Because our HO scale club layout is in the high Sonoran desert, a lot of our scenery is desert. Nothing is cheaper for scenery than actual desert dirt. After scooping up a coffee can full of dirt from around the clubhouse and running it through a flour sifter to get rid of the larger pieces, we mix it with casting plaster, water, glue, cinnamon brown acrylic paint, and a little dishwashing detergent, then spread it on with a small paint brush. Ground foam and clump foliage is added while everything is still wet, and a little 50/50 white glue mix is dribbled on.
Results can be seen at www.cwmrrc.com
Here are some ideas: 1. Avoid buying RTR. If so, get more milleage by weathering it, etc. 2. Make up some purchasing rules (e.g., treat yourself at birthday, Xmas, etc.) 3. Accept the fact that doing things yourself is a learning process - be patient and practice on low cost models. 4. Building scenery is generally cheaper than working on locos, etc 5. Take your time. Redo things you are not happy with. 6. Resist buying expensive tools that are unnecessary 7. Don't buy a new kit before finishing one. 8. Use cheaper paints for small things 9. Learn how to use ebay wisely 10. Buy less but quality locos. Sticking to a specific RR and era usually limits costs... Simon
snjroyHere are some ideas: ... 10. ... Sticking to a specific RR and era usually limits costs... Simon
And to ONE scale.
Also:
Go to smaller train shows run by a club - better prices on used stuff.
Scratchbuild your turnouts, that's where the real savings are in track.
Enjoy
Paul
1. I think being a disciplined purchaser, or rather, being a disciplined modeler, can save a tremendous amount of hobby money by eliminating the impulse purchases of things that are unrelated to your goals of era, location, prototype, and for that matter, gauge and scale. Impulse purchases can be fun to be sure but for the modeler on a budget, they can be devastating to that budget. This idea may not work for everyone, but when I go to a big train show I bring cash and limit my purchases to cash -- a sort of built-in discipline.
2. Learning to repair what is broken or not right is a skill that over time can save money, including repairing things that are purchased cheaply because they are broken or incomplete. Besides the sense of triumph when the repair is a success is fun in its own right.
3. Also saving the pieces from "disasters" can create a supply of parts and resources for future repairs or kitbashing (or trading with others). When I was a young modeler I'd throw away my modeling disasters because I hated being reminded of my failures. Then I'd later (often much later) regret not saving the parts and fragments. Now I hardly throw anything away which might in turn be a problem of a different sort I suppose.
4. Buying used stuff applies not just to the trains, but to books and tools. There are bargains to be had.
5. I second Steve Otte's remark about scratchbuilding. But I found it unfortunate when Walthers discontinued their "Modulars" series of parts, evidently due to lack of interest or perhaps due to not being able to convey how the "system" was meant to work.
6. Track and wiring and control are expensive. Scenery, by contrast, is actually rather cheap. Careful choice of track plan can lead to a layout which is not only more realistic looking but is cheaper, by having a high ratio of scenery to track. Most track plans I see posted here by beginners try to pack too much track into a given space.
7. Don't be afraid to be a seller at a swap meet.
Dave Nelson
1. Use natural materials for scenery. Commercial trees are very costly. But going out into a vacant lot and clipping some weeds (with permission) is free. Two issue ago there was a great article on making trees from goldenrod. I'm going to try it.
2. On a similar note, repurposing household objects for modeling can save you money. Gears from old CD drives make great model machinery.
3. Prioritize. Set realistic goals for layout completion and locomotive acquisition and decide which is most important to you.
4. Properly maintain your fleet. Your locomotives will last longer and run better.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
Scratch building can be a money saver, but it is easy to run up the price with those lovely detail parts and beautiful sheets of shingle roofing and siding. I did a nice model of a local passenger station, but by the time I was finished I had a surprising amount of money sunk into it.
Train shows have real deals in used rolling stock and structures. With some paint and detail work, they can be made into first rate models. Or into parts cars, yielding doors, brake equiipment, ends, roofs, anything.
I made my own roadbed out of white pine. All it takes is a bandsaw.
Craft store acrylic paint is way cheaper than any paint from a hobby shop. Rattle cans can give a decent paint job, maybe not quite as nice as air brush, but decent.
Scrap house wire makes a good bus. Go for 14 gauge, it's easier to work with than 12 gauge. Telephone cable is good for most things and turns up surplus for real cheap.
Old computer power supplies come in a nice metal enclosure, with a detachable line cord and fuses. Good for homebrew power projects.
A walk around layout doesn't really need electric switch machines. A simple overcenter spring will hold the points against the stock rails, and you can throw the turnout with a finger.
DCC is overkill on a smallish one man layout.
Homemade trees from weeds are cheap and decent looking.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
This is a good thread addressing the cost issues of the hobby.
Cost has 'always' been a problem for me...even after 43 years. I've had to be as resourceful as possible.
I frequented trains shows in the past. (no longer an option...none in this area)
I've stayed with DC and the use of old MRC packs or homebuilt power supplies.
Though I have bought some new ready to run beauties in the last few years, they were treats or gifts to myself. They can be counted on one hand.
In the past 3 months, buying from Ebay, I added to my Reading fleet, 16 locomotives total (Athearn BB, and old Atlas), and painted and decalled them all accurately for less than the retail price of a BLI Reading 4-8-4.
There are many other measures I've taken to enable me to stay in the hobby. But I don't want to tie up this thread.
Oh...one more thing. I take no shame in being a dumpster diver. LOL
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
I have old freight cars and locomotives that came with train sets. Although the track, power pack is gone and diesels no longer work. I did buy some old freight cars way before converting to knuckle couplers. Now these freight cars help me play with my trains and pretending to be in late 1950s thru the early 1970s.
It has been keeping me busy for the last few weeks.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
I run by my self so DC is for me but i buy only DCC ready locos because i might someday change over and i have so much to last my life time so buying has slowed down train shows is the best for me to buy found new flex code 100 for two dallors a stick and the LHS i go to lots of times puts things on the bargin shelf with a good discount and if you see something on the shelf that's been their a while he will reduced it also so MRing can be cheaper.
Russell
I buy damaged goods on ebay. For example, a non-running Proto E8 was had for 30 bucks and all it needed was a motor lead resoldered. I'm pretty good at fixing other stuff too.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I forgot to mention something since I don't have a train set layout I place 4 tracks on my dresser measuring 3'4". I place a few freight cars and a diesel or two making a consist pretending it's going through cities, desert, forest, and in between.
When my family goes out I'll be at home with the dog and than run into my room and take out my trains into living room and set up a small oval loop with little track that I have. My modern equipment is Amtrak, BNSF or Union Pacific depending on the mood but if I have enough equipment than I can run Conrail. All in DC power and I have no switch tracks to switch locomotives or cars.
Model Railroading is still fun for me no matter what happens with or without tracks. Imagination is a powerful tool to have when you have nothing.
"I pity that fool!" Mr. T
My Great Grandma Lawson used to tell my dad, when he complained about not having some of the toys or clothes that his peers had at school:
"Use what you have, and you'll never want for anything."
I have only dabbled, with a small "d", in scratching out something from available materials, but in the few instances where I have done that, it has left me intensely pleased and happy with my effort. As some of you will recall, I scratched a bumper/ramp at the end of one of my turntable radials. It looked quite realistic, helped by my previous scratching of my second trestle.
While it isn't technically scratch building, I did gather, clean, and then spread local beach sand for my ballast. I have done that three times now. It never looks unnatural, if not entirely realistic, but that is due to my own mediocre skills in grooming the ballast and in weathering it all. It's the right size and shape, and it's free.
I'll only deal, in closing, with spending. Do it carefully. Do it sparingly. Most of us must buy what we need in the hobby, but if we could limit that to unique or simply too complex items, we'd be surprised at how little we need to enjoy our hobby.
Steve, thanks for your initiative.
-Crandell
Pay attention to the prototype.
You might want to stockpile a dozen locomotives, but actual regionals can get by with four or six. They're trying to save a buck too, you know.
Pick a prototype and era. Plan accordingly - instead of a gaggle of "gotta have one of everything", stick to a few locos. Unless you're filling up a barn, you probably can;t run dozens of locos at once anyway, so buy a few, and buy rolling stock. In kits as much as possible. Generally half the price of RTR.
Learn how to swap digits in the car numbers, so you cna build a whole fleet from inexpensive kits, rather than have to resort to buying an expensive RTR version just to get a different number.
Learn patience. Yeah it might be cool to get it all TODAY, but this is a lifelong hobby. Aquire bit by bit. All those limited run locos and cars? Yeah, they might be sold out 2 days after release, but a few months later and they are ALL OVER eBay. Outside of some truly rare brass pieces, nothing is truly ever unobtainable.
And speaking of eBay, more patience. See a loco you really want? Fine, go for it - but control your impulse to bid more. It's not the first time nor the last time you will see one of them listed, and if you don;t win this one, you can always try the next one. Don't get caught in a bidding frenzy, and you can walk away with a $150 loco for $50 or less. Most of my fleet was built this way.
Think outside the box. Have a lot of things you need to paint flat black, like car weights? Don't spend $6+ for that tiny can of Testor's spray paint, spend $1.29 and get the BIG can of spray paint. It's plenty good for basic work like that. Doing lots of scenery? Don't get little squeeze bottles of Elmer's glue, you cna buy gallon jugs of it at the big box stores. Don't spend a fortune on 'scenic cement' - buy a gallon of Elmer's and some cheap 70% alcohol from the Dollar Store and mix up your own. Need some CA? Here's where it pays to NOT buy the biggest bottle, unless you have a huge project that will be continuously worked on. I've found a pack of a dozen tiny tubes at the big box stores, it costs slightly more but every one gets used up before it dries up, so I'm wasting a LOT less adhesive.
Save any interesting-looking household items. Containers, tubes, small boxes - you can probably make a myriad of items from otherwise junk. Buy something that comes protected with foam pieces? Perfect scenery forms, don't toss it with the box.
If I take stock of all my equipment and supplies, I have a not insifgnificant amount of money invested. However, I didn't spend it all over 2, or 5, or even 10 years. Dividing it out over time, my per year hobby expenses are rather modest. The 'fun' value? Priceless.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
In the scratchbuilding zone, here's a tip. You can find largish sheets of plastic (~2' feet square) at most hardware and home stores. They are called "For Sale " signs, but also come with other such information printed on them. The ones printed single side are best, because that saves a lots of scraping away at the painted to get a surface that glues well, if double sided.
Another source if you need even more plastic is to find a local plastics dealer. They have it in 4x8 sheets. Cutting usually costs you something, but you can also roll up a sheet and tie it to get it into a small car so you can get it home to cut at your leisure.
Since you need big buildings cheap to use up that styrene, remember that black foamcore board can be used to build structure cores cheaper than about anything else. It's light, strong, and easy to cut.
For electrical connections, use what probably keeps your house wiring safely connected, the humble, very cheap wire nut. I started a discussion and poll on this topic in another forum and found close to two-thirds of those answering used or planned to use them to wire their layouts, yet you see almost nothing about their use in the hobby press.
http://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/3032/wire-great-stuff-hidden-shame
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Don't buy expensive RTR freight cars. Build a few Accurail freight car kits as beginner projects and work your way up to highly detailed kits and eventually maybe build some craftsman kits from wood or resin. Building model kits is fun! It will also save money over buying expensive RTR kits.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NittanyLion Pay attention to the prototype. You might want to stockpile a dozen locomotives, but actual regionals can get by with four or six. They're trying to save a buck too, you know.
You don't even have to stick to a regional. Pick a small part of a big system. MEC's Rockland Branch around 1950, SP's Monterey Branch (up to 1971, also had passenger train), Santa Fe's San Jacinto Branch, Bangor & Aroostook's Searsport Branch (F3's, BL2's,GP7's into the early 80's). There's all kind of opportunity out there that doesn't require a huge loco roster or a collection of freight cars rivaling the UP.
Andre
My ?
1) Have a budget and stick to it. Mine is $75 a month. If I need something more expensive than that, I have to wait several months. Track your budget on a spreadsheet or log book.
2) Take a shopping list when you go to the LHS or especially a train show. Don't purchase anything not on your list. Make a wish list if you see something you want that isn't on your list.
3) Consider alternate sources for materials: medical supply stores for plaster cloth, returned cans of paint at home improvement stores, damaged foam panels (sometimes free for the asking).
4) Show your family and friends how to shop at your favorite e-tailer and give them a copy of your wish lost. Or ask for gift certificates. The good folks at M.B. Klein probably expect a large order from me in the first weeks of the new year.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Scratch building structures is a blast! I get the building that I want in a size that fits my space. If you look at the cost for any specific scratch built structure it is definately cheaper than similar kits. The caveat is that you have to avoid buying a whole bunch of scratch building supplies on spec. Otherwise you could spend a lot of money on stuff that sits in a drawer.
