Some of you may have heard of my distruction of a 2-6-0 tender truck trying to solder a track lead back on. At first, I blamed it on cheap plastic on the truck, which it clearly is, but that doesn't really do me any good.
Anyway, this is what it looks like since I changed it's engineering dynamic.
The point is, I may be faced with a similar situation, possibly sooner rather than later if the replacement truck comes without pick-up wires attached.
If I knew what I was doing, I probably would not have melted the truck. So I've been researching. What I've found is that ideally, I should have been heating the the truck with the iron for a maximum of two seconds. I heated the post on the truck for more like 10 seconds.
The fact that the solder on the post did not melt within the first two seconds should have been an indication I needed to make an adjustment.
What exactly needed to be done was to apply more heat for a shorter lenghth of time--and there are multiple ways of doing so.
1) Increase the temperature of the iron.
2) use a bigger tip
3) created larger surface area of contact by adding solder.
4) clean the surface
As to which one would work the best, the answer is sort of, "you'll get a feel for it." One can only hope.
I was using a 25W Weller pencil. I also have a Weller Gun 140/100W, a Radio Shack 40W pencil, and a black thing that looks like it could warm a cup of tea in under an hour as well. Now someone suggested I get a variable soldering station and that actually looks pretty good for the amount of soldering we have to do in this hobby.
So I know some of you know soldering like the back of your... uh, we'll go with hand. Feel free to jump in and comment where you like.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouse 1) Increase the temperature of the iron. 2) use a bigger tip 3) created larger surface area of contact by adding solder. 4) clean the surface
For quick in and out work, 2 is better than 1. Of course, there can be a problem if the "bigness" of the tip gets in the way.
4: Yeah, the surface has to be clean. Enough.
3: Works sometimes, but 2 is better.
I use flux on pretty much every connection I make. As an experiment, I tried a couple of joints with flux-core only, and didn't like the flow. Bad part with flux is cleaning it off.
I believe your "iron" should be in contact with the work for the briefest time possible--a couple of seconds, maybe. Ideally.
You need a bit of solder on the tip to aid in heat transfer, also.
You know, it's OK to do practice pieces until you get good enough. As opposed to practicing on important pieces "to destruction".
Ed
7j43kI use flux on pretty much every connection I make. As an experiment, I tried a couple of joints with flux-core only, and didn't like the flow. Bad part with flux is cleaning it off.
I'm starting to lean this way.
7j43kYou know, it's OK to do practice pieces until you get good enough. As opposed to practicing on important pieces "to destruction".
I'm okay at the things I do a lot of--Fastracks, feeders. etc. When I saw the loose itty-bitty wire and a glob of solder on the truck post, I didn't even consider that ti would be anything but easy-peasy.
This looks like the part you are trying to repair. The metal is underneath.
I would try to scratch the spot with an Xacto knife., use a dot of rosin flux, hot pointed soldering iron tip and rosin solder.
A few years ago I had to do a similar repair job on a Bachmann 44 tonner. Had to scratch the coating on the metal to bare metal.
Or get a new truck from Bachmann. Look at the Parts page where I got this link.
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/517XX-OOQO1-PR.png
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I was terrible at soldering when I started. I had watched several tutorials on Youtube before I started soldering feeders to my track. It looked so easy. I bought a pen type soldering iron and some solder and went right at it. The first few feeders went on just like in the videos. Then it got harder to get the solder to flow, then I was melting ties and foamboard. I made a heatsink and that helped.
Then I found a video that was just about soldering, not just soldering track feeders. Starting with the basics I learned to prepare the tip and coat it with solder first. I bought a wire tip cleaner to replace the sponge I was using.
My tip wasn't getting clean enough to heat the solder well. I'm still far from an expert but I can hardwire decoders and and not melt things. My biggest lesson was keep the tip and the part you are soldering clean and use flux. I generally tin both the part I'm going to solder to and the wire then touch them together with a little solder on the tip of the iron. A good joint in a second.
I also found an easy way to put feeders on a tender truck. I think it was from a video that was linked on this forum. Just drill a hole through the truck and put your phosphor bronze wire through it and secure with AC Solder your wire to the board to the wire pickup.
