I know I am probably opening a can of worms, but I am going to ask anyway. As I approach my second anniversary in this hobby, I realize there is no way I could have learned all that I have learned without the information available via the Internet, most significantly access to all of the members of this forum. I know that I would not have been able to accomplish all that I have accomplished, at least not in the same short amount of time. Actually, I doubt I would have stayed in the hobby; I would have given up long ago in frustration.
So, here is the question to the old time hobbyists. How did you maintain your interest and develop your skills when information and assistance was not so readily available? What was your support structure, or did you even have one? I admire the dedication and devotion it must have taken.
Richard
The same way you acquire other skills, you asked questions, read and most importantly, you learned by doing.
Jim
Purchased and read many books and magazines. Reading and studing is integral in this hobby. Asking questions and doing what is learned. That is what I have done for over 30 years and I have quite a library of books that I refer to from time to time. The Forum is a wonderful tool but don't forget reading books. They sure have helped me over the years. Doug
Soo Line fan The same way you acquire other skills, you asked questions. . .
The same way you acquire other skills, you asked questions. . .
But of whom? Did you have mentors? How did you find those with skills?
When I started out, other than a couple of general books I found that were dated even by the standards of the day, I found old editions of MR very helpful. The local library had a somewhat incomplete collection stretching back a few years that I was able to check out. I soon caught up with digesting all that, then found the various how-to books published by Kalmbach (and to be truthful, Carstens, too) helpful. Then it was mostly learn by doing.
Since virtually everything was built, either kit or from scratch, there was a decided empahsis in virtually every article on the skills needed to create things. Now, it mostly knowing about what and where to buy stuff and what NOT to put on the layout because of some imginary worries about rivetcounters shaming you.
One thing's for sure. Complaining about much of anything was the furtherest thing from my mind. I was having tgoo much fun. It took the internet before I found out about THAT side of the hobby. Fortunately, the chronically complaint-oriented seem to be far more rare in real life than they appear to be in the virtual world.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Fifty plus years of reading Model Railroader and other related books and magazines, trying new things and learning while often failing the first time and often taking a break to think about alternatives. The most important thing was the enjoyment after something that I had been fooling with worked.
Joe
One employee at a lhs was very good to me. But the actual skills come from doing. Sometimes several attempts are needed. Success breeds success.
I started in the 1950s, way before computers and the Internet. My main and practically only source of information was Model Railroader magazine or some of the other, though not as readily available magazines, and trial and error construction. Atlas snap track was about the only type I could afford back then.
There was no hobby shop in my home town, so mail order had to suffice. Two mail order stores in New York City and New Jersey named America's Hobby Center and Standard Hobby Supply, where an order blank and payment had to be mailed in, then wait for weeks to either receive the order or a notice that the item(s) were not in stock, was the norm back then.
Practically everything I bought was in kit form, including Model DIe Casting locomotives and rolling stock from MDC, Athearn, or Bowser.
I think the most expensive piece of rolling stock I owned back then was a LaBelle Woodworking passenger car kit.
Soo Line fan One employee at a lhs was very good to me. But the actual skills come from doing. Sometimes several attempts are needed. Success breeds success.
This.
Doing. Building. Tearing out/starting over. Most of my successes in the hobby were preceeded by a less than optimal result....
But that also creates the fun...
Model Railroader was my most frequent source of info. I looked forward to getting the next issue and learn what's going on in the hobby. I also bought some extra books on the subject. Actually what I learned then outweighed anything I could find on the internet today. A lot of the stuff on the internet is questionable and not necessarily done by experts. I like to learn from the best. I also joined NMRA www.nmra.org , truly a great organization as it gets you into a network of people and experts as well as material so that you can see things done right in front of you so that you can ask questions and not just watch a video. They also set the standards and recommended practices. Train clubs of course helped a lot as did some shops.
I'm not saying the internet doesn't have value that would be crazy. I use it myself. But, I have seen some things said that just isn't correct on the internet. Thankfully with my prior training I can see the issues.
