I don't know all of the particular's but a fellow in my Ops group (at another owner's layout) bought 4 MTH Little Joes (HO) and had every one of them repeatedly derail at every turnout (even #6s).
He called MTH, sent them in and got them back the same way. The fell over dead as a dog on their sides at the lst turnouts they encountered as before.
My Ops buddy called MTH back and asked what kind of test track they used and they replied, "We only have a loop". My friend couldn't believe it! He told them he expressly emphasized that the problen occured at turnouts!!!
He's taking them to a local repair LHS hoping for better luck.
I'm not putting down MTH or anything as I know things happen with all brands (even though they shouldn't) but has anyone else here owned a recent Little Joe and had the same issue? FOUR of them seemed pretty unusual. My buddy would be grateful if he could hear of a solution you may have found.
Thanks, Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
What brand of turnouts?
Sheldon
Sorry Sheldon I have no further details. I would strongly assume that they are Shinohara but don't know for sure. No other locos on his layout derail at turnouts at all though. Only the brand new Little Joes. He was SO angry and ranting about his experience with MTH in this instance that I didn't dare go near him for further details.
I do know that he brought all four engines to the "club" layout and they had the same problem there so it is the locomotives. The "club" layout uses mostly Shinohara/Walthers turnouts.
The Little Joe guy has (as far as I know) headed for the LHS hoping to find a repair guy who could spot what's going on. He is an experienced model railroader and tinkerer, but he just can't seem to find the problem. (things hitting, binding, whatever).
I was mostly wondering about all four engines (presumably from the same batch) exhibted this behavior. I wondered if other owners of these engines had similar experiences with the-if they purchased and received them in 2014.
I wouldn't mind having one someday.... but this experience and others at the "club" layout not being able to spot anything specific going on and MTH having only a loop and no turnouts on their test track (if that's really true) seems silly.
I'll email MTH to see if this is true or urban myth spreading, but judging from my aquaintance's reaction to their statement, it is definitely what they told him...anyway....
Jim
Sheldon, as usual, is on to something, although my question would have been, "What frog # turnout is this person using?"
Very early on in my short HO career, I was using the longer #5 EZ-Track turnouts. They should have been plenty 'long' for my HO Lionel Challenger 4-6-6-4. However, at one of them, the Challenger kept derailing going from the diversion route through to the points end, which happened to be my main line route. [I know, I know, most prototype railroads would have used the through route, but I didn't know better back then. Still, there was no apparent reason for the Challenger to derail when it's pilot got to the tips of the points.]
After repeated trials, I found that the turnout wasn't supported well midships, and it sagged when this particularly heavy locomotive crossed over the frog. The Lionel HO Challenger is very heavy, even for diecast locomotives, which it is. Once I saw why the rear engine's first set of drivers was lifting out of the gauge, I realized that turnouts need a solid footing. When I corrected that problem, the Challenger would race through there at track speed.
Long story short, and here's the tip: if the frog number is 5 or higher, there is a problem with planar geometry at play for your problem. It may be on the turnout, or on the last six inches of approach, but something is rocking your unit's frame and causing a flange to rise above the rail head. Your turnout is twisting or sagging, or one or all of your coupler pins is snagging. Something along those lines. If you are using a true #4, I would say that is the problem. You will have to modify your curves and turnouts.
I'll pass that on to him Crandell, but all four engines still derailed on a different layout with with #6s and #8s. So...it would seem to be with the engines themselves rather than any particular turnout(s).
I don't have any particular "skin in this game" as they're not my engines I am only asking if others have the same issues with the Little Joes. Whe I get a report from their owner, once he returns from the Seattle area repair shop, I'll report back here. It just seems bizzare that four locos are all exhibiting the same behaviors on two different layouts but none of his other engines are.
Sounds to me that the wheel gauge is too tight, causing the wheels to ride up the sides of the rail and flip it on it's side. You didn't mention if anyone had checked the gauge....that would have been the first thing I would have checked. There has to be some play between the inside rail and wheel, especially at the points...otherwise, they want to climb, rather than roll. I had heard on another site, MTH Loco's had wheel gauge issue's on some of their engine's.
Take Care!
Frank
zstripe Sounds to me that the wheel gauge is too tight, causing the wheels to ride up the sides of the rail and flip it on it's side. You didn't mention if anyone had checked the gauge....that would have been the first thing I would have checked. There has to be some play between the inside rail and wheel, especially at the points...otherwise, they want to climb, rather than roll. I had heard on another site, MTH Loco's had wheel gauge issue's on some of their engine's. Take Care! Frank
That's where I was going Frank. Different brands have different flangeways. and frog angle aside, different brands have different closure radii, which may be too sharp.
Yeah, my first reaction is "check the wheel gage of every wheelset on the engine, and check every turnout." Just because it's a manufactured turnout doesn't mean that every dimension is in the middle of the tolerance range.
Assume nothing, check everything.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
What loco are we talking about? Is this a little 0-4-0 Dockside, or a large electric locomotive. Both had nicknames of “Little Joe”?
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
My first thought would have been the wheel gage also. Crandal brings up a good point about support @ the turnout. Not actually watching the loco traverse the turnout and inspect the goings on can only speculate. Your friend was just so upset at the time, I doubt any further inspection was done to find the cause.
Four new engines showing the same issues would lend me to look at the trucks swing, pivoting gage and other tolerances as mentioned.
It is rather amazing that MTH doesn't have a more rigorous testing for such equipment. Like a GM/ Ford test track for new model vehicles that sure it starts and goes straight down the road and stops, good enough "ship it"
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
"What loco are we talking about?"
MTH Little Joe: http://mthtrains.com/news/448
I have a South Shore Little Joe and have found that it needs to be put on the track very carefully, and that a problem with railing/rerailing it might not be apparent until it goes through a turnout. I have Peco Code 83 #8s, and feared for a time that either this locomotive or my track had some flaw, but have since gotten the hang of putting this beast on the tracks.
Hi everyone, I just saw the guy who owns the four Little Joe's at the local big train show/swap meet this weekend. He was really appreciative that I took to asking on his behalf.
I did learn a few more details. He's using Model Power flex trak Code 100 with Peco turnouts. I have no idea if this is a bad combination somehow or not. He DID have the exact same experiences on the "club"'s Shinohara turnouts.
OF COURSE, when he took it to the tech on his track, on his home layout (no details know) they did not derail. The tech is going to investigate this week.
So...I guess there are no owners of these engines here to report whether or not they've had similar experiences with their Little Joes (MTH) from the last batch.
That's probably the only way we'd all know if this was a "common" problem or not...
That's all I've got. IF I get a report from the owner of these engines after the tech has them I'll post it here.
Capt. GrimekPeco turnouts
Code 100 Peco turnouts? Have him run a set of trucks through the turnout with the wheels tight against one stock rail, and then tight against the other stock rail. Many have reported a problem with too much clearance between the stock rail and the guard rail, allowing the wheel flanges to pick the frog point and cause a derailment.
Thanks for the note about the Peco Code 100 turnouts. I'll pass that on to him in the meanwhile.
I have the same problem with my MTH LJoe, running through Pecos #6 turnouts . Problem is worst on a curved turnout. Just for comparison, my Tenshodo GN Y1, ALCO GN W1 and Alco brass LJoe does not have this problem!
Alias, another issue is that the MTH has almost no adhesion and can barely pull 4or 5 cars over a 1% curved grade ...
Conclusion? The MTH is in the shelf just for display...