Kit bashing can also be economical. I wanted a small rural grocery store that would sit right at the backdrop. In fact I had to cut the building in half to get the footprint I wanted. That left me with the back half of the building which, with a little bashing, just happened to look like the front half of a small house. It fits perfectly beside the store.
I am also working on a fleet of cabooses. I started with BB el cheapos from eBay for which I had paid only a few bucks each. I am in the process of replacing all the molded on grabs with wire, adding a few grabs where Athearn had neglected to install them, installing power pickup for working marker lamps and interior lighting for the conductor's desk, and a scratch built keep alive circuit. I estimate that the cabooses will have cost me about $35.00 each when finished which is not exactly cheap, but it is half the price of the current Rapido offerings with similar features. Plus, they fit my era and road name perfectly.
I am also a strong believer in eBay as an economical source for specific items. By 'specific' I mean that I only buy what I need and I resist the urge to buy things that look good but are not on the purchase list. It took me a while before I realized how easy it was to blow a lot of money on things I didn't have a specific need for. By watching eBay patiently I have been able to aquire many things at very good prices, like warm white 3mm LEDs for $0.02 each. The trick is to not act like a kid in a candy shop with a ton of money in his/her pocket.
I have also limited the number of locomotives that I purchase. I will be running Canadian Pacific and the 15 or so diesels and five steamers that I have acquired will more than fill my needs. I have also learned to buy DC locomotives and add my own decoders and sound. The savings are reasonable but the main benefit is that I am getting a full featured decoder instead of something that has been economized to save a few bucks.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Since I live in a world where resouces and responsibilites are almost always in a delicate balance (or at least a exist in a steady tug of war), I have to find reasonable ways to enjoy the hobby of model railroading. Just for kicks, let me share, in no particular order a number of things that seem to help.
1) Do not be in a hurry, no matter how much your spouse or trusted advisors complain about "that mess in the...".If you feel the need to do a railroad very quickly-just hire a pro.
2) Feel free to repurpose almost anything. My dear bride recently muttered something about the spindle in the bathroom not having a functioning spring when she changed rolls. No local store had a replacement, but for $3.00 I could buy a new one that was 1/2" too short for the existing fixture. Separating the two halves of the new spindle gave me both a functioning spindle spring (complete with happy wife) and two external silos for a long established medium sized plastics plant on the layout.
3)Save and dry mosses and lchens from your next walk in the woods (an old food dehyrator works nicely to chase out the wild life). If your mate comes along you get both romance and free brush for your tairods woods.
4)Save twigs from your next Christmas tree investment- they can become layout sized trees and deadfall with very little effort. I split some of those twigs and stacked them by Woodrow Knott's (Woody to his friends) Custom Lumber and Saw Mill with a pile of sawdust.
5) Dark beach sand works nicely for gravel roads and parking lots.
6) Most import: this is a hobby-not rocket science, so it is more important to relax and enjoy what you have, and refrain from stressing out over what you do not have.
Cheers!
Don H.
snjroy Here are some ideas: 1. Avoid buying RTR. If so, get more milleage by weathering it, etc. 2. Make up some purchasing rules (e.g., treat yourself at birthday, Xmas, etc.) 3. Accept the fact that doing things yourself is a learning process - be patient and practice on low cost models. 4. Building scenery is generally cheaper than working on locos, etc 5. Take your time. Redo things you are not happy with. 6. Resist buying expensive tools that are unnecessary 7. Don't buy a new kit before finishing one. 8. Use cheaper paints for small things 9. Learn how to use ebay wisely 10. Buy less but quality locos. Sticking to a specific RR and era usually limits costs... Simon
Some more thoughts on the cost of involvement in our hobby.
I beleive that, "modeling on the cheap" is a flawed proposition if taken literally.
I do however think that we can, do & should spend only what we can afford to buy or in the worst possible situation - finance.
With modelrailroading appealing to folks in all demograhics there are many who can afford to be big spenders. Just think of some of those celebrities who we share our hobby with. But I think the vast proportion of us find funding our hobby a struggle.
But can we adjust to spending less or modeling on less money? Many have no choice, changing circumstances have seen to that. Ofher modelers do have a choice of shifting spending priorities to keep going as in the past.
Lets not forget that we are a society of consumers - that is our role in society with religious beliefs not with standing. While we understand the nessesity for restraint in a time of rising prices, we are still conditioned to want to spend with vigor. With no chance of any price reductions even after factoring in - prices relative to the past when some commentators would have us beleive that: "model railroading has never been cheaper" we are destined to accept this harsh reality of modern day consumer economics.
Dusty
Steven. Thanks for starting this thread. it might be a good idea to have a regular column in MR where readers can submit tips for keeping costs down.
We are modeling railroads which are companies. The real railroads do in fact operate with budgets. The Milwaukee Road slogan was "America's Resourceful Railroad". Model railroaders may wish to adopt that slogan.
Budgeting was already mentioned in this thread, but it is worth repeating. It helps to stay focussed on modeling a specific railroad in a specific location, and in a specific era. Avoiding purchases of items which do not fit in the layout will help adhering to the budget.
After the budget has been determined, we can find ways to get the most for our money. There are many good examples of that including scratch building.
Another resource is is our time of course. We must find ways to work efficiently if we are to accomplish our goals. Many of us will find kit-bashing takes less time than scratch building.
Of course, bargain hunting is a good habit to control how much we spend. We can save money purchasing used model railroad items. For example, used track is very cheap.
Shopping at train shows and on line does save money. (Unfortunately, hobby shop s may not be able to compete.)
Many model railroaders acquire trains in need of repair very cheaply, and then repair them. Some of the old train set rolling stock such as was made by Tyco can be upgraded to make decent models.
As has been mentioned, items not intended for model railroads can be adapted for use on our layouts. For instance, I have purchased strings of diode Christmas lights for 75% off retail in the post Christmas season. The diodes are 3 volts.
Thanks to those who posted here.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Some railroads of the past operated while in receivership for decades. I imagine that like any business financial management is vitaly important for railroads as well.
It has been suggested here the one way to introduce some cost savings is to scratch build. But how realistic is that for many of us who are crap at it? I can & often kitbash but scratch
building? Not really; that is a big step for me into the vast murky void of the unknown.
I'm pretty sure that folks who scratch build do so for reasons of accomplishment & the satisfaction of creating something that is in some way unique - not mass produced in other words. This preference is not a reaction to the economy delivering less in wages/salary, but something scratch builders like to do & enjoy the process of creativity & have the talent that other modelers - like me, don't possess.
Dusty:
I understand your position re scratch building. It is not a skill that comes easily to everyone. However, I might challenge you to an experiment to see if you are really as bad at it as you imply.
Do you have a structure which you would like to have on your railroad that is not available as either a kit or RTR? If so, perhaps your could provide us with a detailed description and photographs if you have them (photographs would be ideal). Those of us who are experienced at scratch building would likely be able to provide you with a wealth of ideas on how to go about constructing your project. Of course it would be advisable to start with something fairly simple, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.
This could turn into a very interesting and educational thread for those who would like to scratch build but haven't yet taken the plunge.
This summer I screened, sifted, and washed gravel in my own driveway and came up with lots of nice scale gravel. A trip to the beach renedered more, and some variety in color.
Ever check out a craft store? Look through the dry floral supplies for tree making supplies. (Caspia is a dried plant that is the basis of very realistic pine tree branches)
Also their jewelry making stuff can render some interesting items, especially chain.
As mentioned already, real dirt looks like real dirt. Be aware that there are many colors of earth, yellows, reds light to dark brown. Collect it up and have a supply.
Ebay, ah... Patience pays off. I've been looking to expand my tanker fleet. Finally found a seller with decent starting prices. But what made it pay off was that he combines shipping. Once I bagged the first item, full shipping cost, the rest were 50 cents per. 6 cars for about 24 bucks, including shipping. 3 BB athearns, 2 Tycos, and a Bachmann. They'll get upgraded, some painted, but still way cheaper than RTR these days.
If you don't have a fine cutting tablesaw, do you have a friend who does? Cut your own scale lumber for those scratchbuilding projects. OK maybe not HO 2x4s, but the larger stuff, it still saves money.
Someone mentioned hand laid turnouts? Two big plusses here. Initial cost, and...Once you get the hang of that, you can custom lay these in curves, or anywhere you want, and in the # ratios you want. That expands the usable real estate on your layout, cuz it increases the accessability to more areas dramatically. You're no longer limited by having to fit a pre fab switch only where it will fit. Oh, and you are not subject to their availability. That's 3. Inexpensive slide switches built into the throws supplies power to the frogs, and tension to the rail point position.
Caveat: This is going to require a few quality tools, but nothing exotic. Nippers, files, NMRA gauge, soldering tools, stuff you ought to have anyway.
Cheap is a relative term. Some stuff just costs what it's going to. This small precision machinery we're using can't be made dollar store cheap, but as many have already shown, nice layouts don't have to be money spending contests. Dan
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Great Tips....
I second the idea of sticking to the 3 foot rule. Personally, I am very satisfied with weathering a much cheaper car that has molding details, so that the highlights of the weathering bring out ladders, grabs, etc.. Also, these cars are moving, so it is nearly impossible to see all the detail that the high end cars offer.
I too am always on the lookout for little items that can represent something else. Recently I made a very real looking turbine out of two toothpaste caps glued together. I believe developing an eye for these things adds to the satisfaction of the hobby.
Thanks for the post
See my models by clicking on the link below
Blue Tombstone Gallery
For me saving bucks comes easy since I buy only the number of freight cars I need for the three eras I model and since a lot of those cars overlap eras I need to purchase few new RTR cars.
I only build small switching layouts that costs less then $300.00 to build including the needed Peco switches and Micro Engineering track.
I buy new cars and locomotives at the best street prices I can find and I hit the use market and look for use cars and locomotives at train shows.
If I don't need it I don't buy it..I only have the needed tools to build a kit,lay track and maintain my cars and locomotives.I found for me the other modeling tools is not needed since I would never use them.I only own 14 railroad books and Lance Mindheims 4 books on modeling and building industrial switching layouts.I buy my metal wheels and KD 148 couplers by bulk packages.
During open houses at the club and when I'm asked about the cost of the hobby I have a standard answer that all can understand..
The cost of the hobby depends on how much you wish to spend.You could buy 2-3 engines,some cars and join one of the local clubs or you can build a simple 4x8' home layout or if you wish you can build a layout that fills your basement.
About DCC.
While DCC and DCC/Sound is not truly needed to enjoy the hobby its one of those niceties of the hobby.
If solo operation is your desire then think small..A MRC Tech 6 with hand held throttle or a NEC Power Cab is all the DCC you need on most small to medium size home layouts.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Steven Otte OK, we all know model railroading can be an expensive hobby. There are probably several hundred threads on this topic buried in the archives of this very Forum proving it. So instead of complaining, let's try to turn our focus to the useful parts of those threads. What are your ideas and suggestions for enjoying model railroading inexpensively? One of my favorites is scratchbuilding. Rather than purchasing a kit everyone else already has on their layouts, I'd rather start with a few inexpensive packs of Evergreen and Plastruct styrene and some Tichy or Campbell detail castings. Usually I'm just trying to make an interesting looking structure, though I have duplicated prototype structures before. Since coming to MR I've been building a lot more in wood, as well. Scratchbuilding is not much harder than building from a kit, but it's a lot cheaper. And the result is something I can be proud of as the product of my own imagination and labor. Now, let's hear your constructive tips for keeping the cost of the hobby down.
OK, we all know model railroading can be an expensive hobby. There are probably several hundred threads on this topic buried in the archives of this very Forum proving it. So instead of complaining, let's try to turn our focus to the useful parts of those threads.
What are your ideas and suggestions for enjoying model railroading inexpensively?
One of my favorites is scratchbuilding. Rather than purchasing a kit everyone else already has on their layouts, I'd rather start with a few inexpensive packs of Evergreen and Plastruct styrene and some Tichy or Campbell detail castings. Usually I'm just trying to make an interesting looking structure, though I have duplicated prototype structures before. Since coming to MR I've been building a lot more in wood, as well. Scratchbuilding is not much harder than building from a kit, but it's a lot cheaper. And the result is something I can be proud of as the product of my own imagination and labor.
Now, let's hear your constructive tips for keeping the cost of the hobby down.
Those of us who like to scratch build, kit build and kit-bash our freight and passenger equipment need the magazines help in promoting this activity.
