As odd as it is I am also a fan of Penn central passenger service. I know that the passenger cars never or should I say rarely matched or clean.
What cars would our members recommend to make up a Penn Central passenger train? No brass or high dollar cars please.
Thanks,
Dave
You're preachin' to the choir here. I enjoy running lots of pre-Amtrak PC passenger stuff every now-and then.
It takes time to build a roster if budget constraints are an issue. The first place to watch is the Walthers Bargain Depot or the monthly flyer. Over the past few years they have had lots of ex-PRR, NYC and New Haven stuff on closeout prices.
Rapido has recently released the New Haven 8600 coaches and almost all of those survived into PC. Often, a quick "patch-job" was done where the original PRR or NYC paint was just left in place and the PC "Mating Worms" were stenciled over the existing emblems.
Microscale has Penn-Central decal sets that you could use to do this patch work on NYC, PRR or New Haven cars.
http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MD&Product_Code=87-1383&Category_Code=PC
Mount Vernon Shops has neat, dulux gold PC decals for re-lettering ex-PRR sleepers.
https://www.mountvernonshops.com/products/ho-penn-central-ex-prr-dulux-lettered-passenger-car-decals
Walthers has offered several ex-NYC and PRR cars lettered for PC so keep a look out for those. Of course you would want some B-60-B baggage cars, too. Many of the Rivarossi cars are great stand-ins for PC cars as some of them were modeled after PRR cars, although the square-end observation cars did not see service into Penn-Central.
I sure wish Walthers would have run the PRR twin-unit diners in the "stripped" stainless look. PRR stripped the Tuscan paint off these cars, along with the converted 21 roomette cars, right before the merger and they stayed that way into Amtrak.
The recently released Broadway Limited P70 coaches could also be "modernized" into a Penn Central car but out of the box they represent an older class from the WWII era.
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4393388
The primary color used on P-C passenger cars was "Deepwater Green" as seen on the baggage car in the top photo.
Here's a look at the equipment available on trains from the November 8, 1970 timetable:
Other than commuter trains, Penn Central was in the long-distance passenger business for a mere 38 months!
Have Fun, Ed
Wow Ed, thank you for all the great information.
You would think that with all the Pennsy guys in this area there would be a few more then what we have that model the PC and not one models PC passenger service.
But with all the great stuff you posted Ed, you will keep me busy for quite awhile.
Around my neck of the woods, the PRR guys stick there noses up at the PCRR guys.
I love my mismatched consists of NYC, PRR and PCRR locos.
Of course three units of PCRR locos, with sound, look really sharp no matter how clean or grungy they are.
Then come the passanger cars, green, tuscan, two tone gray and stainless steel mostly Walthers for the looks and Athearn for fill in.
gmpullman The recently released Broadway Limited P70 coaches could also be "modernized" into a Penn Central car but out of the box they represent an older class from the WWII era.
At least one original configuration P-70 made it to green, so the Broadway cars would work.
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1059959
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
steemtraynAt least one original configuration P-70 made it to green, so the Broadway cars would work.
That's pretty neat!
At the bottom of this page is a chart showing what P70 classes were still on the roster on merger day:
http://www.pennsyrr.com/index.php/passenger/94-operations/passenger/469-the-p70-in-the-pennsy-coach-fleet
Looks like 210 were still surviving.
[edit]
Here's ANOTHER
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129679309@N05/19548230510/in/pool-penncentralmemories/
Time will tell if Broadway will offer a P70gsR or P70fbR. I'm not holding my breath but it seems like the first runs sold out pretty quickly, so that might be a plus.
Regards, Ed
When you say you aren't interested in high end or brass, you impose a limitation. Another limitation might be minimum radius, which could require shorter cars that don't exactly match the prototype. For what it's worth, here are some suggestions from my collection. My cars are in the original PRR and NYC schemes, but quivalent cars are available (or may be available) in the PC schemes. Some of these are long out of production, however, and your best source might be ebay or a Train show.