Jeff White
Alma, IL
Harold's suggestions might work. I have used it some years ago.
http://www.chainsawjunction.com/1879/nt_440/wipers/
richg1998Harold's suggestions might work.
I haven't seen or heard anything from Harold in years.
I don't need to create wipers, that's all built into the truck. All I had to do was attach a loose feeder wire to a post on the truck.
JWhitehen I found a video that was just about soldering, not just soldering track feeders. Starting with the basics I learned to prepare the tip and coat it with solder first.
I'm watching a vintage (non-eBayers this means old but not necessarily valuable) video series by Pace intending to instruct future electronic engineers how to solder. It is heavy on theory.
richg1998Or get a new truck from Bachmann.
Actually, the truck is off an MDC Roundhouse 2-6-0 tender. I'll definately need a new truck no matter what.
I have a few MDC Roundhouse tender trucks with all wheel pickup I do not need. PM me with address. I can send one out Monday.
When Athearn bought the line, they went to all wheel pickup on the tender. I bought a few trucks, frames a few years ago from Athearn and do not do model railroading anymore eyes and hands shake a little. I just noticed a couple sitting near me.
I had their new 4-4-0, 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 and some pre Athearn 2-6-0 and a 2-8-0 that is now a 1855 Winans 0-8-0.
Even from your original post of the screw-up with the tender truck, it wasn't clear to me why you would be soldering something on the plastic part of the truck.
Most tender-mounted pick-ups are attached to a washer-like item held in place with the same screw that holds the truck in place, and that screw is usually capped by a nut, which keeps everything in-place and together. If you needed to re-solder something onto the washer-like thingy, the proper procedure would be to disassemble things so that the parts to be soldered could be apart from the plastic stuff. If you'd had the parts separate, it would've been much easier to do. Cleaning the surfaces to be soldered, and using a separate solering paste definitely do make the whole process easier. If you want more heat faster, use a larger iron. I used a 200watt iron to do most of my rail joiners, but heat sinks were a must. I could have melted that whole tender for you.
Wayne
an altrnative that hasen't been mentioned is to get a reisance unit , puts heat right where it is needed. a 0 to 100 watt unit handles most all soldering jobs in ho.
Something I like to do when soldering and want a quick cool down after the joint has been made:
Have a small wet sponge or piece of paper towell very wet near by, and quench the joint the instant you're done making it. PSHHT!
Dan
look here.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soldering-Iron-Station-X-Tronic-Model-4010-XR3-75-Watt-Digital-LED-Display/112629323482?epid=28011992070&hash=item1a393b16da:g:fHoAAOSwhDBZ~env
doctorwayne it wasn't clear to me why you would be soldering something on the plastic part of the truck.
Okay, my camera will actually pick up the detail. The one on the right is the one i diddn't touch. The one on the left is toast.
I'm not sure if the little metal post is slid into place, pressed, or glued, but it definately contacts the plastic. This picture is better than I can see it with reading glasses. Top notch work as only an 8 year-old Chinese worker can do.
As I said before, I only touched the metal with the iron.
doctorwayne I could have melted that whole tender for you.
This is good to know. I may have a couple to send you. I invited Randy to come over and help with my wiring.
Southgatelook here.
I don't want it unless I can melt a tender with it.
Space Mouse <-- iron envy.
I'm getting some insurance money soon. Maybe they will still be around.
PS I saw a video today where these were rated the #2 best iron in 2017. Only a similar type Weller fared better.
j. c. an altrnative that hasen't been mentioned is to get a reisance unit , puts heat right where it is needed. a 0 to 100 watt unit handles most all soldering jobs in ho.
In this case, I'm not sure how a resistance unit would be better than a variable soldering pencil type iron. I needed a hot iron with a small tip. That post is barely 1/16"
I just looked at the ones I an sending you and I can see the challenge. The metal side frame is just inside the plastic sideframe.
Some years ago you could buy the truck from Athearn along with the tender frames and pickups for the DCC locos including the windows. I had a couple MDC, Roundhouse 2-6-0 with Wild West livery that I wanted to upgrade to DCC sound.
