This is my first post to this site and my first introduction to model railroading. I have posted a short bio to my profile page and you can read that if you like. I have already subscribed to a couple of model railroading magazines and have worn Youtube out viewing model train layouts. I have a question at this early juncture: I know the most popular scale is HO with N being a distant second. I however feel led to invest time, energy, and capital in an S scale layout. I wonder why S scale is not a preferred scale. It seems to fit exactly into what I hope to do. I would appreciate any help you might give me on this head. Thank you in advance. Dr. David Profitt
Hi David,
Welcome!
Fans of S scale have been asking your question since the '30s. It's big enough to have some heft, but small enough to fit in many homes in a reasonably sized layout.
The perceived problem is availability of equipment. If you want to be able to go out and buy lots of stuff, S scale is limited. HO has by far the largest selection of products, so it's the easiest scale to get into. Whatever you may like, someone, at some point, may have made it.
N scale has about half the audience size of HO, maybe a third, and a proportionally smaller selection of products.
If you can find what you need/like in S scale, and you enjoy making things yourself, that might be just what you're looking for.
Eric
Thanks so much for the reassurance that there is not something inherently "wrong" with S scale. I will move forward then with the plan I have in mind which is to re-create the 1940's East Kentucky coal camp at Hardburley, Ky. My grandfather worked in the mines there and dad had part of his childhood there as well. Dad is gone now since 1998 and I think this would be a good way for me to connect with my historical roots and be a tribute to dad, a WWII POW as well. Many thanks Eric. I look forward to many posts...and many questions in the future. David Profitt
As Eric mentioned, in the 1930s there were 2 choices: Lionel O scale or American Flyer S scale. Lionel was the big guy. Then HO came onto the picture and pushed both aside, followed by N which gave them a further push.
Look at the inside cover of Model Railroad Craftsman, there usualy is an ad for S scale products there. It is a start.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Welcome, David.
What is it about S scale that you feel places it ahead of the two most popular scales to date?
When I was 8 years old (1958) I was given a model train set for Christmas - like most boys of that era I suppose. I believe it was a Lionel but I'm not sure. If I can figure out the process, I'll post a picture of the set later today. Dad built a layout for me in the basement (I have a pic of dad and me and the train set).That very personal sense of nostalgia draws me to the larger scales. Another reason is that, I've viewed the smaller scales in a store and they just don't seem to reflect the power and magnitude of a "real" train. I feel more comfortable with something that has weight and heft and I just believe I'll be better satisfied with the S scale in that it seems to be a happy trade off between the O and HO scales. David P
Sounds like we've got a great deal in common my brother. I wish you the very best and hope to have many conversations with you in the days to come. David P
Since you are interested in modeling mining operations, yet another scale option is narrow gauge O Scale. This scale has become much more popular than S scale and has more products available at better prices. Because the scale models smaller prototypes, the overall size of the trains are similar to those of standard gauge S scale models. The more "consumer" focused version of the scale models 2 1/2" foot gauged rails and is known as either On30 or On2 1/2. This gauge was developed as it allowed O scale trains to run on HO gauge track. Many prefer to model 3 foot gauge as that gauge was more common in the US. It is known as On3. Both On3 and On30 trains are similar in size. The only major difference in the distance between the rails. Track products are readily available for either gauge. Structures and scenery are all O scale. The biggest advantage of narrow gauge O scale is that most narrow gauge prototypes were some type of mountain/logging/mining railroad using small geared locos and rolling stock that had to negotiate poor track with sharp curves. This means that the sharp curves and steep grades of a model railroad are more appropriate for narrow gauge models. Best of all, O scale will be more forgiving for someone with arthritis and/or impaired vision.
Hornblower
Thank you for sharing what is evidently a wealth of knowledge about these trains. I most certainly appreciate the "education." You have mentioned 3 scales; the S I had originally selected, and two types of O scales, On3 and On30. You have said a bit about each one. What I would like to ask you now is, which would you select if you were just starting and wanted something heavier than an HO? David P
Appreciate the welcome...wish you hadn't sent us so many "Canadian Clippers" this winter. It's COLD down here! David P
Pic of one of the engines...60 years old. Bought in 1958. don't know scale, gauge, or brand...any help? David P (I'll follow with more pics)
Didn't work...I had the pics saved to my computer pictures and copied and pasted. David P
Hi David:
Welcome to the hobby and to the forums!!
