B unit I am looking for, I have limited my haystack search to small haystacks.
I have a labeling machine that can make labels with small letters that will easily fit under the fuel tank and be out of sight. The labels can also peel off if I need to change one.
Now if I can make my old hands get those pesky front couplers back installed after I remove the shells for a decoder.
Thanks for the help.
I am fortunate as the PRR had large numbers in the lower corner of the side body.
All Santa Fe F units, A or B, had the number in pretty small lettering at the end of the sill. In warbonnet paint, it was in black on the red stripe. http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG22604
You can barely read the "42C" to the right of "WATER". Of course, I do not know if KATO N B units show this number and if it is readable.
Kato N scale Santa Fe units have no such number marking. With a strong magnifing glass, I can make out the word "Water"as well as "F" on forward end but no numbers on A or B units. Even if I tried to put some numbers in that location, it would be of little use to me without a good magnifing glass.
I have put a label with the DCC address on the botttom of each unit and I am happy with that. Only way to see it it to turn the loco over but I am OK with that.
A I recall, the Milwaukee actually used this color scheme for F3 locomotives.
I simply kept all the road numbers unique and added A or B to the end as appropriate. The A and B designations don't figure in the DCC universe anyway. All of these are old Athearn BB models, and all the A units were numbered 2376, so I had to make up decals anyway. The original numbers were in pale yellow on an orange background, and the small font made them difficult to read, so I went with larger black lettering to make it easier on my old eyes.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
And, my only B units are, as follows:
1 - Erie RR FB-2, and the Erie used numbers on their B units.
2 - 2 PRR E8-B units, given to me by a friend with a matching A unit, and the PRR used numbers on the B units as well.
So, my B units already came numbered.
Now, I just need to add decal numbers to a EL FA-2 unit that was somehow missing them from the factory.... I programmed it to the number on the box, then looked at the unit on my program track, and said "well, dog-gone it"....
Glad I kept the box...
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.