I also very much agree with those who have said basically--learn by doing. Kits and scratchbuilding were the order of the day. Building an elaborate passenger station could take months by the time you did all the research, found the correct materials and built it.
In my case, the hobby of model railroading can't be separated from the hobby of studying the history and practice of 12" = 1' 0" railroading. My dad and I would go down to the local railroad yard on summer evenings where we would chat with the working railroaders there. The B&O was known as a very friendly and welcoming railroad, and I learned a lot from those old timers. Magazines helped me to connect what I saw at the yards with the means of replicating it in model form. As I got older, I tried to make as many contacts as possible with more experienced railroaders and model railroaders. I bought a lot of books and magazines, most of which I still have. The learning process changed over time, but it never stopped. Now, over 50 years later, I'm one of the old timers.
How did that happen?
And how do I work this dang computer?
Tom
Like the others, I read anything I could find on model railroading, from libraries, books, and magazines. Hobby shops were still around then and the folks that worked there were modelers themselves. I also joined clubs when I could. I also have a collection of books purchased over the years. MR had their How-To books, even back then, and they were good. The primary source for information was my Model Railroader subscription. Occasionally I would buy Craftsman or other model railroad magazine off the rack. I also learned by doing. Building wood kits and scratch building from magazine articles in MR. Mistakes came often at first, but then you get better.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Reading any books and Magazines I could get at a BOOK STORE of all places!
Began subscribing to a LOT of magazines - MRR RMC - Model Railroading - Rail Model Journal.
Joined a Club - WE all learned together back then.
We surly didn't get on any FORUM CRYING that the prices were TOO HIGH - the HOBBY was Dying - Nobody likes me etc.
We were happy to get anything we could and if it didn't work (ran crappy) we reworked it until it did work.
But then I guess - this is the way things go - Crying has become the National Pastime - far more popular than Baseball it seems!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Richard, I have always been a lone wolf in the hobby because of where I live but that did not stop me. I read and did and failed and read again and succeded and tore out and read and up graded what I had done and was happy with the end result.
But! because of all that, is the reason that I have a new build after all those years. This is what I have been working on. It is basically the same size as before but upgraded with new skills, (mine), and new tech of today. For me, one of my favorite things is the building of the layout. Yes, I love to run trains but I also love to plan and build. As far as mentors, they exist in all the books, magazines and now days the forums that I read and use everyday. Doug
cmrproducts We surly didn't get on any FORUM CRYING that the prices were TOO HIGH - the HOBBY was Dying - Nobody likes me etc. We were happy to get anything we could and if it didn't work (ran crappy) we reworked it until it did work. But then I guess - this is the way things go - Crying has become the National Pastime - far more popular than Baseball it seems! BOB H - Clarion, PA
Bob, I very much agree!
Let me just say I am impressed. For what it is worth, I am a fifty-something so I remember life with out computers, when a research paper meant hours in the library. I honestly don't know if I would have lasted in the hobby.
All the internet did for me was make it easier to spend my money.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
cmrproductsWe surly didn't get on any FORUM CRYING that the prices were TOO HIGH - the HOBBY was Dying - Nobody likes me etc.
On of the more helpful things I have found with the web (remember, we had the internet back in 1970, but just try accessing it) is Google Satellite and Bing Bird's eye - and we didn't really have those until the 21st century (TerraServer, anyone?). Really helps you understand the layout of things, which in the old days you'd need to get lucky and get some published aerial photos of the site (now relegated to HIstoric Aerials).Still, we made do with at least 5 MR Hobby magzines in the 1980s/early 1990s, plus various books and the Walthers Catalog (and in some cases VHS and DVDs too). I certainly never felt unconnected or out of it in those days...
Books, more books, and magazines. Talking to peopel at the hobby shop when I could get there. Or at clubs when visiting. Learned most of building layouts from my Dad. The rest, by doing, and figuring it out.
