Alton Junction
Gerry Leone just had a MRVP video about using blister packs, the clear plastic that covers a cardboard package that contains, well just about anything you buy these days. He did not go into the molding process at all.
Is it hard to get the right thickness and an even thickness, for instance the window frame?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy Is it hard to get the right thickness and an even thickness, for instance the window frame?
I did that window frame face down. Worked like a charm.
Rich
I've made lots of silicone molds and cast resin parts over the years using my own masters that I made from wood or styrene. My nephew worked at a place that had a vacuum chamber that he could use. That eliminated any bubbles in the silicone.
By placing the part detail-side down it might be tough to get trapped bubbles out?
As a side note—You could potentially be stepping into copyright infringement territory by copying someone else's (Walthers) proprietary property.
I believe Chooch became aware of the shrink-wrap duplicating and as a result they now place a slip of paper on top of the part before packaging it.
I'm just mentioning this as a friendly "heads-up" as some manufacturers may not take kindly to their work being duplicated
Regards, Ed
Ed, you raise an interesting point, but I would ask two questions in reply.
1. These pieces are being replicated for my personal use so where is the issue?
2. These kits have been discontinued so Walthers has made it near impossible to find and purchase them, so what would be the objection to casting them for personal use?
In fact, wouldn't most mold making / object casting face similar problems since almost all castings are of someone else's product?
Fair use is still a thing. You could spend the rest of your life making rubber molds and resin clones of everything you own. It isn't a problem until you sell one.
Our entire hobby is the hijacking of someone else's intellectual property, to a degree. Fair use is what gets us through.
Also, you may recall that in the April 2009 issue of MR, an article described how to use DPM wall sections as masters to make a part. While DPM didn't make a part like the one depicted (a single window panel), parts of two DPM wall sections were used as the components of the master. If this part had gone into production in someone's garage, it would constitute infringement of DPMs intellectual property. But, casting a few parts for yourself, there's no issue at all in the slightest.
Thanks, NL, I do agree.
I'd like to hear more from Ed about his view on this issue.
“If there is no money there is no lawsuit.” said my business law professor. But as soon as you make a buck off of it they are entitled to 3 times (I think) what you made and your inventory has to be destroyed.However lawyers don’t work for only $3 so they won’t get involved unless there is sufficient money for them to have. It’s all about the money. If the company already has lawyers on the payroll they may send you a cease and desist order. If you are selling on eBay it is a violation of your user agreement and if someone complains then eBay will boot you off if you continue after being warned.Also state and federal laws do not apply to most foreign countries unless we have it written into trade agreements and even so they are hard to enforce unless the company has people in that country. Those cheap figures (people) from China on eBay are made from Preiser figures. I don’t know if they are legally licensed by Preiser nor do I know if Germany has trade agreements with China. If you negotiate ahead of time and license the product you can make and sell other people’s stuff. Think about Columbia House and BMG record clubs. They had licensing agreements to sell all of those CDs, records and tapes which they printed themselves.
richhotrainI'd like to hear more from Ed about his view on this issue.
Hi, Rich
I only bring it up since I recall the recent controversy over some guy DBA "Big Dawg" or some such moniker. He was "allegedly" making revisions to diesel shells, using parts from other manufacturers, then making latex molds and resin shells and—yes—selling them. In his case I am completely against his use of masters that Athearn, Rapido, Bowser and others have invested huge amounts of research, time and expense to tool and manufacture.
I know your goal is to make parts for personal use with no intention of profiting from it. My only reason for my post was to caution you that there might be a few eyebrows raised over using a Walthers part as your master then showing everyone else how to do it on a public forum.
The law can take some pretty crazy turns when it comes to copyright and I'd hate to see you caught up in something that had very innocent beginnings.
For instance:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/09/09/12-year-old-sued-for-music-downloading.html
Again, just mentioning this as a friendly "heads-up"
Cheers! Ed
Thanks, Ed, for your follow up.
