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New HO Atlas Trainman GP3x drive quality issue

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  • Member since
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Posted by DRfan on Wednesday, March 7, 2018 4:48 PM

Just a heads up, the latest release of the trainman GP39-2 are just as bad; horrible motor and I had the LED headlight fail within minutes of running.  I am staying clear of their locomotives in the future!

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:28 AM

nw2
The reason for different motors is that Atlas and several other importers were forced to go to a new manufacturer when their previous manufacturer  Sanda kan was bought by bachmann. The company twirling their mustaches was bachmann Leaving  Atlas to reengineer their drives to accept different components and in some cases retooling molds that went missing 

Well, this is sort of true. It was Bachmann's parent company, Kader, that bought Sanda Kan. Being one of the larger toy companies in the world, they like to cut manufacturing costs for higher profit per sale. These new motors likely cost them about 1/4 what the other ones did.

They could at least get some of the higher end Mabuchi motors, like Helix Humper and NWSL use. They may have a 3-pole armature, but the low speed control, efficiency, torque, and low noise make them nearly as good as the Canon and Igarashi motors used by Ajin, BLI, and other high end brands.

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 23, 2015 9:53 PM

I noticed the much larger flywheels on the new Atlas motor. I wonder if that is an attempt to compensate for a weaker motor, or did they simply take advantage of the shorter motor making more space available for flywheels? Hmmm?! The plot thickens.

I don't envy the Atlas managers after all the trials they have been through recently with their track supply etc. Now it appears they might have another challenge to overcome.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

nw2
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Posted by nw2 on Monday, March 23, 2015 9:16 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway

 

 
BRAKIE

Reinhard,Its been reported on other forums that Atlas has changed motors and the new motor isn't nearly as good as the old motor.

It saddens me to think Atlas has lowered their drive standards.

 

 

 
Or maybe the old motor isn't available any more, or the price on the old motor has gone up to the point where they would have to raise the price of the engine too much.

It stinks that the new motor isn't as good, but I doubt the head executives at Atlas sat around twirling their mustachios and saying "Mwa ha ha, let's put an inferior motor in our engines!"
 
 

The reason for different motors is that Atlas and several other importers were forced to go to a new manufacturer when their previous manufacturer  Sanda kan was bought by bachmann. The company twirling their mustaches was bachmann Leaving  Atlas to reengineer their drives to accept different components and in some cases retooling molds that went missing 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, March 23, 2015 7:17 AM

rrinker

 Yeah but I've seen plenty of threads that said there were problems with the old black motors, too. Generally every time Atlas had a new release of one of the locos that previously had a Kato drive in it.

 Seen complaints about Kato drives even.

                             --Randy

 

 

Betcha not as much as the Genesis locomotive complaints..

Whenever a company changes this there will be complaints but,at today's prices maybe,just maybe a change of motor wasn't the best idea.

Atlas is well known for its attention to detail and having the best HO drive on the market. Kato drive is a good drive to but,they just dabble in HO.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


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Posted by Mark R. on Monday, March 23, 2015 7:14 AM

A similar thing happened with a couple recent releases from Bowser. They went to a different motor (due to new factory ?) that was very weak. In some cases, it would barely pull itself up a hill ! This has since been corrected with the next release of their SD40-2. Could be Atlas had to go through the same "learning curve" with the manufacturer as well ?

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 23, 2015 7:01 AM

 Yeah but I've seen plenty of threads that said there were problems with the old black motors, too. Generally every time Atlas had a new release of one of the locos that previously had a Kato drive in it.

 Seen complaints about Kato drives even.

                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, March 23, 2015 6:30 AM

Doughless
It seems like there is some Atlas bashing going on without any real explanation of what the motors actually are.

No bashing just concern over the new motor..This isn't this time I've read a topic on Atlas new motor having issues..