In fact, one of the most important articles ever appearing in Model Railroader for me, was one on kit-bashing a Northern Pacific W-3 Mikado from a regular old, standard Riverossi Mikado. This article and the procedure the writer used to walk me through the process of bashing this locomotive, opened my eyes to what we are capable of doing in this hobby! I now feel these types of articles are too few and too far between!
Also, how about having one of the people who are wonders at working in brass do another article on building a brass steamer like the one done on an NYC ten wheeler done a decade; or, so ago.
My secret ingredient is coffee stirrers. I've never bought one. I just pocket a few when I find them. Some make pipe loads. Some get put through 2 inches of pink foam after I've cleared the way with an awl to allow me to easily push wires through. The wooden ones become plank fences, or get used to stir Envirotex.
I make my own decals on my computer printer. I print a row of them, and then use my wife's flatbed paper cutter to trim off that row and leave a nice, clean, square edge on the paper so I can re-use it later. You don't have to use a full 8 1/2 x 11 sheet in a printer, just enough so the printer can pull it in. You can even tape that last couple of inches of decal paper to a sheet of regular paper to let your printer get some traction.
If you're going to a craft store, go online first and print a coupon for A.C. Moore or Michaels. They usually have one for 40%, sometimes 50%, off of any one item. That's a lot of savings when you buy a package of Envirotex. Those two stores will take each other's coupons, too.
I can't find anything wrong with most of the dental picks I've got. But, my dentist decided they weren't good enough to be used anymore, so she gave me a bunch just for the asking. In return, I populate her magazine rack in the waiting room with Walthers flyers.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Want to start scratchbuilding but aren't sure you cna do it? The latest episode (I think) of Cody's Workshop has exactly the ticket to get started. It's the one on building a modern crossbuck. He uses a commercial crossbuck, and commercial stop sign, but they have horrible looking plastic posts, so he makes his own. And the one before that, with the guardrails - again, the guardrail part is a commercial piece, but he makes his own wooden posts. If you can at least cut a small piece of wood to a fairly consistent length, you can EASILY do either of these projects. Once you are comfortable cutting and fitting little pieces of wood together, you can advance tot he next step and make something completely from scratch instead of mixing in the commercial parts. And there's nothing wrong with mixing in commercial parts - big deal, so it isn't 100% scratchbuilt because you used some plastic and door casting. The only person you need to please is yourself.
Those projects of Cody's are super simple and are a good intro to scratchbuilding. And no, you do NOT need a specialty tool like the Chopper to do it. It just takes a little longer to measure each one instead of having the tool set up to automatically do it. And this is where the patience comes in again. So what if it takes you 3 evenings to do what the experts claim is a one evening project? Relax and have fun. If it gets frustrating, put it aside and work on something else. Much like the first time I attemped one of the P2K tank car kits (yes, they once made kits too! And this wasn't one of the simplified Timesaver versions) - I was getting extremely frustrated over the tiny and very fragile grab irons and stirrups. So I just put it all back in the box and back on the shelf and went off and worked on other things. A month or so later I went back to the tank car and figured it out. By the second one I had figured out some tricks to make it even easier. Now, they are no big deal. Patience.
NP2626 Steven, can you suggest to your editor that the magazine run a series of articles on just this topic and also that they bring back drawings and information articles such as they did on the Erie milk and express car in this last months (November 2014) Model Railroader. Although I have no interest in building this particular car, I do find these articles interesting and in fact, this was the first article I read in this issue.
Our ability to run articles like that depend on the availability of talented draftsmen who have the interest in researching and making such drawings and submitting them to us. It's a dying talent and a rare interest. We'd love to run more prototype drawings, but in this era of ready-to-run everything, those submissions are few and far between.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
I said in a few different posts that scratch building can save a lot of money and it can. I mean I even use cardboard from the back of my writing pads for some walls. And those structures have been around for decades.
I have also said that Model Railroader Magazine doesn't do nearly as good a job as it used to in the how to articles. They're not nearly as complete as they were many years ago. The quick read step by step is not really useful unless you've already got skills. And they do their best to use commercial products, it's kind of like product placement in the movies. And I get that it might be a money winner for the mag, but I'm not sure. The build list at the end is helpful for the vendors, etc. But, as a modeler I feel that it doesn't serve me well when I spend good money on the mag. So, as an idea might I suggest the magazine go back to how it used to do articles with much greater detail--you have seen here how many don't know how to scratch build. I didn't, but those articles form the 70s and 80s helped me develop those skills. And please use inexpensive materials or at least maybe give us substitution possibilities. Thanks.
Richard
(9) I don’t swap out plastic wheels for metal ones, unless they are out of round or completely unserviceable. (Three crook wheels out of about 200 freight cars isn't too bad). (10) I only change to Kadee couplers when the others fail.
Me too. The plastic wheels will look better after you brush paint the wheel faces oily black or grimey black for friction bearing trucks, and a mud color for roller bearing trucks. My track stays clean, I don't bother with track cleaning cars at all. All I need is a wipedown with Googone on a rag once or twice a year.
I also run clone couplers until they break. I don't swap them out for Kadee's until they fail in service. The clones with metal coil springs on the knuckles are pretty good.
I think following Allen McClelland's "good enough" philosophy can save you a bit of money too. McClelland himself even said if a structure is only visible from the front, "then why do you want to finish the back of it?" No point in wasting money on details nobody is going to see.
Hi!
Having played with trains since the mid '50s - and having been strapped for "MR money" during much of that time, I've had to do a lot of improvising and "creativity" to get the various layouts in place. In example:
- Benchwork, especially plywood, was retrieved from construction sites.
- For HO work (started in 1960), Athearn kits and locos (also Rivorossi) were the best deals in town. Relatively expensive RTR cars were out of the question.
- Trackage was and is still Atlas. I realize new is hard to get these days, but used is available on Ebay (as are Athearn cars, etc., etc).
- MRC made the best powerpacks then (and now) and of course DC was the way to go. I currently run DCC, having well over $2k invested in it, and its great. BUT, DC is a heck of a lot cheaper and will teach the basics of wiring much easier than jumping into the DCC pool.
- Scenery was died sawdust, dried coffee grounds (still use them), and I bought plaster of paris from the local hardware store for 5 cents a pound. I mixed paint with the plaster, and built all the scenery I needed.
- I confess I was a pretty good scavenger, and was always on the lookout for scrap paint, wood, wire, etc., etc.
- Structures were basically Revell and AHM, and we have all seen them. But with paint and some creativity, one can come up with some pretty nice pieces.
My point is, you don't need to jump into the hobby and have everything new, the best, and right now. A really good layout can be built "on the cheap" if one takes their time and does it in stages.
Of course that rubs a lot of newbies the wrong way. Instant gratification is the order of the day, and while that sounds nice, in my opinion it takes a lot away from a lifetime of model train enjoyment.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
The inherent pleasure which comes from fixing what is broken or inoperable is one of the prime motivators behind my own kitbashing ans scratchbuilding efforts.
I print my own decals; I stalk the vendor tables at the local quarterly train shows; I look at things from other sources- Michael's Crafts, Dollar Stores, junked electronics, etc- to find potential model railroading application.
When finished, having saved money as well, the result is an impetus to continue on to other projects.
The process of saving money is almost co-equal to the DIY process!
Cedarwoodron
Ok, this can be a cheap hobby. Start with the benchwork, it can be scrap wood but 1x4's are cheap in the first place. Top it with foam, the beaded type is fine and can be had for free alot of the time. If you do dead rail you can use the track nobody else wants, in fact many times they will give it to you including switches. Great engines can be had on e-bay for under $50 anytime ussualy. The stuff need to convert it is cheap but it dose require soldering skills. Scrath building rolling stock can be done but Tichy kits are always available on e-bay for arround $10 in kit form (in fact just bought 7 cement hoppers for $36 and free shipping coming out to just a little over $5 a car). You can do scenery for cheap too.
My comments echo much of what has been written.
a. Scratchbuilding, esp structures. I have an E L Moore lumber yard on my workbench right now using balsa, scribed wood and paper. Will probably be somewhere around $5 when finished.
b. Don't get sucked into the bigger is better, more locomotives, more trains, more switches is better philosophy. Besides the first cost, all those items require maintenance. Instead, if you have space, spread out a bit.
c. Enjoy the journey rather than the destination. Scratchbuilding and kit building can make even a small layout take years. But so what? Have fun with the building. If you need to get something running, even a short switching area or the much maligned loop will have something going on while the building progresses.
I believe with judicious purchases and scratch/kit building, you can build a complete railroad and not spend more than $1000 over a several year period, with the pace driven only by how fast you want to finish.
Hi once again! May I add two more points.............
- "Everyone" wants the biggest layout possible - at first anyhow. The thing is, a bigger layout costs more in money, time, and frustration. As previously mentioned, there is this thing called "maintenance", and it is directly proportional to the size of the layout.........
- "Everyone" seems to want all the locos and rolling stock they can get. During the early 2000s, I was Ebay's best customer, and built up a 700 car and 75 powered unit inventory. It finally hit me....... most would never be used! So 5 years ago I began selling off (again Ebay), and am down to an almost manageable 250 car and 30 power unit inventory. That's still way too much for an 11x15 two level layout, and at some point more will be sold off.
By the way, I have found the best way to build a layout is to plan, plan, plan, and build the best you can possibly do (i.e. carpentry, tracklaying, wiring), and all the while, test, test, test.................
mobilman44By the way, I have found the best way to build a layout is to plan, plan, plan,
Another thing to remember while in the planing stage is less can be best in many ways from construction costs (includes track, buildings,scenery etc) to maintenance.
The cold hard fact is many of us plan full speed ahead never thinking of the cost of building that Godzilla size layout that fills the basement until our dream layout is crushed by the costs and little time to build that layout and thus many lose interest and rip out the skeleton of the layout..That equals lost time and money that could have went toward a attainable smaller layout.
About 11 years ago now, I entered the HO scale side of the hobby on a whim.
I had been trying to get my old American Flyer train up and running after some 45 years in storage, but I was frustrated in my attempts to restore it to good running order.
So, I visited my local hobby shop, purchased a Bachmann HO scale steam engine and a Life Like HO scale diesel switcher to emulate the two locos that I owned in S scale. I bought a DC power pack and some sectional track, went home and set it all up on a 4 x 8 plywood sheet on my basement floor. That was my start. The total cost was around $300. Of course, over the ensuing years, I went nuts and overbuilt, overbought, and overeverything. But, my start up cost was nominal.
Today, you can buy a 4 x 8 plywood sheet at Lowes for around $18. Add a Bachmann train set from MB Klein, loco, rolling stock, track, and power pack for $70. Add a Bachmann set of additional track to fill a 4 x 8 sheet for $140. Total cost is under $250.
You can also buy all of this stuff used, and so your start up costs may even be under $100.
So, you really can enter the hobby on the cheap.
Rich
Alton Junction
Steven Otte NP2626 Steven, can you suggest to your editor that the magazine run a series of articles on just this topic and also that they bring back drawings and information articles such as they did on the Erie milk and express car in this last months (November 2014) Model Railroader. Although I have no interest in building this particular car, I do find these articles interesting and in fact, this was the first article I read in this issue. Our ability to run articles like that depend on the availability of talented draftsmen who have the interest in researching and making such drawings and submitting them to us. It's a dying talent and a rare interest. We'd love to run more prototype drawings, but in this era of ready-to-run everything, those submissions are few and far between.
With CAD being the method used for drafting today, why would there be less people interested in doing this type of work. The process of coming up with drawings must be far less time consuming than it was in the past. However, I have no doubt you are correct, Steven. Many of the Historical Associations have data sheets on the equipment used on their chosen line, so information is available. I can tell you, Steven, that if I had CAD abilities, this would be something I would be doing, it would be a hobby within a hobby and something as a retiree I could make a little money doing! Maybe the next generation, who grew up with CAD, will step up to the “Plate”?
Today’s modelers universally seem to think that to be in this hobby a person needs an air brush and its’ related supports equipment. I have been involved with Model railroading, off and on for 50 plus years, plastic models for 55 plus years and flying model airplanes for 50 years and have never felt the need for an airbrush. Don’t get me wrong, I consider an air brush as a nice accessory to have, but no more necessary to this hobby than a band saw, drill press; or, other types of power tools. As a former Tool & Die maker, I am a tool guy; so, I know tools and their value! When I felt It absolutely necessary to spray paint (few and far between) I have found paint cans to suffice. I never felt the expense of a compressor, airbrush, spray booth and ventilation system to be worth the cost. I brush paint almost all of my model railroad projects with great results. So, in my opinion spray equipment has been unnecessary and I have done without all those years!