OK, this thread has taken an unfortunate turn because my only purpose, initially, was to discuss the use of rubber molds and resin casting. I just happened to use Walthers Modulars because I have some on hand so I used them as an example.
At this point, I see no reason to continue this thread so I will ask Steven Otte to delete it.
But, let me close with this comment. I probably have purchased over 100 various kits from Walthers during the past several years. In fact, being a pack rat, I still have all of the boxes. In anticipation of an upcoming project, I have recently purchased even more kits from various retailers and on eBay. But they have become increasingly difficult to find, since the kits have been long discontinued by Walthers. I have no intention to sell any castings or to make any for fellow modelers. I simply needed to create some additional parts to finish the project.
Rich,
You did a beautiful job on this - both the actual molding and the "how to" description. As you said, this is all for your own use and your intent with the thread is to share your experience and view on the subject - which I for one appreciate.
The legalese has been noted and acknowledged. As it is certainly not a factor in your endeavor, hopefully it will be put to bed. Please continue with the thread to the actual use of the castings in whatever structure you are building!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
richhotrainAt this point, I see no reason to continue this thread so I will ask Steven Otte to delete it. But, let me close with this comment. I probably have purchased over 100 various kits from Walthers during the past several years. In fact, being a pack rat, I still have all of the boxes. In anticipation of an upcoming project, I have recently purchased even more kits from various retailers and on eBay. But they have become increasingly difficult to find, since the kits have been long discontinued by Walthers. I have no intention to sell any castings or to make any for fellow modelers. I simply needed to create some additional parts to finish the project.
Hi Rich:
I think you may be overreacting a bit to the copyrite issue. You are not doing it to make a profit. It is for your use only. That is the crucial point.
I strongly disagree with deleting the thread. Your tutorial was excellent.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I agree with the ''critter"...........You also did a fine job on Your presentation!
As a side note? Don't You have to coat some sort of release agent on the part before inserting into the wet resin? I did some moon's ago and had to coat them with a slippery talc like powder before inserting. Unless things have changed.
Take Care!
Frank
EDIT: Could also be My memory.......It's been a long time...LOL
The how-to knowledge Rich is sharing in this thread isn't a big secret. As someone above already noted, we've run articles in our magazine on how to make and duplicate modular wall sections in resin. So nobody's enabling a criminal enterprise by telling people how to do this. It's kind of like the argument the TV and movie industry made against videotapes when they hit the market. It's not the method or the technology that's wrong, it's what one chooses to do with it. Since what Rich is doing with it -- duplicating almost impossible to legitimately obtain parts for his personal use only -- is legit, so is this thread.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Now that that is all out of the way, there's something I got thinking:
How do you plan to insert the window casting as you don't have the small recessed area around the window opening? Perhaps it would make sense to make a variety of assembled wall panels with windows inserted and use those as masters?
Steven Otte The how-to knowledge Rich is sharing in this thread isn't a big secret. As someone above already noted, we've run articles in our magazine on how to make and duplicate modular wall sections in resin. So nobody's enabling a criminal enterprise by telling people how to do this. It's kind of like the argument the TV and movie industry made against videotapes when they hit the market. It's not the method or the technology that's wrong, it's what one chooses to do with it. Since what Rich is doing with it -- duplicating almost impossible to legitimately obtain parts for his personal use only -- is legit, so is this thread.
zstripe Don't You have to coat some sort of release agent on the part before inserting into the wet resin? I did some moon's ago and had to coat them with a slippery talc like powder before inserting. Unless things have changed.
Don't You have to coat some sort of release agent on the part before inserting into the wet resin? I did some moon's ago and had to coat them with a slippery talc like powder before inserting. Unless things have changed.
NittanyLion How do you plan to insert the window casting as you don't have the small recessed area around the window opening? Perhaps it would make sense to make a variety of assembled wall panels with windows inserted and use those as masters?
