I recently purchased an old AHM/Rivarossi Big Boy. It had sat on a shelf for several years, so the first thing I did was clean and lube it. It ran, but the square 3 pole motor was quite noisy and rough, so I decided to remotor the locomotive.
I found this thread (http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/193714/2115155.aspx) and also another on a different forum, so went ahead and cut the frame down, modified the drive shaft, and installed a Canon DN22 motor I found on eBay. The motor is quiet, the locomotive runs smooth, but it's very s-l- o-w. I had looked at this spec sheet from Canon, so I thought it would be ok, but I suspect the motor I got is a 24v motor, not a 12v motor, as it seems to be running at about half speed with the throttle all the way up.
I'm trying to pick a better motor (without going broke), so I'm looking at a Canon EN22 and a Mabuchi FK-280. Any advice? Also do these locos pull very well with a new motor?
Gary
Gary,
Just for fun (mine), how about doing an official speed test on the loco.
I have a nice articulated that looks like it's going pretty slow at top speed. I clocked it, though, at 55 MPH. Which I am told really was the all-out top speed this guy ever attained.
Ed
7j43k Gary, Just for fun (mine), how about doing an official speed test on the loco. I have a nice articulated that looks like it's going pretty slow at top speed. I clocked it, though, at 55 MPH. Which I am told really was the all-out top speed this guy ever attained. Ed
Don't know how official it is, but I ran it at full speed just now, and used a couple of different calculators...came out at 38 MPH. My layout has no grades, either.
I was running it on my friend's layout last night, which does have some grades, and it nearly stalled a few times even without pulling any cars. So I think I need a motor with more wheaties and more weight on the drivers if this loco is going to be anything but a display piece.
garya I recently purchased an old AHM/Rivarossi Big Boy. It had sat on a shelf for several years, so the first thing I did was clean and lube it. It ran, but the square 3 pole motor was quite noisy and rough, so I decided to remotor the locomotive. I found this thread (http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/193714/2115155.aspx) and also another on a different forum, so went ahead and cut the frame down, modified the drive shaft, and installed a Canon DN22 motor I found on eBay. The motor is quiet, the locomotive runs smooth, but it's very s-l- o-w. I had looked at this spec sheet from Canon, so I thought it would be ok, but I suspect the motor I got is a 24v motor, not a 12v motor, as it seems to be running at about half speed with the throttle all the way up. I'm trying to pick a better motor (without going broke), so I'm looking at a Canon EN22 and a Mabuchi FK-280. Any advice? Also do these locos pull very well with a new motor?
Interesting. My Rivarossi Big Boy is in the box but disassembled for this very project. Never got the EN-22 ordered but was definitely going the remotor route with it.
Do you have any pictures of your conversion to share? Looks like you were taking the same route with yours that I found.
Opinions on the Kato HM-5 motor to use in the boiler? I think Kato has their quality together a lot better than a good chunk of other manufacturers.
JEREMY CENTANNI Interesting. My Rivarossi Big Boy is in the box but disassembled for this very project. Never got the EN-22 ordered but was definitely going the remotor route with it. Do you have any pictures of your conversion to share? Looks like you were taking the same route with yours that I found. Opinions on the Kato HM-5 motor to use in the boiler? I think Kato has their quality together a lot better than a good chunk of other manufacturers.
I didn't think to snap any photos when I was doing the work; I regret that now.
There's a pic of the "finished" job at http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9283
I found some instructions on steamlocomotive.com that described cutting off the motor mount "forks" on the frame. I did that, and built up the floor of the cab with some styrene so I had a platform for the motor. I trimmed the drive shaft, drilled a 2mm hole, and friction fit the motor shaft, then glued the motor down with bathtub caulk. I had to trim the sides of the cab and the internal bulkhead to fit around the motor, and you have to make sure the mounting screw near the cab is clear.
I noticed on the micorlocomtion ebay site Mel linked to is a motor listed as "ideal 4 Rivvy Steam"; it may be possible to replace the old motor without any surgery:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-2626-motor-ideal-4-Rivvy-steam-2-mm-shaft-/152463952225?hash=item237f8f4961
Ok cool thanks.