PRR B60 baggage car (Walthers, Bethlehem, and possibly others)
NYC P-S 64 seat fluted coach, Walthers 932-16785
PRR P85 coach, Centralia Car Shops CCS4530 (out of production)
NYC Budd Grill-Diner, Walthers 932-15125
PRR Budd 68 seat diner, Walthers 932-9640, paired with Budd Kitchen-Dormitory car, Walthers 932-9650
PRR P-S Plan 4140 10-6 sleeper, Walthers 932-6847
NYC Budd 10-6 Sleeper, Walthers 932-15145
NYC P-S 10-6 Sleeper, Walthers 932-9313
Tom
In addition to weathering just about everything, don't forget copious amounts of weeds, especially between the rails. For passenger cars, try using an X-Acto blade to scribe some windows for the prototypical broken glass-look. And don't forget to drill small holes in the floor so that the passengers can watch the ties go by. I'm not sure how you'd get the heat to work only in the summer and the a/c to work only in the winter, but PC did it so there must be a way... Oh, and add a lot of rock thrown damage to the cars (dented stainless steel) and a whole lot of trash along the RoW...and rust...and grime...
As for actual models, the Rapido 8600 coaches in PC will be out soon, but they're $100 list price. They also did the Osgood Bradley coaches in PC green. The Bachmann Spectrum P70's are decent PRR coaches, but you really should replace the couplers. I don't think they did PC, but that's what decals are for.
Why would you think that PRR guys would model PC? Maybe they don't want to glory in the biggest failure in American business history until Enron? The 1970's were a bad time in the US. Horrible fashion, stagflation, the oil crisis, the nationwide "malaise"...sheesh. And the railroads were dying one by one. I'm glad I missed most of it.
PC101 Then come the passanger cars, green, tuscan, two tone gray and stainless steel mostly Walthers for the looks and Athearn for fill in.
I never seen any two tone gray coaches. I researched the Penn Central and I never saw or mention of them.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
I saw the beginnings of PC and the end and the in between but please Paul3 it was not as bad as you paint it. Yes there was issues. I became a fan right from the beginning and still am.
I am also a fan of the Pennsylvania electric locomotives like the gg1, E33, E44's and others. So once the pennsy came to an end my like for the PC just increased.
Paul3 In addition to weathering just about everything, don't forget copious amounts of weeds, especially between the rails. For passenger cars, try using an X-Acto blade to scribe some windows for the prototypical broken glass-look. And don't forget to drill small holes in the floor so that the passengers can watch the ties go by. I'm not sure how you'd get the heat to work only in the summer and the a/c to work only in the winter, but PC did it so there must be a way... Oh, and add a lot of rock thrown damage to the cars (dented stainless steel) and a whole lot of trash along the RoW...and rust...and grime...
What Paul3 also forgot to mention was... Missing ballast and muddy disorganized track. A lot of derailments in the yard and the main line.
Here's a movie explaining everything. Penn Central 1974
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmyYqfNYnc
It's very sad of the reality of 70s railroads.
I did find a promotional video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IPlLt1Wsor0
Sorry for the confusion, that two tone gray would have been inherited from the NYC.
The Walthers Mainline (910 series) large window coach, baggage-RPO, diner, obs, and 10-6 sleeper are all NYC prototypes, and come in undec as well as NYC. The small window coach and baggage lounge are not NYC cars.
Terry
David,Yes, PC really was that bad. Standing derailments, losing $1 million a day, allowing the Poughkeepsie Bridge to burn (telling everyone it's too badly damaged for service, yet after 40 years of no maintenance not only is it still standing, it's a State Park with concrete deck heavier than any train), etc. I doubt you'll ever find a New Haven fan that likes the PC.
