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P2K SW1200 Modeling Help

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  • Member since
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  • From: Miles City, Montana
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P2K SW1200 Modeling Help
Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, November 13, 2017 8:45 PM

OK Friends, I need your assistance again. I bought myself a P2K SW1200. I have found a few things that I need help with. First: the cab end handrail for my prototype is a bit different than stock (e.g. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=759460) Not the greatest pic but you get the idea. I have no idea how to replicate it. (The one on the long hood end is just fine.)
Second, the spark arrestors don't seem to be anything I have ever seen commercially made. (e.g. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755855 #151)
Third: How to I go about replacing the hood rails? Both of them are all bent out of shape. If I had to guess, I would say some phosphor wire and some eye bolts, but I'm not sure.
As usual, any suggestions would be welcomed.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, November 13, 2017 9:23 PM

I used the Tichy wire.  This loco is an Athearn SD40-2T, shortened, with a wide cab.  I had to get creative when I did the railings.  I used the wire, and some Athearn stanchions to do what I needed.

You could use the same for replacing the hood railings.  Not sure, are the excisting P2K railings the delron plastic stuff?  If they are, not sure if they can be straightened.

I bet docwayne will chime in with some excellent tips.

Mike.

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Posted by dstarr on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:51 AM

Hmm.  For the cab end railing, I would make one out of 0.020 inch brass wire.  Solder the joints.  Make a jig to get the thing square and just the right size.  Double check the size of the railing against the end platform using dividers before soldering.  After soldering, clean the flux off.  The most agressive solvent you can find will dissolve flux, now that we can no longer get Freon.  Try lacquer thinner, or MEK, or even just liquid styrene welder cement, which is mostly MEK. Paint won't stay stuck over flux.  A short acid etch in super market vinegar will make the paint stick better. 

  For the hood rails, any kind of wire, brass, steel music wire, or phosphor bronze will work.  Handling doesn't beat up hood rails as badly as it does the railing on Geeps. 

  I have never seen ads for spark arrestors like you show in that photo.  I might try to make some out of plastic rod (or sprue) of the right size.  Cut to length, ends filed off flat,  painted flat black, and glued to the stacks, might work. 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:15 PM

I dunno, Mike, you've pretty-well covered the way I'd do walkway handrails.  Smile, Wink & Grin  However, looking at the first link, I think that he's referring to the handrails on the sides of the hood.  Some brass or phosphor bronze wire will work fine with wire eyebolts like those offered by Detail Associates.   They also offer the larger combination handrail supports/lifting lugs (for removing the long hood), seen in the photo near both ends of the handrail.   They're plastic parts, and, if I recall correctly, have mounting pins, so the existing holes on the model will be useful for mounting the new ones.

My Walthers catalogue is rather outdated, but shows the Detail Associates wire eye bolts as part #229-2206, while the plastic side-mount ones are #229-1105.  They also offer a couple of spark arrestor styles similar to those seen in the prototype photo, part #229-103 andpart #229-4001.  Details West also has a spark arrestor that may be suitable, part #235-125.  You can do an on-line search for the spark arrestor part numbers to see if any look appropriate.

As for the end handrail, I'd suggest .015" phosphor bronze wire (Tichy part # 293-1102) and a 25 watt soldering iron.  A small sheet of 1/4" balsa and some dressmaker's pins (straight pins) will also be of use.  You can use a scale rule to determine the necessary measurements, then draw the handrail, to-scale, on paper using a pencil and straightedge.  Next, draw a full length of wire through some fine sandpaper a couple of times - wet/dry type, used dry, works well - #500 grit or finer (higher grit number).  This is to remove oxidation from the wire, which will greatly aid in your soldering efforts.  Bend the wire (it can be re-bent a couple of times if necessary, but will eventually fatigue and break - set aside the pieces, as they may be useful for the add-on bits needed to replicate the prototype. 
It's difficult to tell from the photo, but it looks as if the portion with the yellow uprights is a distinct piece from the higher section in black - in other words, two verticals, plugged into holes in the step wells similar to the manner on your model, and continuing across as a single piece...basically an upside down "U", with the mounting extensions bent inward on the bottom of the ends.  Bend the pre-cleaned wire so that it exactly matches your drawing when laid atop it.
Bend the other railing to also match your sketch, with mounting pins bent at 90 degrees so that they can plug into holes drilled in the face of the pilot.  You'll also need a third piece, that horizontal one near the pilot deck, painted yellow.  It appears to be a very shallow "U"-shape, too, but I'd suggest making it just a straight piece, as otherwise, the attachment at the centre upright will be difficult.

When you have all of the pieces bent, pin the drawing to the balsa, then lay the high handrail onto the drawing, using pins as necessary to keep it aligned with the drawing.  The portion of this wire that you've bent to act as mounting pins on the model should be facing up.  Next, pin the other main handrail, the one in the photo with the yellow uprights, atop the one already in place, again aligning it precisely with the drawing.  It must lie level atop the first piece, so you'll need to slip a short length of the same wire under the lower ends of the "U" to support the portion forming the uprights. 
With the soldering iron hot, use the tip of a #11 blade to apply a small dab of paste-type resin flux to one of the places where one handrail overlaps the other. Hold the tip of the solder (I like 60/40 resin core, about .030" in diameter, for this type of work, and it's good for electrical work, too) so that it's touching the joint, then touch the tip of the soldering iron to the wire.  As soon as the solder melts, withdraw the solder and the iron.  Don't worry if you get too much solder on the joint - it can be cleaned up later using needle files.  Place a small wad of wet tissue over the just-formed joint, then repeat the whole process for the other joints.
When all joints between the two pieces have been completed, remove the pins and flip the assembly over so that the mounting pins for the high portion of the handrail are just barely overhanging the edge of the balsa - you may need to reposition the drawing to accommodate this.  Pin the assembly in place, then slip a piece of wire under the lower ends of the uprights of the higher handrail, to keep them in the same plane as the rest of that railing.  Place small wads of wet tissue over all of the previously-made joints, then pin the pre-bent horizontal lower handrail in position, then solder that railing in place - don't forget the wet tissue for each newly-made joint.

