Athearn's so called incandescent light bulbs look like the real ones because the lens are clear, this is not possible with Atlas models.
I guess I'm just getting lucky regarding Athearn. A guy at the local train store said those bulbs will last me quite a while and since I only go to about 4-5 train shows year with my club, burnout takes longer to happen.
Im still curious about what problems the OP is having with his BLI six axle locomotives.
Athearn's light bulbs are highly irritating. This is 2017, technology has advanced significantly, and we now have these wonderful Light Emitting Diodes. Get with the program Athearn..
Not really on topic, but I had an athearn RTR covered hopper completely disintegrate on me. Pulled the entire end off of the car...
ATSFGuySo far My Athearn Genesis units run real quiet and smooth, I know some of you don't like Athearn, but I'm happy with my units and locomotive roster.
So does my Genesis SCL GP9 since I had it gutted,remotored and rewired and that was after I replaced the burned out builbs with LEDs..
I still like Athearn but,their questionable QA/QC throws up approach with caution signals. I've had two Athearn RTR engines flywheels to come loose-a easy fix and bought FMC boxcars with stirrups laying in the car's tray.
To be fair I will state my other Athearn RTR cars and locomotives has given me no problems and is a vast improvement over my older BB cars and locomotives..
I still favor Atlas/Kato,Atlas Classic and my Atlas/Roco Alco switchers and P2K locomotives.My IM GP10 is very nicely done and a very smooth runner.
Of my two Bachmanns my DCC/Sound Alco S4 is still going strong while my GE70 Tonner had cracked gears.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have Athearn Genesis F3/F7 locomotives, one Atlas RS-3, a Roundhouse 2-6-0, four overland cars, some Walthers passenger cars, transition era freight cars, a good handful of different HO cabooses and I'm planning on getting some Walthers Superliners in the IV scheme if I can find some.
So far My Athearn Genesis units run real quiet and smooth, I know some of you don't like Athearn, but I'm happy with my units and locomotive roster.
I plan on getting a Bachmann GP7 or RS-3 as I heard they run good and don't suffer from cracked gears like the older Proto 2000 engines had.
On my railroad, any roadname, named train, caboose, or a certain locomotive is game as long as enough votes are revcieved. I do the transition era with a little bit of the present day.
Now, what road shall I add next?
Have insomnia?
Read this thread!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
tstage I think that would be the proverbial deceased equine, Andre. Nonetheless, I'm willing to let it rest. Tom
I think that would be the proverbial deceased equine, Andre. Nonetheless, I'm willing to let it rest.
Tom
And a relieved populace thanks you for that choice, Tom.
Andre
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
cuyama Never mind.
Never mind.
Your Hemingwayish spare use of words to express a feeling of increasing ennui is a bold counter statement to the prevailing modern trend of flogging a deceased equine until it becomes one with the soil, Byron. Bravo. Bravo, indeed.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhen I was young and had less money, I had less trains.
.
This is so true.
I the past 5 years all three daughters have moved out, I have been moved to a regional manager position, my wife has excelled at hear job, and we have paid off all the credit cards.
The train population is growing, and the quality if definitely improving.
Only 2 painted STRATTON & GILLETTE locomotives were saved from the previous running roster. All steam locomotives have been replaced.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
PRR8259 The point is the manufacturers are paying close attention to the folks on the Atlas Rescue Forum. Their track record of clamoring for certain engines and rolling stock to be produced over the last couple years at Genesis detail levels is actually astounding. While I might not need those items, both Athearn, and the guys who left Athearn (ScaleTrains), along with Rapido in particular have been serving up a plethora of new models that were hot discussion topics over on that forum. One could easily argue that the vast majority of the buying public maybe doesn't need or want some of those items, but they are getting made, including yet another SD-40-2...Though relatively few in numbers, the forum members have made strong enough arguments. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease".