Did you know that the NH had kept records (including loco plans, drawings, etc.) in the basement of Boston's South Station dating back to the early to mid-1800's? PC threw it all in a dumpster. Did you know that the very last DL-109 was in Boston and that Jim Bradley (who saved a bunch of NH heavyweight cars) tried to acquire it, but PC scrapped it instead? Did you know that TOFC service between Boston and NYC was still a profitable business for the NH in 1968, but that PC got rid of it because they wanted everything to go via Selkirk? Did you know that PC would stage derailments on purpose, then use it as an excuse to stop service? At least according to my neighbor who was the Division Civil Engineer for NH, PC, & CR. Did you know that PC wanted to single-track the NEC southwest of Providence, where currently the Acela does 150mph? Did you know that PC wanted to abandon the Providence & Worcester RR, which still existed on paper and caused them to re-start independant operation, something they've done profitably for the last 40+ years?
My mom rode the commuter trains into Boston during the PC era, and she says it was interesting watching the ties through the holes in the floor, or watching the water slosh between the window panes, and how the A/C and heat only worked when you didn't want them to. How when you sat on the seats, a cloud of dust would enevelop you, and how you didn't dare wear anything light in color because it would be soiled by the time you got off the train. And so on. It was a bad time in American railroading.
Hi Dave,
I recently updated an older AHM 10-6 sleeper car to run in a PC passenger train. Using photos from the Pass car website the project was pretty simple but effective.
Here's a link to the project;
http://newyorkcentrallayout.blogspot.com/2016/11/penn-central-10-6-sleeper-car-project.html
Good Luck on your project!
John
John R.
EmpireStateJR Hi Dave, I recently updated an older AHM 10-6 sleeper car to run in a PC passenger train. Using photos from the Pass car website the project was pretty simple but effective. Here's a link to the project; http://newyorkcentrallayout.blogspot.com/2016/11/penn-central-10-6-sleeper-car-project.html Good Luck on your project! John
Paul3,
Don't get me wrong there were plenty of problems with the Pennsy--NYC merger. You can't put two money losing railroads together and expect to make a profit. They were broke, infrastructure was let go for years, maintenance of cars and engines were almost non existent. They were scraping things things because they needed the money plain and simple. At one time they had over 20,000 cars that were not available because of issues. My god the NYC and Pennsy could not even communicate with each other.
I rode the PC to philly everyday for work and yes they were not in the best of shape but I never saw the amount of decay your mother did. It was a bad time for railroading in the NE.
Saying all of the above I am still a fan of the Penn Central, I will model a what if they succeeded. Always liked the paint scheme, plain but attractive to me.
In the end the merger never had a chance to succeed, it was never financially supported ending any small chance it may of had.
Having worked on the PRR and then PC I will say it went from bad to worst and Paul3 summed it up quite nicely.
As a brakeman you took your life in your hands any time you swung off/on a home road car since these cars was seeing very little or no maintence and a rusty stirrup could and would break in some extreme cases. Some yard track was so bad yard switchmen refused to ride the side of freight cars.
Here's the sad story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmyYqfNYnc
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I also worked on the PRR and PC, and in many locations, the conditions were as bad or worse than Paul and Brakie described. There was a stretch in 1973, when there was a main line wreck/day somewhere on the Chesapeake Division. Track was bad, morale was bad, the only thing good was the volume of freight business, (much of it not self sustaining, unfortunately).
Passenger trains were a mix of PC Green, Tuscan Red, NH Orange, and stainless steel. The only cars painted NYC Two tone gray, were several of the Office cars.
Most cabin cars were PC Green, most motors and diesels were dark green or black.
MU equipment was mostly PC green or Tuscan Red, newer cars were stainless steel.
It was a very interesting time. Currently, my modeling interest runs from late PRR to Early PC, Timeline 1967 - 1970 before things really fell apart.
You would think Walthers would do a second run of PC passenger cars with correct window arrangements. PC had many different types of passenger cars after NYC and PRR merged.
So far, I'm looking down the track and see nothing.
A Penn Central commercial featuring Plymouth automobiles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFBP063uTgQ