I was wondering if (for a new madelrailroader) I should stick with pre built cars? I can only go to train shows and find the rolling stock that I want, and buy them from companys that build the rolling stock and sell them. I am looking for pere marquette rolling stock for my 1225 pere marquette steam locomotive. Thanks for any feedback!
Either way works. I enjoy model building so I assemble kits, kitbash kits, and sometimes scratchbuild. It you are more into running trains than building trains, the ready-to-run stuff looks pretty good and runs pretty good. Most of my rolling stock came from train shows and got a bit of spiffing up, sometimes no more than a wash in hot soapy water.
I would expect you may have to acquire rolling stock painted for other roads, and repaint and decal them for the Pere Marquette. I recently acquired an old Pere Marquette 2-8-4 Berkshire and repainted and decaled it for the Boston & Maine.
I have some low end train set cars that look pretty good after a shot of Dullcote to fade out the bright toylike colors, body mounted Kadee couplers, and some ballast to bring 'em up to NMRA recommended weight.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
If I were in your shoes, I think I'd buy a few ready-to-run cars to get started, then add to the roster over time by buying a few simple kits. The kits can become more complex as your skills improve and your confidence and knowledge base expands.
Tom
What does your gut tell you to do?
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
It doesn't have to be either/or. RTR is great for getting started quickly and working on kits will help expand and perfect your skills. I'd be willing to say that the majority of us have a mixed bag of RTR, kit built, bashed, and scratch built.
The first thing I would ask is how experienced are you at model building? Many of us, me included, started building model airplanes and cars in Middle School. For example, if one has built a Monogram/Revell 1:48 Scale B-17G reasonably well, one won't have much trouble with most HO car kits.
Secondly, if I were just starting out and wanted to try building car kits, the kits to start with are made by Athearn. They're in a solid blue box (no plastic window) with a steam engine on the cover (usually), and are thus called "Athearn Blue Box" or "Athearn BB". They are relatively simple and robust. They take a lot of abuse and they are inexpensive. After you build the first dozen or so, you'll learn with experience what works and doesn't work. The metal clips that hold the couplers on, for example, can be tricky...but there are several things one can do to overcome that without breaking anything. You'll just have to figure that out. Just like with the truck screws; if you put them on crooked or overtighten the screws, bad things will happen to the car's ability to stay on the rails.
Other simple kit cars are from Accurail and Bowser. They are more delicate and more expensive. I would only tackle these after trying out the Athearns. They are better models than Athearn, being closer to scale appearance in a lot of respects, but the fit of parts is more tricky for some of them.
As you progress, kits from Red Caboose, InterMountain, Branchline, etc., will truly test your model building skills. They have very fine details that are easily broken and require special tools just to cut them off the sprue without damaging them. These kinds of kits are something to aim for, but should not be attempted by new model builders.
As for cars for your PM 1225, since it was a freight hauler, just about any steam-era freight cars would do. When you look at a car, each one should have a date printed on the model. Look for dates in the 1930's, 1940's and early 1950's, and it should be just fine to haul behind 1225. The only trick is to find a PM caboose to match your engine. The freight train between the two can be almost anything.
Paul A. Cutler III
One of the many appealing aspects of this hobby is that you are free to mix and match. My roster consists of RTR and kit-built cars. I've been buying mostly kits now, but if an RTR car catches my eye and the price is right, it will come home with me, too.
Nobody makes enough different road numbers of any given railroad to fully populate a layout. So, in all likelihood, you'll have to do some painting and decal work yourself. It's not that difficult, and the results are very satisfying.
Oh, and welcome aboard!
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The model kits that are available today are very easy to assemble. However, like many have said, it isn't an either/or question. Give both a try and I'm sure one side; or, both will make sense to you.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626 However, like many have said, it isn't an either/or question.
Exactly.
The thing about model railroading, is that this "big tent" covers a lot of specific interests.
If your main interest is model building (with a slant towards trains) then absolutely start with some basic kits and work your way into more detailed kits and craftsman models, and pretty soon you'll also be modifying, custom painting and even scratchbuilding items.
If your main interest is running trains with, and not so much interested in kit building, that's fine too.
If your interest is in representing a particular railroad/town/train/time period etc., then you'll probably end up doing a lot of both.
In my case, I have plenty of Ready-to-Run cars; if I can get them that way, and they're well done and accurate, I will. However I also have many kit-built cars that I've custom painted (both to get specifically what I want, and because I like it), moderately to extensively modified kits, or even fully scratchbuilt cars to get the accurate equipment to properly represent the railroad I'm modelling.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
No right or wrong answer. If you can afford the decent RTR cars from Walthers, Exactrail, Intermountain, Athearn, Genesis, Proto 2000 etc., by all means get them.
