So I decided to test my locos on a 6% grade today. For one reason or another, I had trouble getting them to work. Most of them were programming issues, but I'll deal with that on the DCC forum.
I'll just tell you about the wierd stuff.
First of all, I have a Roundhouse 2-6-0 that from the look of the parts list, looked to have a decoder installed. Anyway it wouldn't accept programming so I decided to check if it did actually have a decoder, It didn't, what it had was a wierd type of circuit board that wired everyting from one decoder harness to another type, and had additional leads for rear pick-ups and rear lights. (on the sheet the board was labeled "no sound.") Anyway when I started to take it apart, I noticed one of the rear pick-ups misssing and I figured I'd solder it back when I put it back together. I found the loose lead inside the tender, and heated the solder joint on the truck to reattach the wire. I swear, I only touched the wire post on the truck, but when the wire was attached, the truck was warped beyond comprehension.
The the good news is, the 2-6-0 had a straight 9-pin type wiring harness, and although I was expecting the 4+4 type harness, I had a decoder that fit.
But it doesn't get any better. Right after, I pulled out my Shay. I was saving it for last as it has always been my best puller. The first thing I noticed is that the rear drive shaft was disconnected. With a little work, I got it reconnected. So I started the test.
After I got it running, I hooked it up to all six test cars. I figured if the Climax could do six, the Shay should rip it up. It spun in place. Gradually reducing the car load to 3, the Shay started moving. I noticed a piece of debri wedged in the front driver and litterally causing the truck to jump up when it went around. I removed it and found it to be a gear that was used to transfer the torque from the drive shaft to the wheels. It was obvious where it went, so I got my tweezers intending to put the gear back--it shattered. I was wasn'nt even holding it tightly. I figure it must have broken before it came off, and the tweezers were just finishing the split.
So, I don't even have a piece of track layed and I've already put two engines out of commission.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Hey, Chip, that'd be a bad day on anyones RR. Soldering irons and I don't tend to get along particularly well either. That's the one tool you don't want to be if you belong to me!
You've been around long enough to hear all the "just-walk-away-and-cool-off" advice, but ya know, a guy just needs to vent a little sometimes. I'm here to say I know the feeling.
Better days at the bench will come. Dan
Shucks!!! I have read far and wide that the Shay has been a problem child for Bachmann. You'll need the kit from NWSL which, I hear, makes it a darned sight better.
Sorry about that, Chip. I hope you can get parts from Bachmann for the 2-6-0.
That Bachmann Shay Drive Gear Issue is VERY COMMON. Just about everybody has had that problem with cracked gear. The Climaxes have the same issue. Seems Bachmann doesn't learn their lesson.NWSL has metal replacement gears, but it take some skill to get them to mount. You can buy entire trucks from Bachmann to fix the shay. Regretably it's not cheap and they still suffer the same issue.
The rear trucks should be easy enough to replace on the roundhouse.
But I understand your frustration. I had days like that too.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Thanks Cradell. I want to make this a learning experience. The 3-truck Shay I have was sold to me second hand. In my hands it has very low running time, as I was always going to build a layout for it and it never happened. Now my intention was to make the Shay the hardest worker on my layout.
Now that I think about it, the drive shaft on the rear truck came loose before.
So the quest as I see it is,
1) Do I get the NWSL kit and regear it myself.
or since this engine is critical to my layout
2) hire some one that is going to give me a first class job.
The answer to that question, I feel, lies in how hard is it to replace all that wobbley, windey, spidey-looking steam-punky stuff.
DigitalGriffinThe rear trucks should be easy enough to replace on the roundhouse.
I know. This bothers me worse that the Shay. This was brand new-first time out of the box. First of all, the wire wasn't even dangling, it was inside the tender.
But I figured, hey, how hard can it be? I just touch the wire to the solder on the truck and we're good to go.
I'm telling you all this because I want to figure out what I should have done differently. I was using a 25W Weller wand. I had the truck clamped in one of those octopus alligator clip thingies.
I used tweezers to bring the wire to the post, and I swear I touched nothing but the post. Now it did take a little longer than I expected for the solder to melt.
But it seemed like the structural integrety of the truck just vanished. There were signs of heat damage and warping 3/4 inch from the iron.
While I don't understand exactly what happened, reading the first sentence was enough of a warning. Heeding the advice of others is often painful until it happens to bite us. Ugh!
As you brought up lessons... Maybe it's time to invest in a soldering station with adjustable temp. I bought an X-TRONIC 4000 with digital readout on the 'bay. I can't say enough about the difference it makes.
It made me realize that sometimes it's not me, it's the tool. It comes with a variety of tips, heats up to temp very quickly, and has made it possible for even me to do decent soldering joints. The tips last a long time, since they're not at maximum temp all the time. I'm still on my first tip and it's as clean as new.
Sometimes you want a fast HOT solder joint, other times keep ing the temps lower can save you from frying components like diodes and LEDs with no leads. I can finally do clean soldering now.
I just saw a 4010 on there, I don't know the diff, maybe a newer model(?), but it looks like mine. For less than 1/2 the price of an average locomotive model these days? It's the first soldering iron I've ever had that doesn't make ME get hotter than than IT is when I'm using it! Dan
DigitalGriffinNWSL has metal replacement gears, but it take some skill to get them to mount. You can buy entire trucks from Bachmann to fix the shay. Regretably it's not cheap and they still suffer the same issue.
With a little research I found a video describing the process to installing the gears. The guy pretty much had to build a gear press to get them on. In fact, he did build one.
One of the guys making a comment said that Bachmann had indeed learned thier lesson (my words) and made a set of driveline assemblies that attach to the side of the trucks reasonably easily. They guy who used it speculated that the plastic gears must have been improved because his has been working since. And they are reasonably priced. ($23.10 for all three trucks)
But Shays can be shelf queens on a "normal" layout. So I'm, hoping to find more people who have used these driveline assemblies.