BRAKIE mobilman44 By the way, I have found the best way to build a layout is to plan, plan, plan, Another thing to remember while in the planing stage is less can be best in many ways from construction costs (includes track, buildings,scenery etc) to maintenance. The cold hard fact is many of us plan full speed ahead never thinking of the cost of building that Godzilla size layout that fills the basement until our dream layout is crushed by the costs and little time to build that layout and thus many lose interest and rip out the skeleton of the layout..That equals lost time and money that could have went toward a attainable smaller layout.
mobilman44 By the way, I have found the best way to build a layout is to plan, plan, plan,
Larry & Others
While some consider my layout large - I have had the chance to run on larger ones.
When I started planning my current LARGE Layout - I did so with the idea of only building a small part of the layout as I finished the basement.
We had just moved into this new house and I had to build the Shop and finish the Garage and I was finally able to start on the Layout in 2001 ( we moved in 1999)
But I only built down one wall and two short peninsulas.
I got the track laid and was able to begin Operations soon after - only had two towns but the Operations got us going and we had 4 regulars every 2 weeks.
As I kept drywalling the basement - I could add a little more benchwork!
It wasn't that expensive to build all this - doing it over time is the key and what EVERYONE that stated they can't afford it - should be doing things as one CAN afford it.
I was working then - Glad I started 10 years before I retired - as I wouldn't want to begin again.
It isn't that I am not able physically to do it - it is just that I would have to budget things out so much further that the time frame would really slow down any progress and enthusiasm!
Don't wait until you retire - most time you just won't be able to budget for the high initial cost of all of the track and turnouts.
Begin stockpiling NOW!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproductsIt wasn't that expensive to build all this - doing it over time is the key and what EVERYONE that stated they can't afford it - should be doing things as one CAN afford it.
Bob,Here's two rubs to your thought even though its a excellent solution for building said Godzilla size basement empire.
How many will have the will power for such construction in today's I what it yesterday mentality? Not to many would be my guess.
Since that could take years to build one's enthusiasm may wane and interest may change and end the long term project.
In today's world what would be a cost efficient layout project that could be up and running in two -three months?
Speaking from my own experience collecting for that some day layout can lead to that age old question: Why buy any more models since I'm not using the $7500 worth of stuff I already have?
So,IMHO it would be best to build a small layout or at least join a good club that has regular operations.
Effectively I did begin by building a small Layout! ;-)
While Operations (no matter how small it was) -
was the important thing to me and I achieved that in minimial time!
I was up and running in less that 3 months and was adding scenery and buildings right along.
It was just that - I had the room and said to myself - if I JUST added a little more - I would be happy! ;-)
And then OH! - Just another town - and REALLY - I will be Happy this time - I promise! Really ! ;-)
And then another - and then another and until I ran out of space!
Then I added a second level - then a third -
And then I built a room on the back of the house!
Then I cut a hole through the cement block wall and went into my Basement Office!
But - as you stated the current population is - I want it NOW !
So they can just NOT have their own layout and come every 2 weeks and run on mine!
And they DO! ;-)
cmrproducts Larry Effectively I did begin by building a small Layout! ;-) While Operations (no matter how small it was) - was the important thing to me and I achieved that in minimial time! I was up and running in less that 3 months and was adding scenery and buildings right along. It was just that - I had the room and said to myself - if I JUST added a little more - I would be happy! ;-) And then OH! - Just another town - and REALLY - I will be Happy this time - I promise! Really ! ;-) And then another - and then another and until I ran out of space! Then I added a second level - then a third - And then I built a room on the back of the house! Then I cut a hole through the cement block wall and went into my Basement Office! But - as you stated the current population is - I want it NOW ! So they can just NOT have their own layout and come every 2 weeks and run on mine! And they DO! ;-) BOB H - Clarion, PA
So close and yet so far, Bob. You're on to something but haven't quite reached that flash of insight. The ultimate in cheap model railroading, a little something I call the OP's method. It's not about operations, really, although that's not ruled out.
OP = other people.
You run Other People's trains on Other People's layouts paid for with Other People's funds. It's a concept so simple that I'm surprised no one has thought of it before. It's a bold concept, an out of the box concept and a concept whose time is long since overdue in model railroading's advancement.
I've been part of an operating crew for the last 5 years. I have no layout of my own, although I've been planning one. Now I don't have to. Better yet, I can sell off all my stuff and still participate (including helping the layout owner build his new and improved layout).
I'm a freaking genius even if it has taken me 5 years to come up with the greatest concept since 2 rail DC. Years from now, cash strapped model railroaders will be singing my praises! My name will be right up there with hobby greats from the past whose tireless efforts did so much to advance the hobby.
OP's. Its time has come. Let's go boldly into the future secure in the knowledge that when it comes to the hobby, someone else will be footing the bill. Remember, folks, you heard it here first.
~I see lots of mention of scratch building.
~Some of us {me included} are NOT so good at scratch building...unless given some plans to help follow. I have HO and N scale now,with NO ROOM for O in any way shape or form, and My HO "scratch attemps" are more like humongus buildings built in Roman/Greek time and scale. O scale sized disproportionate buildings next to an HO train or car doesn't cut it.
~Some will say "its easy to scratch build to scale"..tell that to my scale ruler....
~Steven, Can MR hire a guy just to do design/drawings of ficticious or submitted buildings on a part time freelanced level? Surely 12 structures a year, laid out in HO and/or N scale can't be that hard to produce for a "Computer aided draftsman"? Just a thought.I might re-open my subscription then, if such was included monthly. I might actually learn to cut the structure pieces in a proper order and assemble them too!
~I DO carefully buy my KIT structures, but that doesn't mean what I am looking for will be found "ready to put together". Many of us know that routine already. ANd I hate the "precolored plastic" so I have to paint/weather the structures. That I don't mind, but to plan out a building, I just can't plan enough ahead to make something that is proportionately right, or that isn't 16 scale feet tall on one side, and 13 scale feet tall on the other side...with a "bow" sagging in the middle. May be good for a dilapidated old Victorian building, but not for proper MRRing. I am not much of a 1:1 builder in life, so in modeling life it would stand I wouldn't be either!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I never figured I would ever be Scratch building buildings when I first got back into the Hobby in 1978.
Back then the MRR magazines had lots of scale plans and I, at the time, thought that Scratch Building was a Black Art!
As I gained experience this Black Art was not so intimidating and learning to understand a Scale Rule was easy as I was a machinist and used to working with fine dimensions.
The biggest problem is that I decided to build a prototypical Layout for my current layout and most every building needs to be Scratch Built.
So knowing this – it was time to get used to building things that way.
While others will just go another way rather than sit down and learn to do a certain aspect of this Hobby – I have been doing this all my life and when someone walks in the door and wants something out of the ordinary you don’t turn a customer away.
So doing Prototypical Modeling isn’t much different – just have to learn a new method.
The main problem is that one has to be able to visualize what they are trying to build and be familiar with buildings and how they are built – I was lucky and my dad was a professional carpenter and I learned a few things along the way – I also work in a Module Home Manufacturer as a QC and had to know the product inside out and be able to inspect every step of the product production.
This helped me be able to know how to scale things down and how it might have been built as I have to work off of PICTURES of the buildings I need for my layout as everything is now gone (as I am doing Coal country in Western PA) as everything has been reclaimed and most people would never realize that a coal tipple and railroad tracks once stood there.
So working off a scale plan is a piece of cake compared to scaling things off a Picture that usually isn’t that clear or sharp.
Practice on small things and then figure out why they don’t look like the plans and do them again correcting your mistakes – eventually you will join the ranks of the Scratch Builder!
BOB H – Clarion, PA
galaxyCan MR hire a guy just to do design/drawings of ficticious or submitted buildings on a part time freelanced level? Surely 12 structures a year, laid out in HO and/or N scale can't be that hard to produce for a "Computer aided draftsman"?
G,
If you're not an NMRA member, you might be interested to know there's a series of just such drawings that's been underway in NMRA Magazine for a couple of years now. There's a new structure drawing most months that is an isometric view (IIRC correctly from high school drafting) or two that has various callouts of sizes and details. You'd have to do some figuring to actual build from these drawings, but that's actually a good learning experience. I really don't use drawings myself, except to setup and check specific features scaled from life, but I've had lots of practice. If you do want detailed drawings to make it really easy, the book with complete drawings is available. "Early Wood Frame and Masonry Structures" by Pat Harriman.
The high price of model vehicles is a problem when you need quite a few. One way to acquire some cheaper is to consider the toy aisle. Yes, there are vehicles that are HO scale from time to time. More often, you find something suitable that's close. The Ertl Toyota Hybrid-powered Forklift is actually S scale (for those who can actually use it in scale) but it's nicely sized as a somewhat larger HO scale all terrain forklift. The HO operator even looks about right in the seat, which helps the effect.
And this is another Ertl find [Ertl #35249]. It's actually pretty darn close to HO scale, it articulates, has a bed that dumps, and is in the $5 range.
Dare I replay to this thread? OK here goes.
First - pick a theme, era, scale, local - and stick to it - don't buy stuff that does not fit the theme.
March to your own drum - do you really like onboard sound? If not, them don't buy it - is it really worth $50 or $100 per loco to you?
Do your operational goals really require DCC - learn what you like/need/want/enjoy before you spend a ton of money.
Shop smart - I am building a big layout, to run lots of trains. My "theme" requires about 120 locos to put it into operation. (It invloves lots of pre-staged trains ready to apear/disapear to/from hidden staging)
I have most of the locos I need for my plan - at a dollar cost average fiqure of about $100 each - sound and DCC would have doubled that cost - no thank you.
How much detail do you really need? I have a fleet of 1000 freight cars - not every one needs to be a $50 RTR marvel - many are just lightly weathered Athearn Blue Box kits with a few up grades.
All the money I saved on DCC and sound went into my fully intergrated advanced cab control system with sginaling and interlocking - those features were more important to me than sound or individual control of each loco. BUT, advanced cab control has a similar operator experiance to DCC - I have wireless throttles and with a dispatcher on duty engineers simply run their train and obey the signals - no evil DC "toggle flipping", dispite whatever lies you may have been told about DC.
Don't collect model trains - that is a different and much more expensive hobby than building a model railroad. I have 120 locos, but not one UP Big Boy, PRR GG1, NYC Hudson, NKP Berkshire, or SP GS4, etc, etc - remember item one - if it does not fit the theme, don't buy it.
Atlas turnouts for $12.00 work just as well as PECO turnouts for $20.
But here is the one thing I don't skimp on - Nearly my intire fleet of freight cars is equiped with genuine Kadee couplers, Kadee or similar sprung metal trucks, and those Kadee sprung trucks have been re-fitted with Intermountain metal wheel sets.
Why you ask? because it provides superior tracking and greatly reduced rolling resistance, allowing a given loco to pull longer trains - the layout is designed for an average train length of 40 cars, and longer trains are easily possible.
But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a bunch of little trains with no brains.
Sheldon
hon30critter Dusty: I understand your position re scratch building. It is not a skill that comes easily to everyone. However, I might challenge you to an experiment to see if you are really as bad at it as you imply. Do you have a structure which you would like to have on your railroad that is not available as either a kit or RTR? If so, perhaps your could provide us with a detailed description and photographs if you have them (photographs would be ideal). Those of us who are experienced at scratch building would likely be able to provide you with a wealth of ideas on how to go about constructing your project. Of course it would be advisable to start with something fairly simple, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. This could turn into a very interesting and educational thread for those who would like to scratch build but haven't yet taken the plunge. Dave
Thank you Dave, you are a good man & your offer is a fine one.
I've built some wood structure kits from, Campell, Bar Mills, Foscale as well as plastic & resin kits & plaster kits from, Down Town Deco & Tom Yorke.
However there is one model of a building with a Spanish influence that is not available in kit form & the chances are of a kit of this or a similar structure being made available are probably remote.
I think I'm fine scratch building small simple structures &
I can & have built off plans from the wood craftmans kits, but this one building I would like to include in my model railway eludes me. I've attempted to overcome this problem by adapting proprietary plastic parts.My current plan is to make just a flat & the inches back rather than construct the whole building - that would be too nominant on a 16' x 3'.3" layout/diorama.
hon30critter Do you have a structure which you would like to have on your railroad that is not available as either a kit or RTR? If so, perhaps your could provide us with a detailed description and photographs if you have them (photographs would be ideal). Those of us who are experienced at scratch building would likely be able to provide you with a wealth of ideas on how to go about constructing your project. Of course it would be advisable to start with something fairly simple, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. This could turn into a very interesting and educational thread for those who would like to scratch build but haven't yet taken the plunge.