I haven't yet glued the windows to the wall sections, but they seem to fit just fine. One thing that I did not mention is that when you pour the resin mix into the mold, try as you might, it is hard to fill the mold precisely without overflow. So, what I have been doing is using a piece of styrene sheet to "scrape" off the excess before it starts to cure. That results in a very flat back on the cast wall section or window or pilaster for that matter.
richhotrain NittanyLion How do you plan to insert the window casting as you don't have the small recessed area around the window opening? Perhaps it would make sense to make a variety of assembled wall panels with windows inserted and use those as masters? OK, I tried a different approach, with window attached and the wall section face up. Didn't work out too well. As I suspected, there was too much flashing in what should have been the windows. So I will stick with my first approach, the window cast separately, face down. Rich
OK, I tried a different approach, with window attached and the wall section face up. Didn't work out too well. As I suspected, there was too much flashing in what should have been the windows. So I will stick with my first approach, the window cast separately, face down.
Steven OtteSince what Rich is doing with it -- duplicating almost impossible to legitimately obtain parts for his personal use only -- is legit
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
JaBear, I think you know where this is going, and I just may name it the JaBear Project since you provided the initial inspiration - - - for better or worse. LOL
Experimentation is the right word. That is what I am doing right now, trying to determine the best way to build the freight house. Do I attach individual sections to one another as I would do if I had the actual kits? Do I mold 2-story sections out of individual wall sections. What about the cornices? Pilasters? Of particular complexity is the corner pilaster. I have yet to come up with any solution to that particular problem.
In any event, I hope to start a thread soon on scratch building the freighthouse.
Trust me, it is a challenge, but I believe that I have come close to solving the problem of replicating the prototype look of the various door and window shapes.
Mel, are you suggesting Hydrocal instead of the resin mix?
richhotrain Ed, you raise an interesting point, but I would ask two questions in reply. 1. These pieces are being replicated for my personal use so where is the issue? 2. These kits have been discontinued so Walthers has made it near impossible to find and purchase them, so what would be the objection to casting them for personal use? In fact, wouldn't most mold making / object casting face similar problems since almost all castings are of someone else's product? Rich
To erase all doubts, contact Walthers directly (snail mail, receipt requested) and ask. If you have their blessing, you can sleep soundly. At worst, they might want a little money - but nowhere near the price of the original products.
OTOH, if the copyright thing slides into the hands of the legal profession, it could get really expensive in a hurry. Not wanting to deal with that is why I'm an unpublished author...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - when not writing SF)
richhotrain Mel, are you suggesting Hydrocal instead of the resin mix? Rich
richhotrainThe mixing ratio is 10:1 rubber: catalyst. You need to be precise, so I use a small food scale to measure the volume of each component in grams.
Not to nitpick, but what you did was to measure the weight of each component, not the volume. The old "which takes more space, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead" question. So unless the rubber weighs the same per unit of measure as the catalyst, the mixture may not turn out as expected.
Did the directions specify any suggested method of determining the mixture ratio?
maxman richhotrain The mixing ratio is 10:1 rubber: catalyst. You need to be precise, so I use a small food scale to measure the volume of each component in grams. Not to nitpick, but what you did was to measure the weight of each component, not the volume. The old "which takes more space, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead" question. So unless the rubber weighs the same per unit of measure as the catalyst, the mixture may not turn out as expected. Did the directions specify any suggested method of determining the mixture ratio?
richhotrain The mixing ratio is 10:1 rubber: catalyst. You need to be precise, so I use a small food scale to measure the volume of each component in grams.
I speed read through the posts so if this has already been answered I apologize. I'm wondering how well the brick detail was replicated using this method. The parts seem to be faithful reproductions. My problem when Walters discontinued the modulars was that I had plenty of walls, windows, doors, and foundations. What I was missing and had on back order were the cornices and pilasters. These have to fit in the notches of the wall sections so you need two sided replication. It seems that would be difficult to achieve with this method and I have no idea how you replicate the cornices.