The point is the manufacturers are paying close attention to the folks on the Atlas Rescue Forum. Their track record of clamoring for certain engines and rolling stock to be produced over the last couple years at Genesis detail levels is actually astounding. While I might not need those items, both Athearn, and the guys who left Athearn (ScaleTrains), along with Rapido in particular have been serving up a plethora of new models that were hot discussion topics over on that forum.
One could easily argue that the vast majority of the buying public maybe doesn't need or want some of those items, but they are getting made, including yet another SD-40-2...Though relatively few in numbers, the forum members have made strong enough arguments. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease".
So what? If they sell great, if not those companies will not last. I don't own anything from Rapido or Scale Trains - don't plan to at this point. The RDC is the only product they have made that is even on my radar - and while I understand its price, I'm not motivated to spend that kind of money on that item.
Scale Trains - I wish them luck, but they started off with a very "collector" or specialized group of product, hope it works out......
Still having fun with all my "pedestrian" model trains.......
I don't have time for the Atlas Rescue Forum, I barely have time for this one.....and I really don't care what they think about my old Proto locos. If they came to my layout and talked like that I would show them the door......
Again, why do you care so much what that group of people says?
Sheldon
Actually it takes far more then a few forum members to get models done. Does Face Book ring a bell? There's a mighty voice there that grabs the manufacturers attention both good and bad.
So,that " squeaky wheel" is far larger then the few tiny voices on ARF. ARF is just a small tooth on that rather large "squeaky wheel".
Also recall some fellas said on the old Atlas forum a GP10 will never get produce because of the variants between locomotives and all the while there was a larger clamour for a GP10.
IM listen to that clamour for a GP10 and now we have one with a GP16 in the works. Then we can't forget the Athearn/Genesis GP7u.
We still don't have that often ARF requested Genesis level older GE locomotive. Maybe some day when that larger "squeaky wheel" raises enough clamour to get the manufacturer's attention.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
PRR8259 Once again you completely misunderstand me and my intentions. The market is actually being driven by the loudest and most vocal 10 percent or less who are loudly clamoring for what they think the rest of us need. Read some posts on other forums like the Atlas Rescue Forum if you dont believe me. They are not posting flattering words about older Proto engines. And yes it is factually true that many in this hobby accumulate but never build the layout. That includes my friends who are now dead and gone, including another one just recently. I was by more than 15 years the youngest member of the group... I am merely telling it like it is. If you dont like it, fine, we need to agree to disagee. This battle of words is getting a bit old, no????
Once again you completely misunderstand me and my intentions.
The market is actually being driven by the loudest and most vocal 10 percent or less who are loudly clamoring for what they think the rest of us need. Read some posts on other forums like the Atlas Rescue Forum if you dont believe me. They are not posting flattering words about older Proto engines.
And yes it is factually true that many in this hobby accumulate but never build the layout. That includes my friends who are now dead and gone, including another one just recently. I was by more than 15 years the youngest member of the group...
I am merely telling it like it is. If you dont like it, fine, we need to agree to disagee. This battle of words is getting a bit old, no????
The market is driven by what sells, just look at the changes in the Bachmann line in the 5 years - moving away from high end. And Athearn still doing well selling 50 year old tooling with new paint jobs and metal wheels.
The market is also driven by what manufacturers will or will not take a chance on - that's why we have too many Big Boys and not enough variety.
Why are you so invested in what others say, do or think? What difference does it make who buys what and whether or not they build a layout?
Why would I care what someone on the Atlas Rescue forum says about older Proto locos? I have 40 of them and 25 years experiance with them, they all run great and look great. I have fun with them. My self esteem is not invested in the opinions of others about the model trains I own.
Happy to march to my own drum, don't need to be part of a "group". Trust me, you are not going to "save" anyone from themselves.........
Doughless ggnlars My test results show that Kato & Atlas china score highest overall and have the least variation model to model. Kato HO choices are limited. That's my opinion also. They both run magnificently and each loco is very consistent from model to model. You know what you're going to get every time you open the box. The other producers seem to have more inconsistency with their design of different models and how each individual loco within a particular model might run.
ggnlars My test results show that Kato & Atlas china score highest overall and have the least variation model to model. Kato HO choices are limited.
