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Dish Soap or Alcohol? I forgot .................

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  • From: Southeast Texas
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Dish Soap or Alcohol? I forgot .................
Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, October 1, 2016 2:29 PM

I'm ready to do ground cover and ballast on the loco facilities area of my HO layout.  I've put down ballast and ground cover at various times over the last 60 years plus, but not in the last 4 months or so.

In my MR "larder", I have white glue, liquid dish soap, and alcohol.  For the life of me, I can't recall if I mix a few drops of soap with white glue / water to dribble over ballast, or if its alcohol rather than the soap.

I'm sure it won't matter a hill of spikes, but I'm at a loss here and need help.

Thanks all!

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, October 1, 2016 2:36 PM

David Popp uses 70% alcohol in one of the recent MR vids, so that is what I am using.  I'm pretty sure I used soap 20 yrs ago.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, October 1, 2016 2:52 PM

I use 70% Alcohol over the ballast first then 8:1 white glue (8 water to 1 glue) before the Alcohol evaporates.  The Alcohol breaks the surface tension and the glue flows quickly and disappears as it dries.  Been doing it that way for over 50 years.    
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 1, 2016 3:28 PM

I use a few drops of liquid dish detergent in tap water, then apply it generously using a sprayer which allows a fine mist.  Do not skimp on the amount applied, as the glue/water mixture applied next, used to bond everything in place, will not penetrate where the material has not been sufficiently wetted. 
Failure to pre-wet the area adequately is the main cause for Woodland Scenics ballast "floating" when applying the glue/water mixture, and is also the cause of a hardened crust of ballast with still-loose ballast beneath it, discovered only when you vacuum the area after cleaning the rails.

Alcohol seemingly works as well, but it costs more and dries more quickly, a problem if you're doing large areas at the same time.  It can also, in some instances, remove paint from rails and ties, and discolour nearby painted structures that may get caught in the overspray.
I don't use it, as I find the smell of the alcohol irritating, even though I quite enjoy the smell of the drinkable kind. Wink

Wayne

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, October 1, 2016 3:43 PM

My fail safe, fool proof method is to spray 70% isopropyl alcohol on the area to be glued. This allows the glue mix to be evenly absorbed.

Then, I apply the glue mix with an eyedropper.  For the glue mix, I use 4 parts water, 1 part glue, and a few drops of liquid detergent.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by selector on Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:12 PM

I only use the drug store 70% isopropyl alcohol as a wetting agent on my dry ballast.  For scenery ground foam bits, and to glue the ballast after the alcohol, I use yellow carpenters' glue, water, and a couple of drops of dish soap.  I mix the glue approximately one part glue with five parts water, and add the two obligatory drops of dish detergent.  I have reliable and satisfactory results with this time after time.

  • Member since
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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:26 PM

Thanks folks, you've answered my question.  As I now recall, I actually have used both alcohol or dish soap to make water "wetter".   When I started to make a mix this afternoon, I must have had a brain cloud (or was it something else???).

ENJOY !

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by basementdweller on Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:26 PM

I too use the alcohol method, spray down the ballast and apply glue mix, be generous. I use an old elders glue bottle with a twisty top to apply the glue. 

Take your time around turnouts, I use an eye dropper and put one drop of glue between each tie. 

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:43 PM

I use alcohol straight from the bottle.  I'm sure it would work if watered down somewhat, or even a lot, but it's too cheap to bother with that extra step.  I apply it with a pipette.  Spraying anything always makes a mess where I don't want it, and sometimes disturbs my carefully-spread ballast.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:48 PM

LION does not use alochol or dish soap. LION does not use glue.

LION is very prototypical, him simply uses GRAVITY! Hasn't failed me yet!

If changes need you to make simply brsh it away, and make your change.

LION buys his ballast at Walmart, a 25 pound bag for about $7.00. Just so long as you do not mind the picture of a cat on the bag.

 : )

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:58 PM

I do use dish soap in a spray bottle, but it's for wetting the inside of a mold before pouring Hydrocal for rock castings.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by dknelson on Saturday, October 1, 2016 5:53 PM

.... and if you go way back you remember when photograph developing liquid was recommended by Linn Westcott as a wetting agent. 

I myself do use isopropyl alcohol, and with a small amount of india ink added so that I am also toning down the ballast as I wet it.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, October 1, 2016 6:23 PM

Alcohol dries a lot faster than water and dish soap, too.  With soap, it sometimes too 2-3 days before it was fully hardened.  Alcohol is overnight, if that.

 

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Saturday, October 1, 2016 8:35 PM

I never had much success with dishwashing soap. My recipe is:

-wetting agent : 70% isopropyl alcohol diluted in water (2 parts alcohol for 8 parts water);

-glue mix : white glue diluted in water (1 part glue for 1 to 2 parts of water).

That works great for ballast and ground cover. I am no expert in chemistry but I know this leads to faster drying than plain isopropyl alcohol or dishwashing soap.

I am happy with the results and it is cheap. I will never experiment with anything else. The results are there. Period.

 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by G Paine on Saturday, October 1, 2016 10:33 PM

For me, it partially depends on what manufacturer's ballast I am using. For Woodland Scenics ballast, the water with a few drops of dish soap does not work was well as 1 part rubbing alcohol mixed with 5 parts water. Real rock ballast does well with either wetting agent. I use 50/50 white glue and water for the adhesive.

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

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Posted by Graham Line on Sunday, October 2, 2016 9:43 AM
Westcott and others used Photoflo, which was a wetting agent used to prevent water spots on processed film. It's still around, but there aren't many camera shops.
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Sunday, October 2, 2016 5:12 PM

I find that a glass of IPA (India Pale Ale, not Iso Propyl Alcohol) makes the job go easier when I've got a lot of dishes to wash.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, October 2, 2016 7:42 PM

MisterBeasley

I find that a glass of IPA (India Pale Ale, not Iso Propyl Alcohol) makes the job go easier when I've got a lot of dishes to wash.

 
It's good to know that there's at least one other modeller out there who knows the correct words represented by those initials. BeerYesSmile, Wink & Grin
If you're not too concerned about Rule G, it's also nice when running a (model) train. Big Smile
 
Wayne

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