Certain things I just read over and over until I got the concept - for example, we had a couple of 50's RMCs around, and in one of them,t he Layout doctor column was about what is wrong with the way most people draw plans. The submitted sample, I could almost see exactly what was wrong, but the text picked out a dozen or so points an explained what was going wrong. Some of it was obvious, like curves drawn so sharp it's doubtful a Birney car could go around them. Others were more subtle, like leaving room for yard leads and ladder lengths. I probably read that one article a dozen or more times until I understood all of it, all of the issues presented. This is long before I had heard of John Armstrong or any of his books, some of which I now have in multiple editions, but it was the start of hinking about planning layouts that woudl actually fit the available space AND allow the trains to run.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I joined the Pittsburgh Model Railroad Club and the NMRA and met people that way--it turned out that Don Cassler (Great Model Railroads Video 5) lived about two miles from me, which was a boon, to say the least. Also, the B&O Historical Society started about five years after I got into the hobby (and right about the time I decided that I wanted to model the B&O) and that was a useful thing.
RideOnRoad Soo Line fan The same way you acquire other skills, you asked questions. . . But of whom? Did you have mentors? How did you find those with skills?
I started my "career" as a model railroader over 50 years ago - decades before the invention of the Internet. Information was there, but not as easy to obtain as it is today. Magazines and books played a much bigger role, as did visits to local model railroad clubs. I still remember how eagerly I waited for the annual catalogues to arrive - just in time before Christmas. In the late 1960´s I was given a gift subscription of MR, which opened a whole new world of model railroading for me (and improved my English as a nice side effect). Lots of fond memories are attached to those days, although I am not saying they were better, just different.
I've been in the hobby nearing 45 years. My father got me started and I did learn a little from him. I picked up a little from more advanced friends and was involved at times with a local club when in my teens. But more than anything I learned from the pages of MR and RMC magazines. There was also a good bit of trial and error. The internet didn't play much of a part till about 3 or 4 years ago.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
Though I have had model trains for over 65 years, I was very slow to get going to more than a Christmas tree loop or just track on a piece of plywood and other things. Had a few old modeling magazines that had come with the original, used Lionel train, but I was a lousey reader, both speed and comprenhension. My folks divorced when I was 8 and there was never enough money for a subscription, though both parents would give me Christmas gifts related to the trains.
It wasn't until I was in my 50's and decided to get back into it that I became a regular reader, as a friend and I share subscriptions. Because I was interested I began to enjoy the reading. (Schools take note.) Speed and comprehension both picked up. Having the internet, specifically these forums, helped explain, clarify and expand what I was reading.
Though my layout building is at a slowdown point until I get a few things straightened out, I am still readiing and planning the new layout. My small layout still gives me pleasure, though its placement is one of the reasons I'm on hold. Probably should get rid of it and dive into the new, but running, even it's limited operations is fun.
The internet and reading keep me focused. Now if I could only kick myself in the seat of the pants to get over this bump, I'd start doing some of what I've been learning.
Without the internet I probably wouldn't be as far along in my enjoyment of the hobby. It's made things easier for me.
Have fun,
In 1971, I started with a couple of Model Railroaders from the news stand and a couple of books checked out of the library. This was followed up with some books from Kalmbach - Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong (still available) was the best. I soon subscribed to MR as well as RMC and joined the NMRA.
But even before I knew very much, I had a 4x8 sheet of plywood up on legs and was laying brass Atlas track. Built some Atlas buildings and was running my Tyco trains.
What a ball I had - mainly because there was no Internet to tell me I was doing it all wrong and my trains were junk. Sometimes I think all the knowledge on the Internet just gets in the way of having some fun with trains.
Enjoy
Paul
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Don't forget what you can still do even without the books, mag's, internet... Go look at the real world with your own eyes and take pictures. Another wonder of technology, the digital camera now makes it easy to take, record, and transfer to computer hundreds of your own pictures. And easily share them.
Just today, before seeing this thread, I researched some pictures I took on the Oregon coast for reference pictures of harbor docks. I found details in those pictures that I didn't realize were there. I could ask all day and not get an answer, but I already have it!
The camera picks up WAY more info than the naked eye since the eye is usually looking for one or two specific aspects, which the camera will capture, plus a hundred more you didn't think to look for until later. A lot of people did this with film.