If I find anything more, I will include it.
richg1998I just looked at the ones I an sending you and I can see the challenge. The metal side frame is just inside the plastic sideframe.
Thanks again Rich. I just wish I could have picked up the challenge before I jumped in.
BONUS. Parts need a home. Three sets of trucks and three frames heading out Monday.
Slowly giving away stuff to new homes.
richg1998 BONUS. Parts need a home. Three sets of trucks and three frames heading out Monday. Slowly giving away stuff to new homes. Rich Rich
Very cool.
By the way, I have probably 3 of those blue tubey, solder sucker-upper thingies and I have no idea how to use them. Probably tomorrow I am going to desolder the feeders from my Fastrack turnouts, and I figure this might be a good time to learn what they are for.
It always seemed like they took more hands to use than I had.
Chip,
I'm willing to bet that would not have happened if You used a Silver bearing solder paste and a 1/16 tip iron. I use both....I have a variable temp. iron by Mudder and the changeable tips go down to pointed or chizel 1/16''. The solder paste I use is by Solder-It. Flux is already in the paste and it has a low temp. melting point,,,the bond is 6 times stronger than regular solder and You have one hand free...no need to hold the solder and the iron. The paste is a little more expensive than regular solder.......But to Me, that's a moot point...because it works better.
In this pic' is an all brass rod, 1/32'' and 3/64'' soldered together using the paste, along with the 1/16'' tip. It is a Truck tire rack......not commercially made anywhere. You can get plastic car tire racks...but not for truck tires so I made My own.
Take Care!
Frank
Edit: Didn't mention it in My post....but I totally agree with Randy....every joint in that little tire rack, before touching the solder paste, I run through the damp sponge that is built into the solder iron stand so it has a shiny tip without any black oxidation on it.
Keys to soldering:
1. clean tip
2. clean tip
3. clean tip
Whatever iron you use, the tip should be shiny and clean - this is what gets you good fast heat transfer to the work. If the tip is dirty, if it's black (really bad - maybe better to get a replacement at that point) or dull looking, it will take much longer to get the piece you are touching up to temperature to melt solder. That means there is more time for heat to migrate to other parts of the same piece of metal, and plastic softening temperature is well below solder melting temperature. The the tip is nice and clean and shiny, the heat moves quickly from the iron tip to the work. The work spot will heat up faster than extra heat can migrate to where you don't want it.
Excess heat is the enemy of the soldering iron tip. The hotter it is, the easier ir oxidizes. A typical "on as long as it's plugged in" soldering iron just hepps getting hotter and hotter until an equilibrium is reached between heat loos into the air and the heat that can be generated by the heating element. Same size tip, a higher wattage iron will get hotter. But that temperature is way beyond what is needed for soldering, and when soldering within the vacinity of somethign that can melt, too hot is just as bad as not hot enough or too dirty.
Clean joint area is important as well. I tend to not use flux for just wires, or many times on circuit boards, but i DO use flux for feeders to the rail and rail joiners - even brand new rail is usually somewhat dirty, as it's not packaged in air tight packages, and there may be residue from the machining processes used to make it. For example, so solder rail joiuners, I put a little flux in the joiner (I use a paste kind), slip the rails together, then apply the soldering iron to the inside of the joint (where you don;t want a big solder blob that can interfere with the flanges) and the solder to the outside. The flux will activate and the solder will wick in under the joiner and attach everything without forming a blob. I run the iron tip back and forth along the point where the joiner and rail meet to flow it evenly along the whole length of the joiner. haven't melted a tie yet.
One way to avoid overheating the iron is to use a temperature controlled station. They vary in proce, but the key feature of a true temperature controlled station is that it actively measure the temperature at the tip and tuens the element on and off as necessary to maintain the temperature you dial in on the base.