That said, if you are new, start out with Athearn blue box kits, Model Die Casting/Roundhouse, Walthers Redbox kits are all easy to build (most of those will be found at train shows as they are no longer produced. A couple of brands are still being produced in kit form: Accurail and Atlas (formerly Branchline kits).
If you build kits, be sure to get yourself some basic tools and parts:
- Kadee coupler height gauge
- Packets of Kadee red and gray fiber washers (to help adjust height if the couplers are too low), mount between the trucks and the body.
- NMRA Mark IV (or whatever) wheel gauge - to check wheels spacings
- small screw drivers and Xacto knives
- needle nose plyers
- packs of Kadee #5 or 148 whisker couplers to replace the plastic couplers that come with the kits; many of the older out of production kits still come with X2F horn hooks.
- Testers plastic cement..
If you decide to build kits from Intermountain or Proto 2000, a pair of Sprue nippers will be invaluable for cutting the tiny parts of the sprues easily without damaging.
Others can fill in what I left off.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
If your goal is an all Pere Marquette train then I would buy whatever cars you come across - PM is not a major road (like say PRR, ATSF, and some others). Model Train Stuff currently shows 5 freight car kits (HO), all Accurail. Other dealers may have more.
Good luck
Paul
Here's my 2 coppers worth.
I would buy RTR and hone my skills on track laying since bad track = derailments.Not fun for a new modeler or older modelers as far as that goes..
You can also hone your modeling skills on building and detailing structures,scenery techniques and other needed modeling skills.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hello All,
Welcome to the Hobby and the Forums!
Ahh...the classic dilemma!
For me it's more of a cost issue. The ready to run cars look great and are, for the most part, highly detailed- -some more than others. However these can get expensive.
As has been mentioned in another post on this thread, modeling experience also comes into play. I began building 1/35 scale military models in my pre-teens (early 1970's). Often times there wasn't a commercially available model of a prototypical weapon I wanted. So I kitbashed.
When I returned to model railroading I was considering the options for rolling stock. I was having coffee one morning and noticed the wooden stir sticks. I thought these would make a great model load for flatcars. Rather than pilfering my local coffee shop I ordered a box.
I also bought, on ebay, a lot of kitbashing parts for $10.00. This was a treasure trove of items.
My first attempt at scratch building was a flat car. I used part of a yardstick an ice cream stick and a pair of trucks. I mounted a pair of couplers and viola! Not the most prototypical but it worked. As a load I used a piece of dowel with ends cut from spent CO2 cartridges and a valve cap as a dome with a brake wheel on top- -a tanker car!
Kits are a great place to start. You will need to invest in some tools. I choose to invest in tools rather than spend that same money on RTR stock. Yes the tools are an expense but with them, and inexpensive materials, I can scratch build any piece of rolling stock I wish (or imagine).
Imagination is another skill you will find helpful in scratch building. There have been some crazy incarnations of rolling stock only limited to the needs and building facilities of prototypical railroads.
Don't let others on these forms try to convince you that it's not "realistic" or "prototypical." If John Allen (search the web) can use a Stegosaurs to act as a switcher or unload freight then, "all is fair in...'model railroading!'"
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
If you want to start with some easy kits, those Athearn and Model Die Casting ones mentioned earlier are good choices and can be found at trainshows for reasonable prices. You may not, however, find much in the way of Pere Marquette equipment.Another good source of easy-to-build kits is accurail . They have many cars applicable to a steam-era layout, and also offer some in Pere Marquette lettering, too. These include USRA hoppers, in both original and newer schemes, 41' AAR steel gondolas, 40' stockcars, both 40' and 50' doubledoor boxcars, USRA 40' doublesheathed boxcars, and 40' wood reefers, with more slated for future release. If you use the link, simply click on the car type shown and then select the ones you wish to view. I know of no other manufacturer offering such a wide selection of PM cars. They also offer decal numerals, which allow you to buy multiple similar cars and renumber them, and offer undecorated kits of all their cars and painted versions with only the dimensional data lettering done. Both of the latter types will allow you to letter the cars for whatever road you wish.
I don't model the Pere Marquette, but do have a couple of cars lettered for that road. This one is an Athearn kit, slightly modified with better details. Paint is Floquil with dry transfer lettering from C-D-S:
This one's from Train Miniature (now Walthers r-t-r, although you can find the TM ones at many train shows, usually at reasonable prices). This is a lower height car than the Athearn, and very common on many roads from the '20s to the '50s. Like the Athearn car, a few detail upgrades, and similar paint and lettering.
Wayne
I have not read every detail of every response, so I apologize if I have repeated someone.
How exact are you trying to be in representing PM rolling stock? Is it simply paint color and lettering, or do the small details need to be the right kind in the right place? (I've been in the hobby 40 years and cant really tell one 50 foot boxcar from another...and don't care to learn)
If its just paint and lettering, you can find any roadname cars at train shows. The only thing you need to really do is get the era of the car correct, then strip the paint, repaint and decal for the PM. Its not that difficult to do really.