First, you can't transfer pictures directly into the forums from your computer. You have to use a 3rd party photo hosting site like Flickr or imgur. I use imgur. At the top of the General Discussion page there is a thread on how to post pictures. There is also a concise explanation for using imgur here. Scroll down towards the bottom of the first page and read BigDaddy's post:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/267757.aspx
As far as S scale, if you want to collect hundreds of different locomotives and cars you won't be able do that. As has been stated, the selection is more limited than in HO or O, but if you want to model a mining operation you won't need 60 different types of locomotives.
Your point about HO being too small is an understandable concern, but I have no trouble working in HO and I'm doing some pretty detailed stuff.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks, Dave. I've never used Flickr ir imgut but it can't be too difficult. I'll try to post the pics later today. I believe it is a third rail system since there is a brass/copper contact in the center of the underside of the locomotives but I'd like some "professional" opinions on exactly what it is and whether or not they can be restored. I've restored some really bad looking tractors so I know there's hope for the loco's. I appreciate you getting back to me. David P
https://imgur.com/a/mKuBV
aprofitt0002which would you select if you were just starting and wanted something heavier than an HO?
Either On30 or On3 should be easy to get started in. The majority of the commercially available "ready-to-run" rolling stock products come set up for On30. If you'd prefer to model the 3' gauge more commonly found on U.S. prototypes, you'll have to change out the wheelsets (and possibly trucks) on the On30 products to make them fit the On3 track gauge (unless you find equipment already set up for On3). Commercially available flex track and turnouts are available in both gauges although there are fewer manufacturers of On3 track.
In short, On30 should be less expensive to get started.
I tell you what I'm going to do. We're going to travel to Lexington Friday to babysit our grandson and I'm going to take that opportunity to go to a model train store there in town so I can see each scale first hand and talk to the proprieter there about the differences in availability, price/cost, size of layout required, and available technologies. Lexington is the closest large town to us...about 100 miles away. I can't find an outlet in this part of the state that carries anything other than a couple of basic, Christmas tree train sets. David P
David
You might also go to the Walthers website and explore what is available in each scale as well as the corresponding prices. Regardless of what scale you finally choose, there is no doubt that you will enjoy this hobby! Good luck and feel free to pose any other questions you might have. This forum is loaded with information and most members will patiently walk you through whatever problems you might run into.
I don't know whether you are fortunate enough to live in an area where an upcoming train show will visit, but these are great events to see the advantages of each scale first hand. Plus, the people running the trains are very knowledgable about their respective scales and most will talk your ears off.
I was just at the Great Train Show in Costa Mesa, CA this past Sunday and one display had side-by-side examples of each scale from G down to N. There were also several display layouts in Scales from G down to Z. The displays can also give you ideas about just what you'd like to model.
Thanks for the advice on the Walthers site. I'll definitely check it out before visiting the Berkshire Train Store in Lexington this Friday to give me some idea of cost. I think the Bershire visit will help me with an idea of scale. I have two possibilites of where I can build my layout and in this case at least, size does matter. There is a club in Lexington (100 miles from our home here in Eastern Kentucky)...the Bluegrass Railroad Club but I'm a little wary since they require a credit card number in their application for login...doesn't seem right to me. I should know more after my visit to Berkshire and Hobby Lobby in Lex this Friday. By the way, could you see the pics I uploaded a few days back? I had hoped somebody might recognize the brand, etc of that 60 year old train set I got for Christmas when I was 8 years old. Thanks for the help. David P.
Good luck in your travels and product/info searches! I'm glad we've been able to help you learn more about what to look for and ask. I was curious about my own advice and logged on to the Walthers site to see what is available. While there is indeed a lot more available today in S scale, I still don't think it compares to the On30 selection. Interestingly, everything available in S scale is grouped together (trains, track, scenery, structures, etc.). However, looking up On30 shows you only trains and track. This is due to the fact that scenery, structures, details, etc., are all O scale regardless of track gauge. Thus, you also need to include all of the available O scale scenery, structure and detail products available, too. Trainworld currently offers deeply discounted prices on a lot of Bachmann On30 products, too.
I don't think I'd join a club 100 miles away as I don't think I'd be able to participate very often. Put your money toward your layout and ask any questions you might have here. While the forum may not be able to give you hands on assistance, we can answer a lot of your questions and may be able to refer you to videos that will provide further clarification. We were all newbies at one time so we've all made our share of mistakes. Please learn from our experiences.
I didn't see your previous pictures but I'm not much of a collector and likely couldn't identify what you have. No doubt, others can.