My test results show that Kato & Atlas china score highest overall and have the least variation model to model. Kato HO choices are limited.
That's my opinion also. They both run magnificently and each loco is very consistent from model to model. You know what you're going to get every time you open the box.
The other producers seem to have more inconsistency with their design of different models and how each individual loco within a particular model might run.
For reliabilty it's Atlas and Kato (HO scale) take the prize for first place. Intermountain's not bad and the Genesis line from Athearn is also, especially when it gets into detail on the diesels. But for smooth, quiet running.. the quality I personally like best, it's Atlas and Kato.
PRR8259 I got the dollars part. I used an average of the $200 to $400 further above you quoted for an entire ABBA set, of $300 (which could make sense today if one bought new F units), and equated 3 ABBA sets to the price of one extraordinarily detailed and painted brass steamer I got in an Ebay deal. It's simply a matter of preferences and priorities. I want the ultimate in detail and running quality, even if just plain dc. That comes at a price. We are comparing the cost of apples and oranges. Two completely different, opposite motive power philosophies. Both have some merit, at least to one of us. I have no big future layout plans so I don't need multiple trains. I want to have a couple big Rio Grande articulateds and some Rio Grande 4-8-2's to go with what I have now. That's really it. John
I got the dollars part. I used an average of the $200 to $400 further above you quoted for an entire ABBA set, of $300 (which could make sense today if one bought new F units), and equated 3 ABBA sets to the price of one extraordinarily detailed and painted brass steamer I got in an Ebay deal. It's simply a matter of preferences and priorities. I want the ultimate in detail and running quality, even if just plain dc. That comes at a price.
We are comparing the cost of apples and oranges. Two completely different, opposite motive power philosophies. Both have some merit, at least to one of us.
I have no big future layout plans so I don't need multiple trains. I want to have a couple big Rio Grande articulateds and some Rio Grande 4-8-2's to go with what I have now. That's really it.
John
John, but once again it seems your are trying to "sell" your modeling goals, and/or negate the goals of others. I don't want to "settle" for less quantity to get higher quality - because the quality already equals or exceeds my needs/wants/goals.
It is fine that you do not want to do what I am doing. But it sounded pretty condescending when you talk about guys with big rosters for layouts not built, with the obvious implication that those layouts will never get built......
And you talk about diesels like that only means "modern" modeling. Guess what, they had lots of diesels in 1954, that was 63 years ago......that is my era of modeling choice.
Detail - first about diesels. I'm sorry but ANY Proto2000 diesel is for the most part plenty accurate and well detailed enough for my goals...and I suspect for the goals of 90% of modelers in this hobby, even pretty serious ones.
Detail - steam. I have Bachmann Spectrum, Proto, BLI, some old brass and a few others in my steam fleet. The detail is good to great for the most part. And as previously disccused I don't buy into the OCD thing with detail since the documention simply does not exist to have every last little nut and bolt correct for September 25, 1954 at 2:37 PM - close enough is good enough........
Steam and diesel - they all run great. Most ran great out of the box - for $100 or $200, not $1,000. The few that did not run great I fixed....because I can.....or the manufacturer replaced.
I only buy what fits the theme and operational needs of the layout. I don't plan to buy much more in the way of motive power.
You keep suggesting that others might be happier if they tried your approach? I failed that class in school, guessing what others want or thinking I know better what is good for them than what they know themselves.
My brain does not have time to worry about what others might be happier doing......
I'm sorry if my choices in motive power are not up to your high standards......
But I am very happy with my fleet of DC powered Proto2000 first generation diesels that on average only cost me about $35 to $45 per powered unit back in 2002-2008.
They still work great, they still look great. They would bring little on the used market, but since they are what I WANT, that means nothing.