You don;t have to spend a lot of money for this - the one I have (and I think Selector, and at least one other person here) is the Xytronics LF-389. The current model is the LF-389D (I've had mine at least 10 years now), which has a digital display instead of a plain knob to set the temperature. It had been the same price, $49.95, for a long time, but it's finnaly increased - $52.95 now. I'd put it against anything $100 or less. Like I said, I've had this about 10 years now, and STILL use the original tip. I did order a few of alternate size, but the standard one has worked for everything.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SpaceMouse j. c. an altrnative that hasen't been mentioned is to get a reisance unit , puts heat right where it is needed. a 0 to 100 watt unit handles most all soldering jobs in ho. In this case, I'm not sure how a resistance unit would be better than a variable soldering pencil type iron. I needed a hot iron with a small tip. That post is barely 1/16"
puts heat where you need it , so you are not wating for heat transfer.
SpaceMouse...I'm not sure if the little metal post is slid into place, pressed, or glued, but it definately contacts the plastic....
Thanks for the photo: it clearly explains the set-up with which you were dealing. I'd guess that the heat was being dissapated throughout the metal, from that little tab atop the bolster, all the way to whatever was used to contact the wheels, so no chance for a quick job if the heat was leaving faster than it could be added
If the wire broke off, but the original glob of solder was still intact on the truck, all you needed to do was re-strip the end of the detached wire, tin it, then, while holding the tinned end of the wire against the glob, touch it with the hot iron - the joint would have been made almost immediately. If I'm soldering on things near plastic, I use bits of wet paper towel or tissue to prevent heat transfer, from the item being soldered, to the plastic.This tender ladder, with curved rungs, needed to be assembled in-place in order to keep the proper orientation of the curves, and the proper spacing of the stiles...
With the stiles and rungs cleaned of oxidation by dragging them through a folded sheet of wet/dry sandpaper, I added the stiles to the plastic tender, temporarily ca'ing them in place. A small wad of wet tissue was placed at each point of contact between the stiles and the plastic.
I then inserted a pre-cut (a little bit longer than needed) rung in each pair of holes, added a dab of paste flux to all of those joints in the right-hand stile, then holding the solder on the outside of the stile at each joint in turn, touched the iron to the inner side of the same joint - the solder flowed almost immediately.
When the right side had been done, I added a small wad of wet tissue to all of those joints, then repeated the procedure on the left side. The completed ladder was then removed, with the excess wire and solder removed with the face of a cut-off disc in a rotary tool, finishing up with a fine needle file.
rrinker. If the tip is dirty, or dull looking, it will take much longer to get the piece you are touching up to temperature to melt solder.
I think you nailed it. I was using the 25W Weller and the tip was dull. When I went through my stuff later, I found a 45W Radio shack that had a nice clean shiny tip. Not new, just maintained. I think before I went on hiatus, I had learned this lesson and retired the Weller.
rrinkerYou don;t have to spend a lot of money for this - the one I have (and I think Selector, and at least one other person here) is the Xytronics LF-389. The current model is the LF-389D (I've had mine at least 10 years now), which has a digital display instead of a plain knob to set the temperature. It had been the same price, $49.95, for a long time, but it's finnaly increased - $52.95 now.
Okay, I'm convinced. Southgate found me one on eBay for $39 new. And just today I watched a video ranking it #2 in the top 10 solder systems in 2017.
Thanks for taking the time to make such a long post.
j. c.puts heat where you need it , so you are not wating for heat transfer.
I've been hearing about these for a couple of decades and I'm sure they are quite effective. I've just never seen a tip that would fit this application.
I did see an American Beauty tweezer grip that might work, but it was a $250 add-on to a much much more expensive system. The systems I saw under $100 had 1/4 inch tips or larger. Certainly I saw nothing that would create a resistance current within the 1/16th" pad.
doctorwayneIf the wire broke off, but the original glob of solder was still intact on the truck, all you needed to do was re-strip the end of the detached wire, tin it, then, while holding the tinned end of the wire against the glob, touch it with the hot iron - the joint would have been made almost immediately.
You see that was my exact plan.
I think that Randy nailed it. I was using my weakest iron with a dull tip.
And when I get a replacement, I'm going submerge the truck in liquid nitrogen with just the solder pad showing.
zstripe: Didn't mention it in My post....but I totally agree with Randy....every joint in that little tire rack, before touching the solder paste, I run through the damp sponge that is built into the solder iron stand so it has a shiny tip without any black oxidation on it.
I think you nailed the issue here.
Nice tire racks.