Southgate Maybe it's time to invest in a soldering station with adjustable temp. I bought an X-TRONIC 4000 with digital readout on the 'bay. I can't say enough about the difference it makes.
I'll take a look.
I have two other MDC 2-6-0s, and I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure the other two have harder plastic in the trucks. Part of my learning process will be to order the replacement part from the older model, even if I have to twists Walther's service guy's underware into a knot.
I found the 4010. I also found this. Seems to be an older model for half the price. Has good reviews.
https://www.ebay.com/p/X-Tronic-Model-3020-xts-Digital-Display-Soldering-Iron-Station-10-Minute-Sleep/2164402816?iid=122203739992&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48498%26meid%3Dabb26d018e18473bb4ba965d081badc0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D253423667971%26itm%3D122203739992&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851#ProductDetails
The job of installing the metal gears on the Bachmann Shay, getting them aligned right then fixed solid to the shaft is a real PITA. There is a gentleman online that goes by "The Shay Fixer", has a website and offers this repair service for that Shay. That would be my recomendation to get it going again. Only other option for a better pulling and more durable Shay would be to save up for a PFM/United Brass Shay. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
I agree with Mike....pay for the most experienced surgeon you can buy and place your gems in those capable hands. If you're willing to do it yourself, you will still be out some dough to either craft or to purchase a (re)usable gear puller mechanism.
You might be able to right it inside of three or four weeks from now once you have everything you need laid out before you on your bench, but the surgeon might be quicker....or a lot slower. Looks like you have more fact-finding ahead of you.
selectorI agree with Mike....pay for the most experienced surgeon you can buy and place your gems in those capable hands. If you're willing to do it yourself, you will still be out some dough to either craft or to purchase a (re)usable gear puller mechanism.
I took this to the Bachmann site. I couldn't remember my log in info so I had re-up. You might have trouble finding my post. It's under Space Mouse.
Seriously, I've been doing a little research and I watched a very detailed video on placing the NWSL gears. Puliing them is not the issue. Placing them just right on the drive shaft is.
If I had my druthers, I'd NOT want to do that.
But in the process of installing the gears, the guy had to remove the drive mechanism--the part that Bachman is now selling as a fix. I first learned about it from a comment post on the video. A guy said he did it and has not had problems since. I posted about it on Bachmann and was refered to the parts listing. Drive mechanisms for all three trucks are $23.40.
And nothing about the removal, installation process of the Bachmann assemblies scares me.
One guy says he's done multiple installations of both the NWSL gears and Bachmann assemblies and the Bachmann route is far easier. He's yet to respond about how well they work. But the feeling I'm getting is that Bachmann has found a way to resolve the issue, at a price that is low enough to stomach.
SpaceMouse DigitalGriffin NWSL has metal replacement gears, but it take some skill to get them to mount. You can buy entire trucks from Bachmann to fix the shay. Regretably it's not cheap and they still suffer the same issue. With a little research I found a video describing the process to installing the gears. The guy pretty much had to build a gear press to get them on. In fact, he did build one. One of the guys making a comment said that Bachmann had indeed learned thier lesson (my words) and made a set of driveline assemblies that attach to the side of the trucks reasonably easily. They guy who used it speculated that the plastic gears must have been improved because his has been working since. And they are reasonably priced. ($23.10 for all three trucks) But Shays can be shelf queens on a "normal" layout. So I'm, hoping to find more people who have used these driveline assemblies.
DigitalGriffin NWSL has metal replacement gears, but it take some skill to get them to mount. You can buy entire trucks from Bachmann to fix the shay. Regretably it's not cheap and they still suffer the same issue.
Making the jig is easy. Take two pinewood block and drill a hole in each one the size of the axle. Put the ends of the axle into the guide hole and then place the assembly in a vice and slowly close it. The wood blocks will press on the gear while helping keep the axle straight as the vice slowly closes. Just make sure your axel is perp. to the vice jaws and you can pull the axel out the axle afterwards. (either greese the hole or make it a little bigger than than the axle.)Everything I read says Bachmann never did fix the issue. Their delrin gear drives are notorious for failure. And I had more than a small handful of failures myself.
The particular problem with the shay is the gears have a large opening relative to the gear surrounding it. When there is expansion or contraction, there's not enough delrin there to keep the expansion forces acting it from cracking it. Delrin (polyoxymethylene/acetel) is great for machining and low friction/noise, but it's horrible strength wise (well that's partially true...it's a lot like glass. Glass has great strength, but it's inflexible and cracks quickly under pressure). Like glass, it's stiffness means it cracks, chips, and splits too easy.
DigitalGriffinMaking the jig is easy. Take two pinewood block and drill a hole in each one the size of the axle. Put the ends of the axle into the guide hole and then place the assembly in a vice and slowly close it.
This one of those obvious solutions I probably never would have thought of. Burned into my memory was the video and the brass tubes soldered onto his vice and perfect receptical for the little gear.
Still, if the Bachmann assembly gets good reviews, That will be the way to go. Much simpler.
SpaceMouseI posted about it on Bachmann and was refered to the parts listing. Drive mechanisms for all three trucks are $23.40. And nothing about the removal, installation process of the Bachmann assemblies scares me. One guy says he's done multiple installations of both the NWSL gears and Bachmann assemblies and the Bachmann route is far easier. He's yet to respond about how well they work. But the feeling I'm getting is that Bachmann has found a way to resolve the issue, at a price that is low enough to stomach.
I finally heard back from the guy. He is happy with all the engines on which he has installed the Bachmann drive assembly kits. So, I'll be ordering the kit shortly.