2002 I paid $200 each for two Proto 2-8-8-2's, likely the best plastic steamer ever built. I have 9 Spectrum 4-8-2 Heavy Mountains, some C&O, most ATLANTIC CENTRAL, no more than $100 in any one of them. Never had any problems, all run great.
When all those bargins were out there, I knew what I wanted and I scooped them up........
I can replace a few Proto gears, or make a few adjustments, no worries......
PRR8259 Sheldon-- Sorry if you feel I didn't quite get it. Maybe not Sheldon, but others tend to think in terms of how many diesel units they have on hand, or desire to have on hand, for the layout they think they will have. I actually get bargains on recent brass sometimes too, in which case a couple or three of your ABBA sets would indeed buy a top of the line factory painted steamer, from the very best builder out there, at the average prices you quote for your diesel sets (ie $900). It's all about smart shopping. Deals actually do become available. But again--that does not help one if it's not the exact roadname you want to have. I can respect that. In my case, I will and do buy something when I know it is simply a great buy, when I think I can flip it later for a lot more money if I need to do so. If and when I trade, I want to trade up, to where I'm getting something for less monetary outlay on my part than whatever its fair market value might be. John
Sheldon--
Sorry if you feel I didn't quite get it.
Maybe not Sheldon, but others tend to think in terms of how many diesel units they have on hand, or desire to have on hand, for the layout they think they will have.
I actually get bargains on recent brass sometimes too, in which case a couple or three of your ABBA sets would indeed buy a top of the line factory painted steamer, from the very best builder out there, at the average prices you quote for your diesel sets (ie $900).
It's all about smart shopping. Deals actually do become available.
But again--that does not help one if it's not the exact roadname you want to have. I can respect that.
In my case, I will and do buy something when I know it is simply a great buy, when I think I can flip it later for a lot more money if I need to do so. If and when I trade, I want to trade up, to where I'm getting something for less monetary outlay on my part than whatever its fair market value might be.
No John you missunderstood. $200 bought the whole four unit set of Proto FA2's. Actually it was less than $200 for those........
I don't think I have more than $120 in ANY single diesel unit. Many only cost $30 to $70 each.
And $300 is about my top expenditure for a steam loco.
130 powered units, dollar cost average = $100
Remember, no sound, no DCC.
Of those 130 powered units, about 50 are steam, about 7 are selfpropelled passenger, the rest diesel.
90% have been purchased in the last 20 years, remember I have been in the hobby for nearly 50 years. When I was young and had less money, I had less trains.
It's all about smart shopping. Deals actually do become available. Sometimes I'm shocked at what is out there for what price that people don't bid on.
But again--that does not help one if it's not the exact roadname you want to have. I can totally respect that.
I now have a better plan of what I want for my personal roster.
John,
I was not challenging the idea that brass should be in the discussion, it should be.
If you read my very first post in this thread I made the same challenging statement about KATO or Atlas, what difference does it make how good they are if they don't make what you want?
I have ZERO interest in modern diesels, you can pretty much count on one hand the diesels that KATO or Atlas have made that are in my 1954 era, so as a practical matter for me, their quality is of no importance.
If we count each unit of a multi unit diesel lashup as a locomotive, I have a bunch. In my era mainline diesel trains were pulled by 3, 4 or even 6 units as a common practice.
And I model steam in a place, time and way where many trains are double headed, just like most every west bound B&O freight leaving Baltimore in 1954 had two Mikados on the head end.
So if I look at it in terms of number of trains I can field motive power for, on a layout that can handle 50 to 60 car trains, the number is about 30 mainline trains and some switchers/special purpose locos.
Not really that many for an operation oriented 1000 sq ft layout that can store 25 trains.
And, not being in DCC or sound, and having bought a great many of my locos a decade or two ago, and having never sold off previous purchases, the current prices of DCC sound equiped locos do not relate to me either.