Use suitable files to clean-up any joints needing it, then clean the assembly with lacquer thinner or alcohol.  You can pre-paint it or install it first and then paint.

The wet tissue tip works well-enough that I was able to assemble the ladder on the front of this plastic tender, using a soldering iron, with the uprights already in place on the model...

Wayne

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  • From: Miles City, Montana
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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:05 PM

doctorwayne

Looking at the first link, I think that he's referring to the handrails on the sides of the hood.  Some brass or phosphor bronze wire will work fine with wire eyebolts like those offered by Detail Associates.   ... as part #229-2206

I had the same idea to use the 2206s and some of the suggested .020" wire that I have onhand to replace the long hood rail.

I was actually referring to the end rail for the first link. (The hood rail issue only came up after I looked at the actual engine.)

Let's try a couple of other pictures that are a little clearer:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/np/np0144gea.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/np/np0142o31.jpg

doctorwayne

They also offer a couple of spark arrestor styles similar to those seen in the prototype photo, part #229-103

The only number I find close to the 229-103 is 229-2103 which is what I was thinking about anyway. That was suggested from another posting I have on this problem.

As for the endrails, unfortunately, I am not very good when it comes to using a soldering iron. (I don't even solder my track connections. I use terminal joiners when it comes to powering my track.)

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:36 PM

FRRYKid
As for the endrails, unfortunately, I am not very good when it comes to using a soldering iron. (I don't even solder my track connections. I use terminal joiners when it comes to powering my track.)

I'm going to give the soldering past a try at my upcoming attempts at railings, etc.

https://www.jbtoolsales.com/solder-it-sp-7-silver-bearing-solder-paste-7-1-gram-syringe/

Frank, Zstripe, turned me on to it.  I bought some, and I can't wait to try it.

Mike.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:07 PM

Your first link, in the post above, explains the set-up of the end railing much better, and simplifies fabrication of one for your model.

FRRYKid
...As for the endrails, unfortunately, I am not very good when it comes to using a soldering iron....

I sorta expected that reply, but it wouldn't be too expensive to give it a try.  All of us, at some time or other, have faced a situation where we need to do something we've not done before or have done, but got poor results.

The steps as I outlined them regarding the actual soldering make it a fairly simple task, but you could simplify it even further by applying the flux to the joint and the solder to the iron - not the way it's supposed to be done, but for small joints like this, perfectly do-able.  I'd also suggest that when you cut the wire, do so with a knife, rather than side-cutters or a cut-off disc.
I use old X-Acto #11 blades that have worked their way down through the usefulness hierarchy, first for cutting decals, then trimming parts from sprues, cutting styrene, enlarging undersize holes, applying ca, then mixing and applying epoxy.  In the early part of that journey, they've usually been sharpened numerous times.
To cut small wire, up to .020" in diameter, work on a hard surface (I use a sheet of glass) and use the heel of the blade to make the cut, pressing down firmly in a chopping motion.  Make sure to restrain both the main piece of wire and the piece which you're cutting from it.  This gives a nice, clean cut with little to no deformation and no clean-up required.  It also allows you to make extremely precise cuts, important if you want good-looking results.  Butting these clean ends against the formed and pre-cleaned wire of the handrails will help reduce the soldering work to a quick touch of the iron at the joints.
Butt joints are generally not all that strong, but if you keep that in mind when you're handling that loco, it should stand-up just fine.

If you really don't want to try that, there's another method HERE that doesn't involve soldering.  (The link drops you mid-way into the thread, but the earlier portion covers only construction of the buildings and has nothing to do with railings.)

Wayne

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  • From: Miles City, Montana
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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:24 PM

doctorwayne

If you really don't want to try that, there's another method HERE that doesn't involve soldering.  (The link drops you mid-way into the thread, but the earlier portion covers only construction of the buildings and has nothing to do with railings.)

Wayne

 

That's an interesting thought.

The other thought I just had is that I have some wire glue that I purchased for another layout project. I don't know how well it would paint but it is something I have onhand.

"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by dstarr on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:37 PM

If you are not up to soldering, use CA.  It will stick to clean wire, and is strong enough to keep the railing together.  Solder is stronger, but CA is good enough. 

  Soldering is not hard, I learned how to solder building Heathkits when I was 12 years old.  Use rosin flux and 60-40 tin-lead solder.  Dab a small amount of flux onto the joint. Keep the tip of the iron tinned.  Use the iron to heat the work hot enough to melt the solder.  Touch the solder to the work and capillary action will draw just the right amount of solder into the joint.  If the work isn't hot enough, the solder won't stick.  Dropping molten solder onto cold work doesn't work. Don't move or handle the joint until it is cool and the solder has turned back into solid shiny metal. 

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