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by da_kraut on Sunday, March 22, 2015 10:28 PM

Hello,

I bought a pair of Canadian National DASH 8-40C in the Canadian National black, red and white made by Atlas.  The motors in them look different then what they are now putting into the trainman locomotives.  These motors do not have any yellow, but a silver.  These Dash 8's run very smooth and quiet, but have a lot less torque then the Kato motors.  From my observations the Kato motors have the most torque, followed by the old black Atlas motors, followed by the Intermountain motors and last are the new motors in the Dash 8's.

How did I test for this?  Found out what the minimum voltage is at which the Kato AC4400 will spin the wheels, then done the same test with the Intermountain and Atlas engines.

Hope it helps

Frank

"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, March 22, 2015 9:40 AM

Do we actually know that the motor problems Reinhard is having has to do with a change of motors at the corporate policy levels?

It seems like there is some Atlas bashing going on without any real explanation of what the motors actually are.

It could be that the changeover simply takes a bit of time for the quality control process of the new manufacturer to become efficient, and new batches will have problems solved or better capture of problems.

I have 2 new c424s with the new motors and they run as smooth and quiet as the old ones.  I didn't notice any noise when I ran them, so this thread prompted me up to check if they have the new motors and they do. 

- Douglas

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, March 22, 2015 4:14 AM

Darth Santa Fe
Do the Atlas Master diesels still have the better motors?

From what I been reading on other forums,it appears the newer release Masters has the same motor.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, March 21, 2015 10:22 PM

That motor actually looks even cheaper than Mabuchi's low end products! Likely 3-pole, with no skew to reduce cogging. My Athearn RTR F7 had a similar motor, and it made all the noise in the entire engine (poor quality bearings and a very cheap commutator). If Kader's going to make Atlas trains now, they could at least use the same 5-pole skewed armature motors as Bachmann's standard line (all they'd have to do is remove the big "5" from the side).

Do the Atlas Master diesels still have the better motors?

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Saturday, March 21, 2015 10:18 PM

Thr real question is, is it only the the Trainman drives that have changed or has the rest of Atlas' drives changed as well?

Jay 

C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1 

Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, March 21, 2015 9:42 PM

Bayfield Transfer Railway
It stinks that the new motor isn't as good, but I doubt the head executives at Atlas sat around twirling their mustachios and saying "Mwa ha ha, let's put an inferior motor in our engines!"

I doubt that too but,something changed the motor program as we can see in the photo.

Maybe their old partner Kato can supply the motors?

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, March 21, 2015 9:32 PM

BRAKIE

Reinhard,Its been reported on other forums that Atlas has changed motors and the new motor isn't nearly as good as the old motor.

It saddens me to think Atlas has lowered their drive standards.

 

 
Or maybe the old motor isn't available any more, or the price on the old motor has gone up to the point where they would have to raise the price of the engine too much.

It stinks that the new motor isn't as good, but I doubt the head executives at Atlas sat around twirling their mustachios and saying "Mwa ha ha, let's put an inferior motor in our engines!"
 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, March 21, 2015 7:52 PM

Reinhard,Its been reported on other forums that Atlas has changed motors and the new motor isn't nearly as good as the old motor.

It saddens me to think Atlas has lowered their drive standards.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, March 21, 2015 6:29 PM

So buy an A-Line repowering kit.  You can usually get them at train shows for a discount if you're patient.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by rdgk1se3019 on Saturday, March 21, 2015 4:15 PM

The motor on the top looks like the same motors that Walthers is using in their locomotives......maybe they had to do with the change.

Dennis Blank Jr.

CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad

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Posted by faraway on Saturday, March 21, 2015 4:08 PM

This is a direct comparision of the old (top) and new (bottom) motor used by Atlas in it's Trainman GP38-2.

I wonder why nobody complained. Looks like motors and smooth run are far less important then correct dimensions.

Reinhard

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Posted by faraway on Friday, March 20, 2015 4:23 AM

I wrote a friendly email to Atlas. May not help but they should know the customers notice the change.