So your price comparison does not hold up for me. My "average" ABBA set of EMD F7's or ALCO FA's, or four GP7's typically represents a total investment of $200 to $400, sometimes less, no where near the price of some of your brass.
As this topic is about the best quality engines, I interpreted that to mean "best, period, regardless of price", and added my 2c about the brass. If we are discussing the best, period, I think the brass is worth mentioning as it is one alternative. Others will choose different alternatives.
I acknowledge that many will not share my views. However, when you think about it, for the dollar investment that many folks have in their loco rosters, they actually could have a few higher priced hybrids or even the full blown brass models for the same money invested--but just have less of them. Many folks are modeling a huge mainline empire (or storing engines in the closet diesel shed for someday).
For example, I'm not modeling in the diesel era, and my limited layout does not need helper engines. If I was in the diesel era, I would likely have 3 and 4 unit sets of diesels to simulate mainline operations. If I bought those as Genesis level units, for say 4 or 5 of them, I would be at the same price point as many (singular, one each) brass steam engines. So it's a matter of choices. Some have 80 unit or greater diesel rosters, and I have 5 steam engines. Which actually costs more, in total value? We all are making the best choices that we can with our limited hobby money. I chose to abandon present day modeling. I have friends who have easily more than 100 diesels in a closet and no layout yet to run them on.
Again, my hat is off to all those who are able to modify or build their own, who are fine with taking a USRA steamer and reconfiguring it to appear as something else.
Yes, Sheldon is right, I choose to try to find the very best possible, and then choose, from the rather limited availability of what is out there currently, the engines that I want to have. Also, if one chooses to be patient, there have been many models made in brass that have never/will never be available in plastic, and by waiting, they generally appear on the market, but in limited quantities. Then one has to jump on them if it is in fact the model that you know you want to have. So doing the research to know what you want and why you want it and what you want to pay for it (from somebody you think you can trust) is very important.
Otherwise, I too would have 80 to 100 diesel units on hand, which in my particular case would cost me actually much more than the five steamers on hand.
PRR8259 Boo Rim Precision and Sam Modeltech, both located in S. Korea, make great trains that run very well...except they happen to be brass (allegedly also including in Boo Rim's case, the brass hybrids made for BLI) but they are far from what anyone would call "cheap". Imo you get what you pay for, unless you are proficient enough to build/kitbash/otherwise modify your own motive power (my hat's off to those who do, but it ain't me). Others will not share my opinion, but I don't have to worry or fret about the QA/QC of plastic locomotives anymore. The very recent stuff from the brass importers has been fantastic where QA/QC is concerned, and even the BLI brass hybrids can be an excellent value, with rather few lemons. But then also, the choices are limited to what BLI offers. Then you are stuck with their sound (which may not be as good as the models are) and their smoke (which most just don't need). John
Boo Rim Precision and Sam Modeltech, both located in S. Korea, make great trains that run very well...except they happen to be brass (allegedly also including in Boo Rim's case, the brass hybrids made for BLI) but they are far from what anyone would call "cheap". Imo you get what you pay for, unless you are proficient enough to build/kitbash/otherwise modify your own motive power (my hat's off to those who do, but it ain't me). Others will not share my opinion, but I don't have to worry or fret about the QA/QC of plastic locomotives anymore. The very recent stuff from the brass importers has been fantastic where QA/QC is concerned, and even the BLI brass hybrids can be an excellent value, with rather few lemons. But then also, the choices are limited to what BLI offers. Then you are stuck with their sound (which may not be as good as the models are) and their smoke (which most just don't need).
Agreed, modern/current brass is generally outstanding in quality.
But as I commented above, if they don't make the models you want, than what difference does it make how good they are?
Maybe you are happy just picking something from a very short list, but many of us have more specific, or if I dare, more sophisticated goals.
Again, nothing against what you do in this hobby, but it simply does not fit with many peoples goals/wants.
As for cost, I spent $10 for trucks and couplers on nearly every one of 1000 freight cars, many of which were only $5 cars years ago when I bought them, we all make choices about performance and cost.
