Greetings,
I just got notification from the NTSB that unless I get all of my heavyweight passenger cars fitted with working (ie: clossing) diaphrams they will shut down about half the fleet. And all this at the same time we're facing revenue problems!
Does anyone out there have a recommendation for solving this problem. To start with I think it will mean diaphrams that have more than two folds and also have face plates that somehow clip together. To withstand the constant wear (going through the Cascades there are a lot of curves) it would help if they were rubber, or at least something other than paper.
Any suggestions?
The GN goat kid
I am assuming you mean diaphragms thst actually touch and stay touching during operation?
American Limited Models
http://www.americanlimitedmodels.com/locomotive-passenger-car-dia/
I used the American Limited diaphragms on some Athearn heavyweights that I repainted. They keep contact on my 26" curves. The faceplates slide against each other. I put Kadees in the truck mounted coupler pockets. Can't recall whether I used standard or shorter couplers to adjust the gap.
The photos show one car with the diaphragms, not yet installed on the other car.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Many years ago a guy wrote a clever article (MR? RMC? I cannot recall, but if it was MR it might have been in the old "Kinks" section - simple, quick and cheap ideas) about the diaphragms he made himself, using heavy black paper in an accordian fold, trimmed to diaphragm shape. In other words, sort of like the paper dolls your sister made as a child:
The natural springiness of the folds meant the diaphragms always touched, yet they were so light and flexible that they never hung up on each other when the cars go around curves etc. I suppose a variant would be to have the outside edge be very thin styrene. Obviously the folds were not authentic when viewed closely but the overall visusal result as I recall was very convincing. I express no view as to whether "paper doll" folded diaphragms can pass government inspection
Dave Nelson
I also use American Limited Diaphragms. They don't clip together, but they have plastic leaf springs on the top and sides that push the face-plates together. The smooth plastic face-plats slide against each other as the cars go into curves and through switches for reliable operation.
I have a pair of Bachmann BF16 (RF-16) locomotives that I installed diaphragms on. The diaphragms look great and operate well. I've had no issues.
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
I have used Americam Limited diaphragms on a number of cars, using Kadee 5 couplers with no problems. Shown here installed on MDC Harriman coach (B&M), Rivarossi diner (B&M), and Athearm BB coach (MEC)
The spring in the diaphragms does make it more difficult to uncouple due to the coupers being stretched. I usually lift the end of one car to slide the couplers apart vertically. I couple them by hand, pushing them to couple with a loco does not work well, as the diaphragms keep the ends apart
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I used the American Limited ones in the past...but this time, I used Walthers Diaphragms:
https://www.walthers.com/heavyweight-passenger-car-diaphragms-kit-pkg-2?ref=1
The are a fabric type paper already folded and retain their spring action when coupled, compress/contract. The stryker plate is vinyl. I put them on a ABBA set, with a Walthers Proto F3A powered, an Intermountain F3B powered was DCC but put in a 21 pin DC jumper, an Athearn F7B ''dummy'' with NWSL wheels and added weight and a Athearn F7 BB powered also with NWSL wheels, with LED lighting, only works in forward. They are all close coupled with Kadee 30 series 1/4 shank couplers. The ten passenger cars are Walthers 85' streamline cars that came with diaphragms, but they also have Kadee short shank 1/4 couplers in the swing arm body mounted coupler pockets, with all metal trucks for the lighting interior I also installed. There is just a very slight gap in the diaphragms when coupled together. All My curves are broad so I don't have any problems with the short shank couplers. I started putting grabs on all the cars....still three to go...some day!
I painted all of the diaphragms with Tamiya Acrylic flat Aluminum, with a brush. The fabric got a little stiff, but after opening/ closing a couple of times, they work fine and the paint does not flake.
Take Care!
Frank
EDIT: I had a pic' of a few cars coupled together, but I don't know what the heck happened to it....will have to take another or two.