I saw the EN-22 mention and thought you went w/ motor in the boiler. Caught you went with the DN after the fact.
I just can't do it and put the engine back in the cab, guess it's getting heavy surgery.
garya I noticed on the micorlocomtion ebay site Mel linked to is a motor listed as "ideal 4 Rivvy Steam"; it may be possible to replace the old motor without any surgery: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-2626-motor-ideal-4-Rivvy-steam-2-mm-shaft-/152463952225?hash=item237f8f4961 (not sure if links to eBay are allowed.)
(not sure if links to eBay are allowed.)
JEREMY CENTANNI Ok cool thanks. I saw the EN-22 mention and thought you went w/ motor in the boiler. Caught you went with the DN after the fact. I just can't do it and put the engine back in the cab, guess it's getting heavy surgery.
NWSL has some info on putting a motor in the boiler.I didn't want to go that far...http://nebula.wsimg.com/509f22fc17a571f201765d77efdae99b?AccessKeyId=08BEE66B97B387F20C0D&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Here's an Igarashi motor that'll do the job: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flat-can-motor-has-5-skewed-poles-double-2-mm-shafts-/152054503622?hash=item23672798c6
I've used these before with great results, and they're actually the same motors used in some modern Rivarossi steam engines. I've also seen them in BLI.
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Darth Santa Fe Here's an Igarashi motor that'll do the job: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flat-can-motor-has-5-skewed-poles-double-2-mm-shafts-/152054503622?hash=item23672798c6 I've used these before with great results, and they're actually the same motors used in some modern Rivarossi steam engines. I've also seen them in BLI.
Thanks for that. Been tracking those for a long time but never found anyone with first hand experience.
garya JEREMY CENTANNI Interesting. My Rivarossi Big Boy is in the box but disassembled for this very project. Never got the EN-22 ordered but was definitely going the remotor route with it. Do you have any pictures of your conversion to share? Looks like you were taking the same route with yours that I found. Opinions on the Kato HM-5 motor to use in the boiler? I think Kato has their quality together a lot better than a good chunk of other manufacturers. I didn't think to snap any photos when I was doing the work; I regret that now. There's a pic of the "finished" job at http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9283 I found some instructions on steamlocomotive.com that described cutting off the motor mount "forks" on the frame. I did that, and built up the floor of the cab with some styrene so I had a platform for the motor. I trimmed the drive shaft, drilled a 2mm hole, and friction fit the motor shaft, then glued the motor down with bathtub caulk. I had to trim the sides of the cab and the internal bulkhead to fit around the motor, and you have to make sure the mounting screw near the cab is clear. I noticed on the micorlocomtion ebay site Mel linked to is a motor listed as "ideal 4 Rivvy Steam"; it may be possible to replace the old motor without any surgery: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-2626-motor-ideal-4-Rivvy-steam-2-mm-shaft-/152463952225?hash=item237f8f4961 (not sure if links to eBay are allowed.)
Just as a question, how did you trim the internal bulkhead on the boiler cover? I'm just wondering because I am doing my own rivarossi re-motor and I want to insure I am doing it correctly. I have purchased a DN-22 12V motor for the locomotive as per many reccomendations from other modelers and I have done some modifications to the weight to fit the motor.
Thanks!
I used a dremel on low speed. It was a little melty, so I cleaned it up with a file.
I'm traveling now, but I'll post some pictures when I get home. I took some pictures the other day--I took out my DN22 and replaced it with an EN22. In another thread, I posted the ohms and voltages of the motors. The DN22 was 60 ohms and the EN22 9; the motors started at 3.4 v and .5 v, respectively. Now it runs really well, maybe too fast. It had no problems with grades and could pull 15 cars no problem.
garya I used a dremel on low speed. It was a little melty, so I cleaned it up with a file. I'm traveling now, but I'll post some pictures when I get home. I took some pictures the other day--I took out my DN22 and replaced it with an EN22. In another thread, I posted the ohms and voltages of the motors. The DN22 was 60 ohms and the EN22 9; the motors started at 3.4 v and 5 v, respectively. Now it runs really well, maybe too fast. It had no problems with grades and could pull 15 cars no problem.