But since I can successfully work on model locomotives, most brass is way past my "point of diminishing returns". The better trucks and couplers on those freight cars that allow me to easily pull 50 car trains are way more important.
But I do agree, the latest and best brass is amazing in terms of quality and features.
fender777 But all of my Broadway Limited 6 axles suck compared to my Atlas 'Athearn. I will never buy any BL again. Junk IMHO.
In what way specifically?
Six axle locomotives (especially longer wheel base ones) require better quality trackwork. You can get away with absolutely awful track work with a 4 axle diesel.
Ive got a pair of BLI SD40-2s that run just fine, as well as a BLI E7. Only had a minor decoder glitch on the E7 (discussed at length on this forum somewhere, and yes I did get the new decoders installed, no I did not get to test them).
Im not a fan of having to move the locomotive for the sound to start though.
As far as Athearn goes, well, I had a Genesis GP7 show up (new from LHS) with a wheelset popped out of the side frame and detail parts floating around in the box. Athearn received a phone call and an email. Response was that other modelers were complaining about too much glue (except that in my case there was no evidence of glue). Also its weight is on the light side. My guess is this was a Monday morning or Friday afternoon locomotive.
Every manufacturer makes their own share of lemons.
I recently purchased 3 Intermountain SD40-2s, all from same production run, three different road numbers. 2 of them ran perfectly, one picked #6 turnout frogs. It had a warped truck upon close inspection (sent back for repair).
tstageI guess it depends on what you consider "quality"
Yes, this!!
It's all about priorities. I like the detail on Proto locos and I'm a sucker for Athearn's see-through fans, but I run on a club layout and those tiny plastic detail parts always worry me -- they are so easy to break.
I've come to appreciate locos I never thought I would like. My Walthers Mainline F40PHs may not have the best detail, but the wire grabs/handrails look good and they pull like no one's business. I used to worship Kato and recently bought a pair of GP35s, but truth be told they look a little plain, and on our massive club layout -- where we usually run 3-4 unit consists -- their fine running qualities are a little lost. I recently bought a cheap-o Bachmann GP40 with DCC on board. Detail is crap and it sounds like a garbage disposal, but mid-consist with a Genesis Geep and the Katos, it adds pulling power and you never notice the molded-on grabs. I can't stand to look at it by itself, but in a consist it does a great job.
A club member has a BLI Hudson that I just love; it looks and sounds great. But it has traction tires and it wobbles. If but if I paid what he paid, I'd be peeved.
Aaron
I am the opposite of Sheldon:
I try not to have to adjust brand new locomotives, because in my past experience, I personally sometimes do more harm than good, even when starting with the best intentions. Of course I open gearboxes and check lubrication, but I don't modify anything.
For that reason, I try to find what I believe to be the best engines available, regardless of price, that happen to be available and "correct" for a roadname I can live with (midwestern to southwestern). I run and enjoy them and am happy with them. Obviously, it has to be a model that I like--I don't just buy anything because it's available and lettered Santa Fe or Rio Grande--I'm actually pretty picky.
All that means I have rather few engines, or anything else, on my roster, but the ones I have are ...well, much better than what I could build/kitbash myself.
I will just make my age old comments for any new listeners.....what difference does it make how good a specifc brand is if they do not make the model you want? Are you actually going to settle for something other than what you want?
EVERY company makes winners and loosers, better to judge by the model, than by the brand. I have had great experiances with nearly every brand, and bad or "so-so" experiances with nearly every brand.
I have locos from Bachmann (Spectrum and regular line), Athearn (blue box, RTR and Genesis), Intermountain, Mantua, Rivarossi, Proto, BLI, and IHC.
The nice people at Atlas and KATO, good as they are, simply don't make very much I want, and what they have made that might want, was also made others, often by Proto, which I prefer for several reasons.
BUT, I have no issue with making small adjustments myself and "tweeking" locos to run their best........