Thanks so much, my friend. I appreciate the help and look forward to many years of happy "railroading." Dr. David Profitt
https://www.nasg.org/
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Great videos...thanks...went down to Lexington yesterday and visited Berkshire Trains on Rosemont Gardens Ave. The fellow there, David Sephanski, was very helpful...he's an "O" scale man and was able to tell me what the train I got when I was 8 years old is...a Marx. I'm going to have him restore the locomotives and rolling stock...lots cheaper than paying $1300 for a new loco. He has all prices though from $50 to $2000. Great little place. http//www.Berkshiretrains.com dp
Well, I must say I've had several changes of heart since my last post. After struggling with the space and cost requirements of O scale, and after visiting other retail establishments, watching innumerable Youtube videos, checking out various clubs and communitys, and after purchasing some basic equipment, I have revised my layout, increasing it in both size and scope and have moved away from my original thought to something my wife and I can both be involved in and that is a British countryside layout and design. My ancestors are from Scotland and hers from Ireland and we are big fans of British TV (yes...including Downton Abbey...). There is a British Railway Form/Club, the British Railroad Modellers of North America that fits exactly into our plans so I am now in the process of joining that group which is made of of people from Canada, the US, and around the globe who are united in the one area of British Model Railroading. I have also, after holding O, S, and HO and reading all the available stuff I can reasonably read, have decided to go with HO scale for a variety of reasons. I am getting ready to build my benchwork now and am excited to have finally decided on something that can truly be a "family" hobby (at least me and my wife...the kids are all grown and gone off). David Profitt
Glad to hear you've settled on a project that you can also share with your wife (I wish I could interest my wife in my trains!). Not to confuse you further, but most British prototype models are actually OO scale (1:76 scale ratio or 4.0 mm to the foot vs. HO scale at 1:87.1 or 3.5 mm to the foot). Fortunately, OO scale still uses HO scale track (16.5 mm gauge) and Peco (a very high quality British manufacturer) offers European style track in both their Code 100 and 75 lines. Even though the OO scale trains are a little oversize compared to HO scale models, it can be difficult to notice as the British prototypes tend to be smaller than U.S. prototype trains. Thus, many modelers freely mix OO scale trains with HO scale structures, vehicles, figures and other scenery items. Since HO scale is the most popular scale today, you'll have lots of products choices available and at competitive prices. For a little inspiration, you might look up the original Thomas the Tank Engine videos (narated by Ringo Starr) as they were all shot on a beautiful OO scale layout designed to resemble the Isle of Man (though called the Island of Sodor in the videos). Don't bother with the current videos as they are all computer generated and visually suck when compared to the originals. Good luck and keep us posted with your progress!
Thanks for your confirmation on the OO scale. I've been poking around a scarcely populated site called BRMNA British Railway Modellers of North America and looking at some Youtube videos of British layouts and saw early on they were using a scale I had not heard of... the OO. My wife (Connelley) is from Ireland and my ancestors are from Scotland and we are both fans of British TV (yes...Downton Abbey and Idiot Abroad among others) so it just seemed to fall into place... a rail line extending from the fictitious town of Midsomer in York, through an Irish section followed by a section set in Scotland. My bench has 3 sides in a sort of U shape that invites such a layout so I'm onto this like white on rice. I've also realized a person can spend a lot of money really fast in this hobby. I'm used to buying an old rusty tractor and then spending 3 years or so rebuilding it...sort of spaces out the cash outlay. Stay in touch... David P.
Just a quick question for a rookie... I'm having trouble designing my layout. I'm going to create a dcc system and I want to have more than a single line running north and south. I want to add turn outs and sidings and other points of interest. Any suggestions on where I need to begin and remember, you're talking to somebody who is as ignorant as a drum when it comes to railroads of any size. Also - did I get it straight that HO trains and OO trains are pretty well interchangable? David P.
That's a broad question.
The Hornby site lists DCC ready (meaning it is a DC compatible but not actually DCC unless you install a decoder) DCC Fitted and DCC Fitted with sound. What is confusing to me is some of the DCC Fitted also have sound. Beware of those differences when you buy.
There are two other parts to you question, design of a layout and wiring for DCC. As a self confessed newbie, neither we, nor you, know what you don't know.
John Armstrong's book Track Planning for Realistic Operation is a must read for the first half of that question.
The difference between DC and DCC is that DC controls the track, DCC controls the engines. DCC likes a good signal with no voltage drop off. If you used a short pair of bell wires for you former layout, that isn't going to work for DCC. Not that it's hard, just picky.
Kalmbach has a couple starter books on DCC and you would do well to read one or two of those, before you start buying wire. Once you have some back ground, you will know what question to ask to fill in the gaps of your knowledge.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley