or "you get what you pay for." Hopefully some of you can help me with this. I'll admit upfront that I haven't spent a lot of time chasing the demons I'm asking for help fixing here... A few weeks ago, I "acquired" for almost nothing a Bachmann "McKinley Explorer" Loco and cars. I have only run them a little bit on the layout because 1). they are supposed to be a surprise for the boy, and 2). They've given me fits since I got them. I got these because he loves the show Railroad Alaska. When he tells folks about the Alaska railroad, he says, "They always have problems". Well, these are living up to that assessment. haha.
The issue with the loco is that while the motor runs fine, it keeps derailing at the turnouts. I'm sorry that I don't have more info on why. Since I'm "hiding" this train from the boy, my time 1 on 1 with the layout is limited (I wake up much earlier than him for work and we usually go to bed about the same time). None of our other locos or rolling stock seem to have issues. I'm guessing I have an issue with the front truck of the loco and the frogs. Running code 100 atlas track and their snap switches. Any troubleshooting advice appreciated.
Also, these are the 85' Bachmann passenger cars with the coupler's that rotate with the trucks (why someone thought that was a good idea I'll never know.) I had intended to replace the bachmann ez-mate couplers with kadee’s anyway, but the rotating couplers (linked to the trucks) make it slightly more involved. Kadee has a kit for these so that’s not really that big of a deal.
The real issue with the cars is the trucks. In short and IMHO, they’re junk and need to be replaced. This is my real question in this thread. If you folks had to replace the trucks on these, what would you use? I’m not looking for the best trucks nor the cheapest. I’m looking for something they will run reliably with a minimum of maintenance that also won’t break the bank. I figure the cars themselves are worth about $10-$15 each as is so I hate spending more in parts on them than they are worth.
Here's a photo of the offending set.
My first thought is to cut you losses short and get something else. That may be the least acceptable solution for your son.
You don't tell us what radius track you have. One thought is the passenger cars maybe causing the loco to derail. Truck mounted couplers are especially problematic in backwards travel. Having a KD coupler still may not solve the problem of a very unrealistic look on tight radius track
The other thought is there may be a wheel gauge problem with the loco. The only way to tell that is to get yourself a NMRA wheel gauge.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyYou don't tell us what radius track you have. One thought is the passenger cars maybe causing the loco to derail. Truck mounted couplers are especially problematic in backwards travel. Having a KD coupler still may not solve the problem of a very unrealistic look on tight radius track
Thanks so much for the reply. L
Hello all,
Regarding the loco,
Lonnie Utah...it keeps derailing at the turnouts.
...unfortunately, is a pretty generic statement.
I appreciate that you can't just run the set because of the surprise.
Given that...
Does it derail at single turnouts, double turnouts, one particular turnout or at all them?
Does it derail when it diverges or when going straight?
Which direction of travel does it derail?
Is there a possibility that the derailment happens before the turnout(s) and is only noticed when it passes over the frog?
If you have an NMRA gage check the flanges of the wheels (RP-23). I would say this is a long shot because this set is relatively modern.
For the cars, you might try to replace the wheels as opposed to the entire trucks. You might also consider using a truck tuning tool.
The "Swing Arm" draft gear was designed so that longer cars could run on 18-inch radii sectional track without having to use long shank couplers for a more prototypical appearance.
If you are not concerned with the appearance you might try long shank couplers and body mounting the couplers.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Check the obvious stuff. Wheel gauge. Crud stuck to wheel treads, nicks and gouges in the flanges that can catch on rails. Car weight, add lead to bring them up to NMRA recommendations (1/2 oz plus 1 oz per inch of length). Check truck free swing. Dremel away any underbody details that catch and hang the trucks. Coupler height. A low flying coupler's gladhand can snag going thru turnouts and crossings. Check the track gauge, the wing rail gauge, depth of flange passage ways in the wing rails and the frogs.
I never changed any trucks on account of derailment. Bad wheel sets sometimes.
Good Luck.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Thanks JJ.
I ran the loco a little bit when I got home. It didn't misbehave as badly as before. And upon further inspection, it appears the loco is derailing because the the leading wheels/most outboard wheels are riding higher than the trailing/inboard wheels. (If it was a boat I'd say it was plaining.) I took the shell off the loco and it appears the trucks are held on by a screw. If I loosen the screw, it increases the travel in the trucks, tighten it at the reverse is true. I think this screw is the culprit. My guess is this screw is over tightned and when I find the proper torque for it, I find the solution to the problem
I also have no issues with KD long shank couplers, if they result in trouble free operation.