I would love to build an HO scale freight house found at Dearborn Station in Chicago.
The 1-story section measured 474' long x 60' deep.
The 2-story section measured 288' long x 60' deep.
How would you go about scratch building this structure?
richhotrainHow would you go about scratch building this structure?
richhotrain How would you go about scratch building this structure? With both buildings having a combined footprint of 105.20 inches x 8.30 inches, how much room do you have Rich? You could of course cut the depth by about half, just past the roof ridge to give that impression of greater depth, to 4.30 inches. Cheers, the Bear.
richhotrain How would you go about scratch building this structure?
richhotrainBear, that is exactly what I had hoped to do, compress it to about 52" x 4" to fit the planned layout.
As depicted in the photo or when it was in use? Also how close to the edge of the layout?
Cheer, the Bear.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Dare I replay to this thread? OK here goes. First - pick a theme, era, scale, local - and stick to it - don't buy stuff that does not fit the theme. March to your own drum - do you really like onboard sound? If not, them don't buy it - is it really worth $50 or $100 per loco to you? Do your operational goals really require DCC - learn what you like/need/want/enjoy before you spend a ton of money. Shop smart - I am building a big layout, to run lots of trains. My "theme" requires about 120 locos to put it into operation. (It invloves lots of pre-staged trains ready to apear/disapear to/from hidden staging) I have most of the locos I need for my plan - at a dollar cost average fiqure of about $100 each - sound and DCC would have doubled that cost - no thank you. How much detail do you really need? I have a fleet of 1000 freight cars - not every one needs to be a $50 RTR marvel - many are just lightly weathered Athearn Blue Box kits with a few up grades. All the money I saved on DCC and sound went into my fully intergrated advanced cab control system with sginaling and interlocking - those features were more important to me than sound or individual control of each loco. BUT, advanced cab control has a similar operator experiance to DCC - I have wireless throttles and with a dispatcher on duty engineers simply run their train and obey the signals - no evil DC "toggle flipping", dispite whatever lies you may have been told about DC. Don't collect model trains - that is a different and much more expensive hobby than building a model railroad. I have 120 locos, but not one UP Big Boy, PRR GG1, NYC Hudson, NKP Berkshire, or SP GS4, etc, etc - remember item one - if it does not fit the theme, don't buy it. Atlas turnouts for $12.00 work just as well as PECO turnouts for $20. But here is the one thing I don't skimp on - Nearly my intire fleet of freight cars is equiped with genuine Kadee couplers, Kadee or similar sprung metal trucks, and those Kadee sprung trucks have been re-fitted with Intermountain metal wheel sets. Why you ask? because it provides superior tracking and greatly reduced rolling resistance, allowing a given loco to pull longer trains - the layout is designed for an average train length of 40 cars, and longer trains are easily possible. But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a bunch of little trains with no brains. Sheldon
Not to be critical, Sheldon; but, your building a layout that is far beyond a person just getting started in the hobby should contemplate. Thinking $10,000.00 worth of locomotives is what it's going to take to be a in this hobby scares the heck out of me and I've been at this hobby a good long while, let alone someone who is just getting started!
I have no problem with your not wanting DCC, with 100 locomotives that is understandable; however, for the rest of us who maybe only need a few DCC equiped locos, $170.00 for a starter DCC system and less that $25.00 for a decoder, is not that scary of an investment. Yes, if sound is important to you, the decoders will be more expensive.
Your layout also requires a fairly large crew to operate. Planing for operations at your level, would also scare many people off! It's great, if you live in a place where there are many like minded people interested in helping you run your layout.
I will agree with you that replacing plastic wheels with metal ones is a good choice. However, I don't agree that cars must have sprung trucks!
Some of what you have to say is helpful to people wanting to get started. However, your layout ambitions are on far to grand a scale for beginners!
However, this comment really puts me off: "But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a bunch of little trains with no brains". This is an agressive put down to everyone else who may not agree with your point of view, serving absolutly no one and is very unwelcoming to anyone reading what you have to say!
richhotrain Bear, that is exactly what I had hoped to do, compress it to about 52" x 4" to fit the planned layout. As depicted in the photo or when it was in use? Also how close to the edge of the layout? Cheer, the Bear.
richhotrain Bear, that is exactly what I had hoped to do, compress it to about 52" x 4" to fit the planned layout.
My desire would be to model the freight house in the 1950s during its heyday.
The structure would essentially be centered in a 12' x 6' section of my Dream Layout.
Rich,
I believe that freight house is where Lifschultz Fast Freight was...if so, I was in that building many times with my Father, who was a close friend of the family when their parents migrated from Russia in the beginning of the 20th century. Very interesting construction inside of it. All wood beam on concrete base and brick walls, like many buildings in that area. I would love to help You out...but unfortunately have too many irons in the fire now, working on my own trucking company buildings and trucks/trailers of that era. If You would like to know some info about Lifschultz, read this story:
http://hankstruckforum.com/htforum/index.php?topic=2382.0
Take Care!
Frank
richhotrainMy desire would be to model the freight house in the 1950s during its heyday.
To be honest I haven’t tried an actual building yet, and with the freight on detail parts to this side of the pond would probably make things a lot harder by trying to it myself. As food for thought though, have you looked at these....
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_framed-windows/p/8047/Default.aspx
http://www.grandtline.com/products/arch/ho/ho_scale_architectural_doors.html
http://www.grandtline.com/products/arch/ho/ho_scale_framed_windows.html
http://www.rustystumps.com/products.asp?cat=2&pg=2
zstripe Rich, I believe that freight house is where Lifschultz Fast Freight was...
I believe that freight house is where Lifschultz Fast Freight was...
That freight house in the photo was the C&EI RR Freight House, but the Erie RR Freight House was right next to it. You cannot see the Erie RR Freight House very well in the photo, but it is to the rear (south) of the C&EI RR Freight House, right beyond that water tower.
Lifschultz Fast Freight had a huge facility there, just before the C&WI tracks turned west under the Rock Island tracks at Clark Street. The two freight houses are almost identical in appearance. For some reason, Lifschultz seemed to be closely associated with the Erie RR.
A good start for Your freight house...could be this one from Walthers. Same windows, change roof, add dock and doors to first floor:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2953
zstripe Rich, A good start for Your freight house...could be this one from Walthers. Same windows, change roof, add dock and doors to first floor: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2953 Take Care! Frank
Still, where do you start?
My photo with the pumpkin patch in WPF has examples of modeling on the cheap.
Starting in the foreground ....
Rocks are made from broken plaster pieces.
Tall grass is made from pieces of twine.
The pumpkins with vines were made by JTT and recently purchased on sale at a clearance shelf at Hobby Lobby.
Fence posts are half of round tooth picks with pointed ends down into scenery materal.
Fence wire is sewing thread.
Scarecrow was "kit-bashed" from half of a Q-Tip.
Crows were made from modeling clay and painted black. (Similar to clay pigeons. LOL)
Corn is a Busch product purchased when Walther Flyer had them on sale.
Backdrop at this location of my layout was painted, and a picture of barn was glued onto it. The barn picture is one I found in a cheap framed picture purchased at a thrift store. I touched it up a bit with paint.
Respectfully, who said this thread or its question was just about beginners? Seems to me that there has been considerable talk about other big layouts in this thread.
You can take my closing line any way you want, but from where I sit, it is just an advance acknowledgement that people like you will not agree with me, and I understand and accept that.
You don't have to agree about sprung trucks, but my experiance says that pulling trains in the 40 to 100 car range they make a difference - for two reasons, they do track better because they are "equalized", keeping all the wheels on the rail all the time - and - because they are metal, they add weight where it is needed most, allowing the rest of the car to remain lighter and have a lower center of gravity.
Everyones interests and goals in this hobby are different. Everyones resources of time, money and space are different. Everyone should taylor their modeling to those limitations.
I have no interest in only having a 3' x 10' ISL (industrial switching layout) Brakie loves them. But I do have the equal to several ISL's "inside" my layout.
The point of my post is this, the same point I have been making for years on here - learn what YOU really like and do it - don't just do stuff because everyone else is or because the model press says so.
I have been at this for 47 years, I have no interest in building any more "small" layouts - been there, done that. My post also speaks to the fact that large layouts need not be as expensive as many people think.
And my layout is designed for both operation and display running. One person can operate it just fine - five trains worth actually.
47 years, 120 locomotives, average price each $100, equals 2.5 locos per year, $250 per year.
Your really didn't think I bought 120 locos and 1000 freight cars in two weeks did you? I forgot to mention the 200 passenger cars.....
Sheldon .... You make a good point. Those of us who have been in the hobby for a lifetime, have accumulated sizable fleets of locomotives and cars.
Some of the trains no longer being used can be sold, and funds used for trains which fit into the current theme.
You are right about Kadee couplers. The cheap plastic couplers don't last long.
Regarding trucks, I have some old sprung trucks, but my experiences with new quality trucks with free-rolling metal wheels have been good too.
Those just joining the hobby should start small, and a small switching layout is a great starting point. Simple layouts can be expanded and sometimes evolve into large layouts when available resources allow it.
My current layout was started when after moving to this house in 2001. The layout is built one section at a time. This allowed me to operate trains early on completed sections with scenery. I don't like looking at just boards and track.
I converted to DCC about 4 years ago, and I'm pleased with it.
richhotrain For some reason, Lifschultz seemed to be closely associated with the Erie RR. Rich
Lifschultz handled almost all the Import business from Europe that was shipped by ship to this country, mainly clothing. Off loaded from ship to boxcar, sent by rail to Chicago to those freight houses and off loaded to the trucks/trailers that were backed into the doors on the other side of the building. Called cross docking and delivered by truck to all consignees downtown and all over Chicago and some out of state, delivered by truck. Marshall Fields and many other big business, used their own trucks to pick-up from those freight house's. I watched them do it. Working on the docks was a very good paying job back then.
The hardest part about scratch building that structure, will be cutting out all the windows and doors. So start looking into some good cutting tools, like inside corner cutting punches and such.
Model Railroading, on the cheap.
Got to have a plan and what to include on your layout.
Research: It's cheap, looking for idea's for free. Lot of free info out there....if You take the time to look. Might learn more than You thought.
Edit: Some pic's and info about the Erie Railroad and Lifschultz:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Lifschultz+Fast+Freight+Chicago+Images&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbo
Sheldon, I did not know that you've been building model railroads for 47 years, I also don't know why you would think we should care!
Although not specifically pointed at beginners, this thread would be a very good place for them to start. Anyone who has been involved in model railroading for just a few short years hardly needs your; or, my help on how to stretch their hobby dollars.
The hobby, is what it is! The model railroading public has demanded the products that sell big in the market today, meaning highly detailed, RTR stuff that costs more than I (and maybe you) are willing to pay.
Many times out at the R/C flying people have come up to me and ask how much it costs to get into R/C. When I outline how much it costs to get into the hobby, they may well say: "Well, I could never afford that!" Then I ask them if they fish? Being from Minnesota, there is a very strong possibility that they do! Then I ask how much money they have tied up in boat, motor, trailer, rods, reels, tackle, license, motels and travel costs and it becomes very clear to them, that I am involved in the cheaper activitiy!
NP2626 Sheldon, I did not know that you've been building model railroads for 47 years, I also don't know why you would think we should care! Although not specifically pointed at beginners, this thread would be a very good place for them to start. Anyone who has been involved in model railroading for just a few short years hardly needs your; or, my help on how to stretch their hobby dollars. The hobby, is what it is! The model railroading public has demanded the products that sell big in the market today, meaning highly detailed, RTR stuff that costs more than I (and maybe you) are willing to pay. I really don’t feel I was criticizing you. You simply appeared to me to have missed the point of this thread! If talking about needing 100s of locomotives doesn’t scare people off, then I don’t know what will. Many times out at the R/C flying people have come up to me and ask how much it costs to get into R/C. When I outline how much it costs to get into the hobby, they may well say: "Well, I could never afford that!" Then I ask them if they fish? Being from Minnesota, there is a very strong possibility that they do! Then I ask how much money they have tied up in boat, motor, trailer, rods, reels, tackle, license, motels and travel costs and it becomes very clear to them, that I am involved in the cheaper activitiy! Best wishes!
My point about the size of my locomotive fleet was that if one does decide to build a larger layout, choices can be made so that every loco need not cost $350 - like so many today do.
As to how long I have been in the hobby, it simply speaks to the fact that I did not accumulate this much stuff in just a few years.
To expalin just a little further, Pulling long trains requires more power. The typical train on my layout is pulled by a three or four unit diesel lashup or by double or triple headed steam - average train 3 powered units x 30 staged trains = 90 locos, plus some switchers, self propelled passenger equipment and spares for operational power changes =120 powered units.