Love that consist, Frank.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich,
Thanks......they all play nice together too.......even though the Athearn is a 12 to 1 gear ratio and the others are 14 to 1. They all start at about one and a half volt on DC.
Many years ago there was a great diaphragm available in HO by MHP. It had metal strikers and mounting plates with real rubber bellows. The strikers had small tabs bent out that mated with the matching car. They stayed put even on 18"r and looked pretty good. Maybe the detail doesn't match the American Ltd ones but the functioning was hard to beat. Sure wish someone was mking them today.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
oldline1Many years ago there was a great diaphragm available in HO by MHP. It had metal strikers and mounting plates with real rubber bellows. The strikers had small tabs bent out that mated with the matching car. They stayed put even on 18"r and looked pretty good....
I remember those, and had an A-B-B-A set of Globe diesels equipped with them.Nowadays,I use the ones from American Limited...
Wayne
For those of you who actually use the diaphragms from American Limited Models, let me say that I have long been intrigued with these diaphragms, but have never purchased any. So, let me ask you a basic question. Do your passenger cars ever derail as a result of friction or interference that might occur from these diaphragms touching each other?
oldline1 Many years ago there was a great diaphragm available in HO by MHP. It had metal strikers and mounting plates with real rubber bellows. The strikers had small tabs bent out that mated with the matching car. They stayed put even on 18"r and looked pretty good. Maybe the detail doesn't match the American Ltd ones but the functioning was hard to beat. Sure wish someone was mking them today. Roger Huber Deer Creek Locomotive Works
I used those yr's ago on Athearn six wheel truck HW.........I found that you needed to make sure the cars were weighted enough....especially if you had truck mounted couplers. My layout was all code 100 brass hand-laid track on fiber ties, with cork roadbed and all the curves were mounted on Tru-Scale plain milled road bed. The only problem I had was the six wheel trucks on some of the Atlas snap switches.....the Shinohara ones I didn't didn't have a problem with them.....the solution was to file down the flanges on the center wheel set...which worked like a charm.
A couple pic's from My two level layout 1959: One is a little faded..been a long time.
richhotrain For those of you who actually use the diaphragms from American Limited Models, let me say that I have long been intrigued with these diaphragms, but have never purchased any. So, let me ask you a basic question. Do your passenger cars ever derail as a result of friction or interference that might occur from these diaphragms touching each other? Rich
No never any derailments. Unlike some of the factory diaphragms from Walthers and others, Americam Limited diaphragms are "sprung" with an incredibly light amount of force.
It is very important to get the car spacing correct, so that the diaphragms are just touching each other, but not really compressed, when the train is being pulled, this allows for the sharpest possible operating radius depending on the length of the cars.
They work the same as the factory diaphragms of the Proto 2000 diesels, like the orginal FA, PA and E unit models. All of which I have and they work equally as well.
They do require reasonable sized curves, and that requirement increases with car length. I have tested my 72' cars down to about 28" radius, but I have 36" and larger, never any problems.
If the American Limited diaphragms are correctly installed, the car spacing is very protypical looking. It is a little more than the prototype spacing, but close enough.
If you buy the version made for the Athearn cars, it comes with a spacer to make them work with the factory car spacing and truck mounted couplers. I body mount my couplers and do not use those spacers.
I have them on a wide variety of brands of cars, but, I only have American Limited diaphragms. I have never tried to use them with other factory diaphragms except the Proto diesels.
Again, all my passenger cars are close coupled with working American Limited diaphragms. They do work with the Proto2000 diaphragms, example passenger car coupled to B unit.
This photo shows how close they allow the cars to be coupled:
The cars in this picture are ConCor, and I removed the cast on diaphragm/door frame before installing the new diaphragms. I do the same with the Athearn cars, both streamlined and heavyweight. The close coupling really looks so much better.
Sheldon
Thanks for that report, Sheldon.
Thanks to everyone on this feed. Good information, thoughts, and questions. I've ordered the diaphragms appropriate for my cars.
GN Goat Kit