Thanks again for the replies everyone
Thanks Mel. The issue with the cars isn't derailment. The problem with them is the trucks won't securely hold the wheels (The Wheels seem narrower than the trucks) . I figured it was just easier to replace the whole truck. I guess I could try replacement wheels first.
FWIW, here's a link to the KD replacements...
https://kadee.com/conv/pdf/b39.pdf
Hi Lonnie,
Besides what has been mentioned, one thing comes to mind, that is,
you said you have 22" radius but what about the snap switches are they 22" as well ?
Usually with a 4 axle loco that shouldn't be a problem, but one never knows when you a hunting for cause. But this might certainly cause some difficulty with the 6 axle passenger cars. (also 85/86 ft. frieght cars.)
Happy Hunting.
Johnboy out.........
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Johnboy,
The turnouts are indeed 18" radius. Truth be told, I didn't run the cars through them and don't really have the intention of doing so. The turns on that part of the track are too tight for these. :)
Thanks again everyone! !
Cheers,
L
last mountain & eastern hoggerbut what about the snap switches are they 22" as well ?
Snap switches are 18-inch radius "compatible" while the other Atlas turnouts are actually numbered; #4, #6, #8.
jjdamnitSnap switches are 18-inch radius "compatible" while the other Atlas turnouts are actually numbered; #4, #6, #8.
They are 850's and 851's.
My guess is the wheel sets in the diesel are out of gauge and "picking" the points or the frog when going thru the turnout. If the set was second hand, its possible it was stored somewhere that was very hot and the truck side frames got distorted or like was posted, the previous owner swapped out the wheel sets to ones that do not fit well. Good luck with the set. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Success. I losened the screw 1/2 turn and was able to run the loco through all the turnouts at full speed.
And I also learned a valuable lesson for when I go to put a dcc chip in it. When I first put it back on the layout, it tripped the short circuit, circut breaker. Turns out the power lead down to the underneath power pickup is VERY close to the metal frame. When I put the shell back on, it moved the pickup in contact with the frame causing the short. I'm going to have to do yeoman's work to make sure there are no potential shorts in that area when the time comes.
I still have the issue if the cars to sort out, but I think that one shouldn't be too difficult.
Thanks again to everyone that commented.
For the passenger car trucks, with the wheelsets out of the truck you might try gently pressing inward on the frames to see if you can get the wheelsets to fit better (not loosey-goosey.)
As someone else noted, the wheelsets may have been subbed with something else for some reason that then didn't fit well. The axle lengths vary for wheelsets and subbing in something else that fits better could be another solution.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The wheels seem to be behaving much better as well. I just need to chip the loco and work on the coupler alignment(s). Thanks to everyone for all of the suggestions!
Went by the LHS yesterday and bought a "brain" for the loco. I got it installed last night. Safety tip, if you want the headlights to work, it works best to actually hook up the blue ground wire to the chip. Woke up early to get that done this AM and all is good. All that's left to do with the loco is programming (which in this case is just assigning it a cab number.)
I thought about replacing the wheels on the passenger coaches, and the guys at the shop were great. We tried several wheel sets from Kadee, athearn and intermountain. They were all tight in the trucks. Too tight. It seems the bachmann trucks are slightly more narrow that "standard". So rather than try to force something to fit, we all decided that the best course of action was to replace the entire truck. They didn't have anything that would work in stock, so I'll head back there later this week when their HO guru is back in.
As to the passenger trucks place the car on track all by itself (check to be sure both trucks are on the rails).Give the car a quick shove to see how far it will coast.In my experience it should roll at least the length of the car multiplied times 3'
If the cars are not free rolling get your self a truck tuner JaBee and Micro Mark both have them.If there is any plastic flash in the truck axle cones this will clean it out so the cars can roll easier.I use my truck tunner on all of my HO cars as a matter of getting them track ready.
I do not change out any of the KaDee clones unless they fail.When I do change them out I use the KaDee whisker couplers.
The 850 & 851 turnouts are "snap switches" which are 18-inch radii "compatible."