So in my "counting", an ABBA lashup is 4 locos, not one. No different than four GP7's on the head end is also 4 locos.
So you could say I only have locos for about 35 or 40 "trains".
Not really that many for a layout that can run 5 trains independently at once and can run 8 trains at the same time with a full crew.
I have my share of high priced RTR, and I build advanced craftsman kits, and everything in between - but again, for ME, not every piece needs to have "museum" level detail.
Another great deal, if you are into using your computer to modify photo graphs, make signs, make textures like brick and stone, make logos or do jsut about any kind of image manipulation.
Program is called GIMP. It's free. It runs on XP and later. It is extremely powerful. Anything you can do in Photoshop you can do with GIMP. It will enlarge, shrink, rotate, crop, adjust color and contrast, merge images (add smoke to a steamer's stack) and correct perspective. It will take a slant wise shot, and make it into a straight on broadside view. I was able take a tiny bit of stone wall, replicate it, and merge all the replicas together giving me a big piece of stone wall to use on a foundation.
Two gotcha's. The built in documentation sucks. I have not been able to find a decent bit of documation on the Internet. There is stuff out there, but it all tends to lead off with technical nouns such as "layer" or "alpha channel" with out defining them. The other is GIMP doesn't know how to work the printer on XP. You can do better by saving the image out to disk from GIMP, and printing it using Microsoft Paint.
But the price is right.
If Sheldon is building a layout at the 'lower middle class' expense level, I'm doing something very similar at the 'abject poverty' level.
I own about half as much motive power as he does. Equipping each unit with the least expensive of non-sound decoders would cost me more than it cost me to buy them.
I don't have sprung trucks - but my trucks are equalized. The sideframes can pivot on the shouldered screws that hold them to the bolster. As for wheels, try RP25 nickel silver on needle-point steel axles running in metal journal boxes - standard for Japanese products when I bought them.
My electrical system is similar to, but not the same as, Sheldon's. One operator can run several trains (some in a 'fire and forget' mode) or a crew can operate their trains by signal while the CTC op routes power and throws most switches. Or a single operator can walk along with a single train, swapping off to run sequence style with the fast clock off. Most of the parts I need (wire, toggle and slide switches etc.) were acquired as salvage many moons ago. I fabricate terminal blocks from machine screws, nuts and washers mounted on (through) scrap styrene or plywood - at about 1/100 the cost per wire connection of the store-bought variety (and infinitely more dependable than suitcase connectors.)
Since I consider freight cars simply as markers in the game of car distribution I don't want fussy little detail parts that can get damaged easily. Most of my roster consists of little tin boxes shaped like freight cars, purchased 3 for $5 equivalent in Yen. Their Kadees cost more than the cars did.
I do own some 'better' items - mostly fancy passenger equipment and a few modern (in 1964) freight wagons. Also, my locomotives, while inexpensive, are brass and have detailing comparable to contemporary PFM products.
The one thing I really save on is specialwork - I build my own from raw rail on wood ties, and move points with ancient KTM twin-coil machines or electrical switches acting as manual levers, connected by linkages including such exotic materials as paperclips, fishing line, expended ball pen cartridges (remember when they were brass?) and stripped automotive nuts. The miniature screweyes I use to guide the fishing line are the most expensive parts!
So, how big is my model empire. It's gradually using up all the floor space of a double garage, can handle two dozen freights (short trains of short cars) and the frenetic passenger traffic that ran on my prototype (JNR Chu-o--Nishi Hon Sen) in September of 1964. As far as I can determine, that's as much as I want or need.
[Not being a saint, I also have my 'collection' of a half-dozen US prototype steam locos (all of which I saw in revenue service) and a GG1 (ditto,) as well as a few US pattern freight cars decalled for clubs I once belonged to. They get to run on April Fool's Day and Halloween.]
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - inexpensively)
If any reader of this post is interested and has access to back isssue's of MR, from 35 plus years back, a colume that was a regular was called "Dollar Model" and or something close to this name. Just like Spike and Moe.
Slept a few times since and ate a chicken or two since.
The back issues of MR of this age range, are a excellent source of budget modeling, not like we see in the current MR.
Not everyone has a unlimited source of extra income and or the sky is the limit financial abilities.
With this said, new copies of back isssue of MR, some going back to around 1970, are still available from Kalmbach.
Some of the larger public libraries in Our Nation, have bound issues of the magazine and may have same now electroniclly, you know, the computer format.
If you are fortunate to reside in a area of the Country, which has a annual train show, this is another source for back issues.
But again, not everone resides in areas, where train shows are held annually. It's fine if you do, bad if you do not.
Not your fault, nor mine... That's the way it is...
Anyhow this leeds to another thought.
Reminds me of comments in this forum... as... on Athearn Blue Box availabilty and E-Bay bidding!, Examples let's say.
Bidding?
What are we general contractors bidding on building projects?
Shame, we do not have a web-site for these goodies, where, this is my fair market price, if interested, please forward payment.
With this,my comments are sure too do the following...
Incoming!
This is a great thread, so many good ideas and tips. Here are a few more:
Many hobby products are simply repackaged from other sources.
Use 0-20 weight oil instead of "hobby lubes". Same cSt viscosity value and you can buy a quart for the price of a ounce.
Use white lithium grease w/ptfe instead of "hobby grease". Same thing but you get a large tube for the price of a tiny tube.
3M super weatherstrip adhesive. Same as wathers goo except you get a large tube instead of a tiny one.
Buy 2/56 screws in bulk online or from a nut/bolt company and save tons over the small hobby packs. Same with LEDs and resistors.
Jim
Run Eight,
You ran up the flag. I'm saluting.
An awful lot of what I know about the almost-lost art of scratchbuilding came from building Dollar Models - or using those techniques to build what I DID want.
All of those articles (and a lot of other stuff) are on the 75 years of Model Railroader DVDs - and well worth the price. The only reason I never bought them is the shelves above this desk - holding almost every issue, and everything issued since.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with MR copies that were old in 1964)
zstripe richhotrain For some reason, Lifschultz seemed to be closely associated with the Erie RR. Rich Lifschultz handled almost all the Import business from Europe that was shipped by ship to this country, mainly clothing.
Lifschultz handled almost all the Import business from Europe that was shipped by ship to this country, mainly clothing.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7547061@N02/6434346337/
LION builds subway trains. Everybody knows LION builds subways.
Subways have pillars. Everybody knows subways have pillars, just like Ruffles have ridges!
LION build tunnel structirue with 1/16th inch welding rod. Comes a one pound tube for under six dollars, about 30 pieces. LION uses Coffee Stirrers, buy at Walmart 200 for a dollar or so.
The steel rod exdentds into the table, it is soldered at the base of the construction to keep things stable, Poke hole with awl into sub road bed, poke hole with awl into wall. insert base into hole in roadbed, push extra rod (top) into hole in wall. Paint bare metal, ad top to the tunnel. It is good enough.
If not is good enough then you are obviously rich enough to hire a professional model builder, or have the money time and patience to do it your self.
LIONS are not known for patience. Good enough is good enough, purrfect is a pain in the tail.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
LIONS build Subways
Subways have Signals. Lots and Lots of Signals.
LION must havbe lots and lots of cheap signals.
See how good it looks:
richhotrain zstripe richhotrain For some reason, Lifschultz seemed to be closely associated with the Erie RR. Rich Lifschultz handled almost all the Import business from Europe that was shipped by ship to this country, mainly clothing. Frank, here is the Lifschultz trucking facility at the Erie RR freight house at 16th and Clark, just south of that C&EI freight house in my photo. https://www.flickr.com/photos/7547061@N02/6434346337/ Rich
Frank, here is the Lifschultz trucking facility at the Erie RR freight house at 16th and Clark, just south of that C&EI freight house in my photo.
Yep! That's the one I'm referring to. That's Canal St., the overpass in the distance is Roosevelt Rd. Back in it's hey-day, about every dock door had a trailer or truck in it. Was in that joint many times, in the early 50's with My Dad and Uncle who drove for R&V Cartage, exclusively for Spiegal catalog warehouse. Memories
Frank, I just read where Lifschultz fronted the freight houses from 14th Street to 16th Street. So, I'll bet you were right about being in that C&EI freight house as a kid. The Lifschultz trucks worked the docks on the Clark Street side of the freight house.
Hello All,
Back to the topic at hand...
Doing it on the cheap!
The parent company of my railroad is The Consolidated Materials Group.
That means I look for items that can be re-purposed on the railroad.
I make my rolling stock out of ice cream sticks; available at some home improvement stores as “Hobby Supplies.” They also offer tongue depressors that don’t need to be sanitized.
I bought 1,000 5.5” wooden stir sticks for various projects from rolling stock to buildings.
For car weights- -cold rolled metal stock from you local hardware store and some double sided carpet tape works well. If you know any metal workers or welders ask for scraps.
I use BB's when I need to fine-tune the final weight of cars.
Water towers are constructed from various items such as Vienna sausage cans to mixed nut containers. Silos have been re-purposed liquor bottle sleeves. If your a fan of bake your own cinnamon rolls the sleeve and divider that some brands come packaged in make great storage tanks.
My wife works in the veterinary field and has supplied tubing and various fittings.
If you know or are a cyclist or paint ball enthusiast spent CO2 cartridges can be used in many applications from flatbed loads to industrial buildings.
Never underestimate the venerable PVC pipe. I’ve made everything from culverts to flat ended tankers, to refuelling facilities and of course flatcar or gondola loads.
Tire valve stem caps, available at auto parts stores, make great domes for tanker cars.
I’ve also used lip balm containers as removable domes for larger tankers. Drill a hole the approximate size of the lip balm container in a length of PVC. Cap the ends of the pipe with styrene and file/sand smooth the ends. Trim the lip balm container to just fit into the hole. Epoxy or CA the tube in place just below where the cap fits on. Sand, prime, paint and finish the tank and viola!
Dowels can be painted to resemble anything from sewer pipes to logs. Speaking of log loads...don’t be afraid to cut small branches from your trees and trim to fit your scale.
I haven’t even touched on electrical components and wiring that can be salvaged and re-purposed.
Hopefully this will help and get the post back on track...uh yeah!
Do it on the cheap!
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
richhotrain Frank, I just read where Lifschultz fronted the freight houses from 14th Street to 16th Street. So, I'll bet you were right about being in that C&EI freight house as a kid. The Lifschultz trucks worked the docks on the Clark Street side of the freight house. Rich
I believe You may be confusing Clark st. and Canal st. Canal st. bordered the rail yard on the west side of all the freight and passenger yards east to Lumber st. After lumber st, came the South Chgo river on the east side of the river was Clark st. with only two tracks on the west side of Clark. Look up Rooseveldt Rd. and Canal on Google and You'll see what I mean.
duplicate post
zstripe Yep! That's the one I'm referring to. That's Canal St., the overpass in the distance is Roosevelt Rd.
Yep! That's the one I'm referring to. That's Canal St., the overpass in the distance is Roosevelt Rd.
Frank. that's Clark Street, just to the east of the Rock Island tracks.
Canal Street is west of the Chicago River.
It's been fun reading some of these comments, takes me back to my "yout" in suburban Chicago (that railroadin' town) and the layout my dad built fold down benchwork for. It folded down from a frame on the wall, Murphy bed style, and though I had to remove the cars and locos from it, prior to folding it up, it was a great layout. Just the other day I bought a new can of Barbasol shaving cream (yep, just like Dad used) and upon taking off the protective cover from the nozzle button I recalled using that little part in several ways on my childhood layout. I think I made an army tank turret out of some, and ventilators for industrial buildings from others.
One comment regarding CAD programs for scratchbuilding though. I'm self taught in AutoCad and though I've gotten reasonably good at it, the real timesaving feature of it is the ability to copy, modify and duplicate drawings. Having learned drafting in High School, using CAD hasn't made the process that much quicker for a single drawing and will never substitute for the quick sketches I use as a machinist on some small jobs. If you need to change or modify the drawing though, what a benefit! There are some really good free CAD programs out there in the interwebs, but the learning curve can be dauntingly steep. I would encourage people to try them out, but it would be helpful to learn some basic isometric sketching techniques first. You don't need artistic talent (thank heavens) but isometric sketching helps you learn proportions and lays the foundation for CAD work. Just don't get so wrapped up in CAD you forget to build something.....
Kudos to Steven for opening this thread up, and I realize the narrow line he has to walk. His advertisers help keep the bills paid and they depend on our purchases, but at the same time he's trying to fill the need for a less expensive approach to the hobby. As in so much of life, it's all about balance.