Film cameras could do this well, but that was expensive, you wouldn't know if you got a good shot, and inconvenient for developing.. I wish I took at least a few more pictures than the way too little that I did anyway.
Back then, it helped to model the familiar, close to home so you had it all handy to look at. I still have a drawer of my own hand drawings with measurements of stuff I wanted to, and did build.
How did you maintain your interest and develop your skills when information and assistance was not so readily available? What was your support structure, or did you even have one?
From the beginning I have just loved railroading more than life itself. I seemed to sponge up everything like it is nothing (However, dont think for a moment I could recite the Pathagorean Theory).
When most young men were spending their time in arcades or other sport like events, I was hanging out at the local hobbyshop. When some were reading Shakespeare or listening to Zepplin, I was reading Kalmbach, Huddleston, Schuster, Armstrong, Hediger, etc. and listening to RPM 33 recordings of steam locos (NKP) back when they were in daily service.
While some were trying to figure out which college they wanted to attend I was trying to think of which Historical Society to join. Striking up friendships with the likes of Dixon, Million, Paton, Ashby, all the while asking the questions foremost on my mind. Sponging in the answers from all the people who knew the answers.
As the ace up my sleeve, at a very youngs age I was introduced to a gentleman who I must say, has to be one of the all time top know it alls in our genre. And I say that in a good way. He could recite just about anything you wanted to know about railroads. He turned out to be my greatest mentor in railroading. For ten years, once a week, every week, I was his grasshopper. We sat at his kitchen table for three or more hours at a time.... just dicussing trains. Any topic of trains.
Lastly, even though not one person in my family or close friends has a railroading bone in them, they have learned to be tolerent over the last 50 years. They realize me and trains are as one as the sun and sky. I truely am, eat, sleep, trains!
Information age or not, if your passionate about it, you will find a way!
Easy internet access has diluted the the depth gained by digging up your own research, or like the above post, working with the experienced.
On the other hand, we didn't have so much pulling us in so many directions timewise back then. Internet access is more efficient. That's ultimately good for the hobby.
Three ways: linquiry, receiving learning, and implementation of the learning.
I am much newer to the hobby than many posting their replies so far. However, I have quite a bit of history, some of it in previous hobbies. I began to read. Libraries were great. I joined clubs. The elders got up in front of us and pontificated, lectured, and demonstrated. The doors weren't locked behind us...we were free to come and go as we wished. We were free to take as much, or as little, as we wanted or felt we needed at any meeting.
Then, taking a deep breath, I would begin to teach myself by doing. Sometimes I got it right the first time, often I had many trials. My results always depended on my determination and on my standards at the time. If there was a disparity between the standard and what my skills would allow me to produce, I had to keep going.
As they kept harping at us when I was in my early military career, it's all about your attitude. A bad attitude most often has poor results. Or, at least, regrettable results.
Richard,
I don't know how old you are, but the world moved at a slower pace back in the day, and people did not require so much "instant gratification".
Reading - Model Railroader, and Railroad Model Craftsman came to the local hobby shop every month - you bought them and read them - I still have the first one I ever bought way back in 1968 - and since then have collected even older ones going back into the 1940's.
Clubs - I belonged to a really goood one, and learned a lot from the older modelers there.
I am 57 years old, I started truely "model railroading" at about age 10 or 11. I was lucky, my father was a "holiday model rairoader" - that is he setup a Christmas garden that was really a basic, but fair sized HO model railroad. Not a bunch of RTR stuff, but rather kit built stuff, 5 x 18 feet, lighted buildings, etc.
When we finially had a house with a basement, he setup the layout with plaster mountains, elevated tracks, etc, and soon "ownership" was handed over to me.
So I gre up with model trains - it also helped that a few years before that my Uncle had owned a hobby shop.
By age 14 I was working at the local hobby shop - by age 15 the owner had taught me to do most of the repairs.
As a young adult I managed a train department in another hobby shop.
Now 47 years later, I'm still reading, bulding, learning - and still don't need instant gratification.
Sheldon