Reinhard

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Posted by jfuhrtrain on Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:57 PM

Have you made sure to grease the ends of the drivelines that fit into the flywheels?  I can't tell from the picture for sure, but it appears that they are similar to the Kato/Genesis hex drive.  I jury-rigged some hex drive parts using 2-56 hex nuts which were a bit moisy until I gobbed on a bunch of grease.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, March 19, 2015 6:39 PM

Perhaps the motor situation will improve in future batches.

Yes, I also have 2 Athearn shells over older Trainman drives.  The shell and the frame are easy to modify to fit each other.

- Douglas

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Posted by faraway on Thursday, March 19, 2015 5:17 PM

The engines got lubed and do a break in now. They are still not perfect as I am used to. I did also notice the different motor. The new one looks somehow cheap. Might be they are the source of the new noise. 

I did not assume the new drive shaft is the problem. It is a part to identify the new drive easy.

The motor in an older Trainman GP38-2 and 39-2 has part #920100. The new one is #921100. The drive shaft and the drive shaft support in the flywheels is very different.

That is a risky way. Atlas sells the Trainman series as a world class drive at a reasoable price. It is now a reasonable drive at a reasonable price with a simple shell. Nothing exciting anymore.

I have lost my preferred drive. I used it a lot under Athearn RTR shells.Crying

Reinhard

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, March 19, 2015 5:06 PM

It looks like they went from a two piece plastic drive shaft to a one piece metal, as you said.  I can't believe that the one piece shaft would be noisier than a two piece.  The worm gear looks the same as always.  Yes, I would try some light oil and a break-in period.  You might try some tuner cleaner, 2-26 here in the states, around the motor area.

I'd think this situation is temporary, since Atlas, Bowser,a nd IM always produce (er...import) smooth, quiet locomotives.

I bought some newer locos, but looking at the website the newest run of gp38-2 is a 2014 vintage, past the date of my most recent purchase, so no help here.

Edit:  The motor looks different than what I'm used to seeing in an Atlas.

- Douglas

nw2
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Posted by nw2 on Thursday, March 19, 2015 4:36 PM

When Sanda kan the former manufacturer for atlas was bought by bachmann. It left many importers without a manufacturer. After all the smoke cleared  Atlas,  bowser and intermountain have the same manufacturer So the drives are very similar to each other.   There has have been issues with the motors in bowser and intermountain as reported on other forums. The motors look like mabuchi junk.  How that bodes for atlas I guess time will tell. Atlas stated that they have different specs. But I'm still skeptical.

 

 

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Posted by faraway on Thursday, March 19, 2015 4:20 PM

This is the drive of one of the new Trainman GP38-2. The worm gear etc. is totally dry. No lube no oil no nothing. Very unusual for Atlas. I will fix that first.

Reinhard

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, March 19, 2015 11:56 AM

I have not purchased a new trainman locomotive in a long time.  If Atlas has changed the drive to something that is not their typical high quality product, that is disappointing.

I would think that it would be more expensive to have a drive system that is separate and distinct from their normal drives, since the drive system isn't generally the most expensive portion of the locomotive. 

Are you certain the locomotives are brand new factory products and not a swap out or the results of previous meddling by someone else?  Maybe sharing a picture would be informative.

- Douglas

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New HO Atlas Trainman GP3x drive quality issue
Posted by faraway on Thursday, March 19, 2015 1:43 AM

I got a new Trainman CR GP38-2 some weeks ago. That engine did not have the perfect Atlas drive I am used to. It neeed some lubrication and a long breakin until it ran nice but not perfect. I noticed the drive shafts are made of metal/wire instead of the usual plastic.

Yesterday arrived two Trainman UP GP38-2. They are even more far away from perfection I am used to. They make the typical Athearn drive sound where imprefect manufactured parts fight against each other. The drive shafts are metal too. 

It looks to me as if Atlas made a new drive (looking very similar to the old one) without the old tight manucaturing tolerances resulting in a loss of quality.

Any similar observations with HO Trainman drives with metal drive shafts?

Reinhard

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