Now get out there and hack away at something. Experience builds skills and skills build more satisfactory experiences. Happy modelling all.......
Lou
EDIT:
Post deleted - off topic.
hon30critter Rich: Neat structure! I would suggest that this project would be better handled as a kitbash then a scratch build unless you are willing to forgo the arched brick over the windows. Personally, I think the arched brick is a key detail so I would want to have it on the model if it were mine. As an aside, your structure could be built fairly accurately with Walthers Modulars but the cost for doing a building the size that you want would be pretty stiff, so forget that! Frank's suggestion of the Walthers freight house is almost perfect for the upper story with the two windows/pilaster/two windows/pilaster pattern, and the arched brick over the windows.
Rich:
Neat structure!
I would suggest that this project would be better handled as a kitbash then a scratch build unless you are willing to forgo the arched brick over the windows. Personally, I think the arched brick is a key detail so I would want to have it on the model if it were mine.
As an aside, your structure could be built fairly accurately with Walthers Modulars but the cost for doing a building the size that you want would be pretty stiff, so forget that!
Frank's suggestion of the Walthers freight house is almost perfect for the upper story with the two windows/pilaster/two windows/pilaster pattern, and the arched brick over the windows.
I see three possibilities here, and they are pretty much as you describe them.
One, kitbash existing structures. Frank's suggestion is a good one, but I think that I could get closer to the prototype with another method.
Two, use modular parts like Walthers. Actually, the Woodland Scenics Modulars comes even closer for the right combinations of windows and doors.
Three, do a full scratch build. Start with brick sheets, as Frank suggested, and cut out the openings for the windows and doors.
As i study that building, there are four distinct wall "panels", a pair of large double hung windows, a pair of small windows, one large freight door, and one smaller arched door. These four distinct panels are consistently placed across the entire length of the building.
Whatever I ultimately decide to do, I will post photos and descriptions of my progress.
ATLANTIC CENTRALYour really didn't think I bought 120 locos and 1000 freight cars in two weeks did you? I forgot to mention the 200 passenger cars..... Sheldon
And that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases.
I went to a train show yesterday and bought three Roundhouse IPD boxcars with KDs for $18.00 ($6.00 ea)-the same road names that is/was available RTR for $18.95 each at street prices. While it is true these older Roundhouse cars doesn't have the newer metal stirrups and grabs they still get the job done at a lessor cost.
241 IPD boxcars in my 16 years of collecting these cars which averages 15 cars a year which is very affordable.
I'm not sure what the yearly cost would be since those 15 cars a year includes new and used Roundhouse and Athearn BB cars as well as new Athearn RTR IPD boxcars.
BRAKIEAnd that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases.
Yes, this is why a budget of some kind is important, even if it's just in your head what you can spend each month and the ultimate numbers that becomes your goal to equip the layout you plan to build.
On the other hand, Sheldon's numbers also point out something else that's good about considering your ultimate goals and the budget needed to get there. Sheldon doesn't want or need sound. On the other hand, with motive power budgets that big, you still could build an impressive roster that is 100% DCC-sound. Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units.
Ultimately, once extended over a period of time, because you couldn't build it all even if you could afford to buy it all at once, budgets don't "force" us to follow any particular path in the hobby, DC vs DCC, modern diesel vs steam, standard gauge vs narrowgauge. They're simply a guide to how you can turn your dreams into more concrete reality. With careful consideration, planning and time, you can afford just about anything in the hobby if you really want it.
Lowes has 1/2 inch #19 brads which work as perfect substitute for track nails At $1.36 for a 1.75 ounce package, you can get three packagess for $4.08 compared to $3.95 for one package of model railroad track nails.
mlehmanEven if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units.
Or add DCC/Sound decoders as the budget allows.
I have 2 DCC/Sound engines and a third in the shop getting its DCC/ Sound..This one started life as a Athearn DCC ready SW1500.
BRAKIE mlehman Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units. Or add DCC/Sound decoders as the budget allows. I have 2 DCC/Sound engines and a third in the shop getting its DCC/ Sound..This one started life as a Athearn DCC ready SW1500.
mlehman Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units.
Yes, this is one area where diesels have an advanatge over steam in budgeting and building motive power rosters. My steam is all narrowgauge, both Blackstone and the few pieces of brass with Tsunamis I installed. You have a hard time plausibily getting away with doubleheading every train if you only converted half your steamers at once, for instance.
But with diesels, it's no problem to mix in one sound unit among several consists, which is what I have done with my F units. I still need to convert hood units, so have to simply rely on noisy Athearn mechanisms for "poor engineer's sound" on them. Works OK, if you have a vivid imagination.
mlehman BRAKIE And that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases. Yes, this is why a budget of some kind is important, even if it's just in your head what you can spend each month and the ultimate numbers that becomes your goal to equip the layout you plan to build. On the other hand, Sheldon's numbers also point out something else that's good about considering your ultimate goals and the budget needed to get there. Sheldon doesn't want or need sound. On the other hand, with motive power budgets that big, you still could build an impressive roster that is 100% DCC-sound. Even if DCC-sound units are 50% more expensive (they're usually not) the budget that gets you 120 DC locos could just as easily get you a DCC-sound roster in the neighborhood of 80 units. Ultimately, once extended over a period of time, because you couldn't build it all even if you could afford to buy it all at once, budgets don't "force" us to follow any particular path in the hobby, DC vs DCC, modern diesel vs steam, standard gauge vs narrowgauge. They're simply a guide to how you can turn your dreams into more concrete reality. With careful consideration, planning and time, you can afford just about anything in the hobby if you really want it.
BRAKIE And that is the master key of obtaining a large collection-takes many years of collecting to keep things affordable and as was mention elsewhere a big layout can be built in phases.
Mike,
All fair and valid points, I do however have few comments.
What is the going price for nice sound decoder and speaker these days? Generally, when I was paying attention to prices, nice sound decoders were around $100.
And when comparing DCC ready or DCC/no sound locos to DCC/sound locos, sound seems to be about an $80 to $100 option.
But here is point one for me - a large percentage of my loco fleet is Proto2000 diesels purchased in the $30 to $60 a unit range - adding a sound decoder to them now triples their cost.
Sure, I have other locos I paid more for, most of them are steam, but evem a large percentage of them were purchased in the $100 to $200 range - Spectrum, Proto2000, even several BLI (some from the days when they offered "stealth", some I actually removed decoders from).
But even a $100 spectrum loco becomes twice as expensive if I buy a sound decoder for it.
So maybe as a result of my exceptional bargain hunting skills, sound would cut the size of the fleet in half - or double the budget.
Next point - DCC with sound requires a DCC system - to match the operations needs of the current design plan I owuld need at least eight wireless DCC throttles........and the rest of the DCC infrastructure.
Very little of that cost would be offset by not buying DC components because my DC system intergrates signaling, turnout control, CTC dispatching and power routing.
At the time I bought them, my eight Aristo wireless throttles would have not paid for eight wireless DCC throttles for many manufacturer - not to mention the rest of the needed DCC infrastructure.
Like Doctor Wayne, but for different reasons, DCC brings nothing to the table I want, in fact it would just create a lot more work and expense for me.
I clearly understand that this is not the case for many modelers, but my goals are not like many modelers.
So it is a win, win for me. My locos cost way less, I can have more of them, the work and/or expense of decoders is avoided, and I have my much desired CTC dispatching and signaling.
I would like to make two other points about my modeling goals relative to layout size.
One, my layout plan is BIG, but it is not complex. Big for me is not about more complexity, it is about capturing the feel of the prototype. On a model layout, a 10 track, double ended classification yard has the same complexity if it is 12 feet long or 24 feet long - it just looks and functions more like the real thing if it is 24 feet long.
Two - I like good display running values, what is a model railroad if it is not to "look at"? So my track plan is set up for BOTH good dsplay running and good operation - that operation can be by one person or a large crew - it can be by walk around or at a central dispatch panel.
Some of you people just don`t know when to shut up and others don`t know when to quit.
Way off topic for the last three pages.
Here is a building I did for a yard office on my layout......I still would like to add a light or three and a little more weathering.
The building was built with Evergreen sheet and strip.......and Grandt Line/Tichy windows.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
DCC is a choice, plain and simple. If you don't see the benefit, than there must not be one for you.
As far as changing the wiring to add DCC, I must be lucky as I simply replaced my Tech II throttle with my Digitrax Zephyr and started running my decoder equipped locos the day I installed the DCC. So, I can run DCC or DC, something that for some reason isn’t recommended. No 12 gauge buss wires and I don’t have track drops from every length of track on the layout. Never had a problem and don’t expect to. Maybe if I were to start running 3-5 trains at I time I would and if that ever happens I will add a buss wire. This would eliminate my ability to run DC, which really wouldn’t bother me as I hardly ever run DC anyway.
I like DCC, I like the fact that I am running my trains and not my track. However, like I have said it is a choice. Price wise it is slightly more expensive. I see the latest TECH 7 power pack is around $60.00 and the Digitrax Zephyr is $170.00 from Model Train stuff. Decoders run from less than $25.00 up. So, for the average model railroader, which I consider myself to be, going DCC with 10-15 locomotives to install decoders in isn’t that big of a deal. Like we all say, we’ve accumulated our equipment over time. So other than the Zephyr and a few decoders to get started with, the investment is doable!
This post is not off topic!
To illustrate my point that with careful budgeting, you can squeeze in modeling some of the more exotic and inviting aspects of railroading. Narrowgauge, for instance. One way many do this is to take N scale track (9 mm gauge) and components and build HOn30 designs. This is often used to model 2' gauge New England style, small industrial lines, etc. I have some limited experience with it, but will leave it to someone else to go into detail.
I model the Rio Grande and some associated lines in HOn3 (10.5 mm gauge). Blackstone brought RTR to HOn3 almost a decade ago. Along with more traditional brass equipment, one can spend a fortune if you happen to have one. But even a sophisticated loco like a Blackstone K-27 or C-19 (or the upcoming K-36) can be budgeted for to get you going. There's a wide variety of kits available, so there's no need to spend for RTR when you can enjoy building most everything else while stretching your dollar further. Remember that away from the track, everything is the same as ordinary HO scale stuff, the scale with the largest selection of items of all. So the same budgeting that gets you a nice standard gauge layout over time could produce a great little HOn3 layout, too, if that's your desire.
But lets start really small and cheap. How about a less than 6" long train? http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/239376.aspx
The Grandt Line 25-ton loco is kit, available in either HO or HOn3 for $55. Yep, you read right, about the cost of some RTR freight cars these days. The 4-wheel cars were built on a PSC 31280 HOn3 flat car chassis I scored for $1 on close-out and scrap box parts. Throw in a decoder and a couple of SMD LEDs for headlights and it's a HOn3 train for under $100.
Need bigger power and have a slightly bigger budget? So long as you're OK with a modern diesel, for just over $200 you can get a strong performer from Liliput that's also easily convertible from HOn30 (remember it back at the beginning of this comment) with a high-quality Lenz Silver decoder and a conversion kit that can be modified to operate on HOn3. If DC is all you need, then you can have it running in HOn3 for about $175. The paint is not stock, but works for me
On a budget, but want brass? So long as you are OK with a K-27, there are tons of them out there, put out to pasture by the performance of the incredible Blackstone K-27. You should be able to find a K-27 for under $300 with little trouble, perhaps as low as the ~$200 range if you shop carefully. Converting it to DCC or DCC/sound will add a bit and require you to learn how to install it, but if you're gonna be cheap, you gotta roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty.
So how about rolling stock. So long as you want to build kits, careful shopping will yield all kinds of prototypes in a variety of materials and challenge to your skills. But there are humbler approaches. The old MDC Overton and 50' passenger cars can be split and narrowed. Less complicated are freight cars. In this pic is a modified flat car, the pieces of another one ready to assemble, and some leftover parts that I used to build the cars in the mini-train. The parts and instruction sheet are from old MDC/Roundhouse 30' steel flat car kits, which come with extension wood sides to make a gon.
The finished product, with recycled trucks, testing in a train in Eureka.
Even with RTR HOn3 available, narrowgauge is still a hands-on niche. So long as you don't mind learning by doing, you'll really enjoy it. And it doesn't have to be expensive if you choose wisely and shop carefully.
Dennis,
Nice building. The finishing really helps it stand out
Sheldon,
In terms of pricing, I was speaking of MSRP in general terms. Many new locos run in the $200 range in DC, with another $100 if you want factory DCC/sound. But it's a general argument, not one about specific locos or the fact that you still get more DC for your dollar. On the other hand, Bachmann is pushing the costs of DCC/sound down, first gen chips are still available dirt cheap (no thank you, but they're good enough for some), and it's likely the intro of the WOW 3rd gen decoder will push a 3rd gen Tsunami to market sooner rather than later. This will push pricing on 2nd gen decoders down and for many people the sound experience is satisfactory although I know YMMV on that, too.