I'm traveling now, but I'll post some pictures when I get home. I took some pictures the other day--I took out my DN22 and replaced it with an EN22. In another thread, I posted the ohms and voltages of the motors. The DN22 was 60 ohms and the EN22 9; the motors started at 3.4 v and 5 v, respectively. Now it runs really well, maybe too fast. It had no problems with grades and could pull 15 cars no problem.
I fugured you used a dremmel, but I was wanting to make sure. Another question, is the EN-22 better than the DN-22. I've heard lots about the two but mostly the DN-22 being just a hair less on torque. I have no idea about electrical measurements so I wouldnt be able to measure them myself. I still havent installed the DN-22 yet so I could make the change if the EN-22 is the better option.
RR_Mel You are correct about the DN22 having slightly less torque than a EN22 providing both are 12 volt with a 10 ohm winding. If either have a 50 ohm or more winding it is a 24 volt motor and will not work. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951 My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
So...other than the slightly less torque, the motors are the same? I'm jist assuming. If the EN-22 is better, the only ones I can find have worm gears on them. Is there some where I could ge them without the worm gear? If not, how do I remove the worm gear?
Mantua Man RR_Mel You are correct about the DN22 having slightly less torque than a EN22 providing both are 12 volt with a 10 ohm winding. If either have a 50 ohm or more winding it is a 24 volt motor and will not work. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951 My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps. So...other than the slightly less torque, the motors are the same? I'm jist assuming. If the EN-22 is better, the only ones I can find have worm gears on them. Is there some where I could ge them without the worm gear? If not, how do I remove the worm gear?
The EN22 is a 5-pole motor, the DN22 is a 3-pole motor. The frame and body is the same.
The one I bought had a black plastic worm gear on it. I found these EN22 , on eBay.
Not sure if the photos will show...
Anyway, I wanted to make sure I left the screw clear as well as the cab sides. The motors sticks out a bit in the back, but with the tender coupled up it's not that noticeable.
I need to tweak the decoder settings with this new motor--it runs much faster and has plenty of power. I will probably limit the high end to about 65mph, and have 1/2 throttle about 30 mph.
garya Mantua Man RR_Mel You are correct about the DN22 having slightly less torque than a EN22 providing both are 12 volt with a 10 ohm winding. If either have a 50 ohm or more winding it is a 24 volt motor and will not work. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951 My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps. So...other than the slightly less torque, the motors are the same? I'm jist assuming. If the EN-22 is better, the only ones I can find have worm gears on them. Is there some where I could ge them without the worm gear? If not, how do I remove the worm gear? The EN22 is a 5-pole motor, the DN22 is a 3-pole motor. The frame and body is the same. The one I bought had a black plastic worm gear on it. I found these EN22 , on eBay. Not sure if the photos will show... Anyway, I wanted to make sure I left the screw clear as well as the cab sides. The motors sticks out a bit in the back, but with the tender coupled up it's not that noticeable. I need to tweak the decoder settings with this new motor--it runs much faster and has plenty of power. I will probably limit the high end to about 65mph, and have 1/2 throttle about 30 mph.
If the EN-22 only has a little more torque and is faster, than I might stick with the DN-22 three pole. I have checked and mine is the 12V version and it runs excellently. Though the EN-22 is very convincing (Other than the worm gear on it, the last time I tried pulling one off a motor I tried for a good hour and it never budged) I am still struggling over the EN or DN choice. I might just order the EN-22 in case I change my mind and want it. There are plenty around and I can see if I can get the worm gear off.
Thanks much!
RR_Mel If you don’t want to save the worm gear you could crush it with a pair of pliers or vice-grips. The pressure won’t hurt the shaft and the gear will fall off. I just tried that with one of my EN22s, the gear split and was easily removed. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951 My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Sounds good. I will go ahead and order an EN-22 and try that method. I've gone ahead and cut the mounting off the origional frame and am adjusting the DN-22 I have in there now (Not secure) to see how the motor will fit. I think I mught get a pair of NWSL universal connectors for the motor-shaft conversion. Though the space is extremely limited so for now I'm using a ruber tube from an old mantua kit. I know this puts stress on the motor but once I get the NWSL joints i'll replace it.
Thanks Much!