- Douglas
ACY If I were in your shoes, I think I'd buy a few ready-to-run cars to get started, then add to the roster over time by buying a few simple kits. The kits can become more complex as your skills improve and your confidence and knowledge base expands. Tom
Ding! Winner.
Having something you can run is also a great incentive to get into kit building. Bowser kits are quite nice... interesting to build without being nightmarishly complicated.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Hi CBT
Welcome to the forums!!
I started with kits, mostly Athearn Blue Box and Accurail, but I did get into RTR where the car suited my needs and the price and quality were reasonable. I still shy away from the high end RTR because of price.
Kits can be a lot of fun, even the basic BB and Accurail stuff. If you haven't already, you should do some research on how to upgrade them to make them perform more reliably. Things like consistent weight, proper coupler height, proper wheel gauge etc will make the cars less prone to derailing and uncoupling when you don't want it. Most modellers seem to prefer to install metal wheel sets, but not everybody feels the need. A lot of modellers also replace plastic couplers with metal ones because the plastic couplers do have a tendancy to fail.
Two things I would suggest that you buy right off the bat are a coupler height gauge:
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page206.htm
and a pair of coupler trip pin pliers (although you can get away without them):
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page237.htm
You will also have a need for some height adjustment washers if you are buying the Athearn BB kits:
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page208.htm
For the Accurail kits, the older ones (not sure about newer stuff) use a simple pin to mount the trucks. Many people replace the pins with #2/56 x 5/16" screws.
That's just a start.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I use a mix of kits and rtr but tend to go rtr because I prefer to use my time working on scenery and buildings as kits or scratch built.
Joe Staten Island West
Hi, CBT! Welcome to the wonderful world of Model Railroading! Pere Marquette, Hmmm...? Interesting. Are you into freight (which is what 1225 hauled in real life) or passenger, a la The Polar Express movie? If the latter, you will have to buy the passenger cars and then strip the paint and repaint and letter them for the PM. Not a beginner's task, to be sure. I would first try to find either a good series of pictures in color of a PM caboose, then try to find a model that comes close and strip, repaint and re-letter. If you can find one ready to go in PM coloring and lettering, even better. Any road name would do for freight cars, as on most Class 1 railroads, the vast majority of cars being hauled were from other roads. I personally prefer kits, but a few RTR cars are not a bad thing. It gives you something to run while you're building kits.
The very first thing to do, though, is to lay some track, even if it's just an oval on a 4x8 piece of plywood. Do it carefully, making your curves smooth with no kinks, and your straight track straight. Then set your loco on the track (after hooking up your power pack), and run it around the loop a few times, to test it out.
Once you have a place to run, then proceed to get some cars to pull behind your loco, and presto!; you're a railroader!
Be sure to post some pictures of your layout (no matter how primitive) for us. And good luck!
---
Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
===================================
"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
My experience has been the best way to learn how to scratch build is to buy a craftsman kit. This way you see how a model freight car is actualy built. You can read articles about scratch building but it's better to do it your self. A good start would be Labelle kits, if you are interested in 1900s era. If you are doing steel freight cars it might be better to start out by kitbashing. MR has plenty of freight car kitbash projects. It takes an advanced modeler to build a steel freight from scratch.
CBT I was wondering if (for a new madelrailroader) I should stick with pre built cars? I can only go to train shows and find the rolling stock that I want, and buy them from companys that build the rolling stock and sell them. I am looking for pere marquette rolling stock for my 1225 pere marquette steam locomotive. Thanks for any feedback!
Lotta good stuff here. I should mention that the much beloved Athearn "blue box" kits went out of production four or five years ago. They are missed, I have a lot of them. Decent substitutes are Accurail and Bowser.
There is a lot to be said for getting something running as soon as possible. If this means buying some ready-to-run cars, so be it. You will have plenty of time to build stuff.
Be aware that kits vary in complexity (and cost) from "shake-the-box" Accurail and Bowser, up thru very detailed plastic kits from Intermoutain and Red Caboose, to resin kits from Funaro and Camarlengo, to "Craftsman" kits which are little more than a box of strip wood and an instruction sheet. In a few cases I have identical models of the same car, one "shake-the-box" and the other a top of the line kit. Viewed from three feet away (layout distance) the low end and high end cars look pretty much the same. And they run the same.
Someone mentioned fiber washers from Kadee for adjusting coupler height. #6 flat washers from the hardware store work well and cost less. Although Kadee couplers are top of the line, the clone couplers that come with a lot of cars are plenty good enough much of the time. I don't change out clones until they break.
By the way im more interested in freight tham opassenger cars.