Then there's the used decoder market, which will only expand as current users upgrade to improved performance.
My point is that if one wants to dream of pursuing any particular aspect of model railroading -- with the possible exception of the pure brass collector -- with careful budgeting, reasonable expectations, smart shopping, and being willing to learn a few skills, don't let the idea it will be too expensive dissaude you. There's almost always a way to afford it.
I like the part of this thread where everybody says a new person should do this, but have been in the hobby for decades. I'm still new I suppose(2 year tenure in the hobby) so as a young guy and still relatively new modeler. Here's my take:
You're not just putting money in but time as well, read, get as much info as you can. Then you confidently make a decision. Trust me, I've got money to buy nice models and not be "cheap" but my price is I don't have the time.
If you just want something simple, join a club, get a small train. Had I known this in 2012, I would've had an Atlas N scale GP15-1 train with the set and DCC when I started.
Detailing and scratchbuilding are not requirements, I can't detail worth my life nor can I scratchbuild.
A 4 x 8 or 2 x 4(if you're in N scale) is a lot better than nothing even if it's bare plywood with some track on it.
If you want to model cheaply remember the Keep it Simple Stupid principle and always think ahead like if you want to eventually upgrade to DCC get DCC equipped or DCC friendly(literally drop in decoder simple.)
To be honest there is no cheap way, the hobby will cost as much as you want it to.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
NP2626 DCC is a choice, plain and simple. If you don't see the benefit, than there must not be one for you. As far as changing the wiring to add DCC, I must be lucky as I simply replaced my Tech II throttle with my Digitrax Zephyr and started running my decoder equipped locos the day I installed the DCC. So, I can run DCC or DC, something that for some reason isn’t recommended. No 12 gauge buss wires and I don’t have track drops from every length of track on the layout. Never had a problem and don’t expect to. Maybe if I were to start running 3-5 trains at I time I would and if that ever happens I will add a buss wire. This would eliminate my ability to run DC, which really wouldn’t bother me as I hardly ever run DC anyway. I like DCC, I like the fact that I am running my trains and not my track. However, like I have said it is a choice. Price wise it is slightly more expensive. I see the latest TECH 7 power pack is around $60.00 and the Digitrax Zephyr is $170.00 from Model Train stuff. Decoders run from less than $25.00 up. So, for the average model railroader, which I consider myself to be, going DCC with 10-15 locomotives to install decoders in isn’t that big of a deal. Like we all say, we’ve accumulated our equipment over time. So other than the Zephyr and a few decoders to get started with, the investment is doable! This post is not off topic!
Completely agreed.
NP, I don't know how your DC layout was wired, but in many cases on simple layouts you can just replace a DC power pack with the DCC comand station - I know several modelers who have done just that.
In my case, the signaling, signal interlocking, turnout control, and CTC power routing (control of the blocks) is all intergrated into one wiring system - and amazingly it too is fully compatable with DCC.
The issue is that my system provides such easy and streamlined control of multiple trains, greatly reducing the importance of that aspect of DCC. When that is combined with my lack of interest in sound, DCC has little to offer.
I also said earlier DCC would make extra work for me - here are the reasons why:
I'm building a complex signal and CTC system anyway, even with DCC I would need most of the same wiring for the CTC, signaling and turnout control, the few extra wires for routing power to the track sections (blocks) are insignificant.
I model the 50's and as such most of my diesels are run in matched sets. Matched sets of DC locos run just fine together with out DCC speed matching and the like, especially pulling trains of the size I pull.
The story with steam is similar, it is actually easy to run double or triple headed steam with DC, I have outlined this many times on this forum, so has Doctor Wayne.
DCC would change all that. Unless every one of my Proto2000 FA's (I have 15 of them) had the same decoder, it is unlikely they would all MU together without speed matching as they do now. Mixing sound and non sound units complicates speed matching even more - no thank you.
So not only would I have to purchase and install 120 decoders, I would have to have some sort wild speed matching marathon/system or settle for speed matching sets and being more restricted then I am now.
I know lots of guys in DCC, I have helped install DCC system, and operated on a lot of DCC layouts, most of which are pretty large. I know all the advantages and disadvantages of DCC - for me, its just more work and money for features I don't need.
However, again, I do understand that my approach, my goals, and my tastes are outside the mainstream and that for a great number of modelers, DCC has a lot ot offer. The biggest irony of that is that many of those who preach the virtures of DCC most, use only the smallest number of its features.
mlehman Dennis, Nice building. The finishing really helps it stand out Sheldon, In terms of pricing, I was speaking of MSRP in general terms. Many new locos run in the $200 range in DC, with another $100 if you want factory DCC/sound. But it's a general argument, not one about specific locos or the fact that you still get more DC for your dollar. On the other hand, Bachmann is pushing the costs of DCC/sound down, first gen chips are still available dirt cheap (no thank you, but they're good enough for some), and it's likely the intro of the WOW 3rd gen decoder will push a 3rd gen Tsunami to market sooner rather than later. This will push pricing on 2nd gen decoders down and for many people the sound experience is satisfactory although I know YMMV on that, too. Then there's the used decoder market, which will only expand as current users upgrade to improved performance. My point is that if one wants to dream of pursuing any particular aspect of model railroading -- with the possible exception of the pure brass collector -- with careful budgeting, reasonable expectations, smart shopping, and being willing to learn a few skills, don't let the idea it will be too expensive dissaude you. There's almost always a way to afford it.
Mike, I agree the landscape is constantly changing and I don't pretend for a minute that everyone, or anyone, should do what I do.
And I agree completely with you assement that any goal can be reached with sound planing and reasonable expectations.
Today it seems so many new people go at this hobby all "willy nilly" and then wonder why it does not work out so well? No matter what some people want, it is a technical and mechanical hobby and as such is going to require some level of technical and mechanical skill.
The more you refine those skills, and the more you narrow your goals, the more money you can save.
So, now that we have the fact that DC and DCC is a personal choice and that either system is affordable for the model railroader. Maybe we can get back to ideas that will save money?
I was very sad to see that Floquil and Poly Scale paints where going to stop being produced. In my opinion, these where the best paints produced for painting model railroad stuff. However, many years ago I started using acrylic paints that I could find in my local craft store. In fact in my small town, there are several stores which sell these types of paints. Cermcoat is one manufacturer of this type of product. These paints come in a multitude of colors, lots of natural colors: greens earth tones, etc., are priced about the same as Poly Scale/Floquil; but, you are getting twice as much paint. These paints are great for painting scenery and using for washes and weathering. Add a little water to thin and clean up with soap and water. Very easy and quick to use. I don’t know anything about spraying these paints as I don’t hace a spray set-up.
richhotrainI actually have two of those freight offices plus two of the companion freight houses. But, instead of kitbashing, I would rather scratch build it, thus my interest in this thread. JaBear may be onto it with those windows and doors from Tichy and Grandt. Still, where do you start? Richa
Richa
I have actually made a smaller warehouse similar to what you have shown which you could make cheaply printing on sticker A4 paper then mounting on foamcore, got for nix from photo framers here in Australia anyway. I can show an example at
http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=9679&forum_id=14&page=2
Where I took a couple of Tomkats buildings and made them three dimensional. The "Miracle Furniture Co" Building could be made into just a flat low relief in a short length to fit your scene. If you want the originals just PM me,
Regards from Oz
Trevor
Lots of good ideas and suggestions here, but folks, let's keep it on topic. "How to scratchbuild" should be its own thread -- especially "How to scratchbuild particular building X". Let's also not have another debate on the cost-worthiness of DCC, in this thread or any other. And I don't remember appointing anyone as Forum Judge to pronounce verdicts on the merits of other people's posts. Keep your opinions of your fellow forum members to yourself, please. Thanks.
Here are a few pics of a still in progress car shop I started a few years ago for my current layout......
Started with a basic drawing......I`m still old school with pencil and paper.
Some raw pieces of styrene sheet.....board & batten siding.
Cut outs made for windows......Grandt Line.
Windows made with castings and styrene angle.
Another view of windows.
A mock-up of the building.
Another view of the mock-up.
And a view of it on the layout.
I agree with NP at least for the crowd that sees my layout I use the cheap walmart apple barrel paint for most of my scenery and for weathering as well. The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example) By freelancing I can make the Staten Island West colors anything I want.
I have exactly one bottle of Railroad Tie Brown I picked up at a train show for rusting rails and the like. But the acrylic works for that too.
Joe Staten Island West
joe323The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example)
If you haven't tried mixing things a little, that's sometimes worth a stab. If you haven't a basic art background that gives you the info needed to "push" colors in different directions, that's worth a look to start with. But a drop here or there can really work wonders in matching paint. And as you note, you'll be money ahead with these colors, which make them cheap enough to experiment with, too.
Usually it's recommended to stay with the same brand when doing this, to avoid any incompatible formulations, but a little experimentation with a little of each should tell you if that will be a factor. Generally, acrylic is acrylic, but I suspect there's other proprietary stuff from time to time that may cause issues. Sometimes it self-curdles on its own
mlehman joe323 The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example) If you haven't tried mixing things a little, that's sometimes worth a stab. If you haven't a basic art background that gives you the info needed to "push" colors in different directions, that's worth a look to start with. But a drop here or there can really work wonders in matching paint. And as you note, you'll be money ahead with these colors, which make them cheap enough to experiment with, too. Usually it's recommended to stay with the same brand when doing this, to avoid any incompatible formulations, but a little experimentation with a little of each should tell you if that will be a factor. Generally, acrylic is acrylic, but I suspect there's other proprietary stuff from time to time that may cause issues. Sometimes it self-curdles on its own
joe323 The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example)
rrebell mlehman joe323 The crowd that sees my layout doesn't care if the shade of yellow in the CSX logo is slighly off (for example) If you haven't tried mixing things a little, that's sometimes worth a stab. If you haven't a basic art background that gives you the info needed to "push" colors in different directions, that's worth a look to start with. But a drop here or there can really work wonders in matching paint. And as you note, you'll be money ahead with these colors, which make them cheap enough to experiment with, too. Usually it's recommended to stay with the same brand when doing this, to avoid any incompatible formulations, but a little experimentation with a little of each should tell you if that will be a factor. Generally, acrylic is acrylic, but I suspect there's other proprietary stuff from time to time that may cause issues. Sometimes it self-curdles on its own If you don't know how to mix, just try by starting with two batches of color (say your yellow) and add a bit of black to one and white to the other. See how things change, Add a bit more and so on to get a feel for things and remember I used the two far ends of the spectrum. I tend to use more greys and browns than black and on the other side, more off whites to ivory and of course any color can be added to change the original.
If you don't know how to mix, just try by starting with two batches of color (say your yellow) and add a bit of black to one and white to the other. See how things change, Add a bit more and so on to get a feel for things and remember I used the two far ends of the spectrum. I tend to use more greys and browns than black and on the other side, more off whites to ivory and of course any color can be added to change the original.
Interesting never really thought about it
joe323Interesting never really thought about it
Yeah, sometimes it's best not to overthink the art thing...ask me how I know http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/231838.aspx?page=1
In fact, past a few basic points, most of my better artistic endeavors come out the more I don't think too hard about them. I'd encourage you to simply experiment some and see how you like the results. If the first time doesn't come out too well, give some time and try again. That's a lot like weathering is for me, really sort of an advanced version of the same basic task of adding color to make something more believable.
I have not read all responses so pardon any repetition.
Depending upon your interests, a layout that runs one, two, or three trains is going to be a lot less expensive than a layout that runs many. Locomotives are some of the most expensive components of a layout, so a theme that minimizes the amount of locos needed is obviously going to be cheaper than the alternative.
Buying second hand stuff at train shows is a good way to get stuff cheaper. Inspect the items carefully and even remove them from the box. Less than honest sellers have been known to put the side of the item that has blemishes on the back side.
I like to search ebay or shows for less than complete building kits. They usually go cheaply, and since most of my buildings are kitbashed, these incomplete kits make good fodder.
- Douglas
Need some CA? Here's where it pays to NOT buy the biggest bottle, unless you have a huge project that will be continuously worked on. I've found a pack of a dozen tiny tubes at the big box stores, it costs slightly more but every one gets used up before it dries up, so I'm wasting a LOT less adhesive.
I disagree. I bought the largest bottle of gap filling CA over 2 years ago. I keep it in the refrigerator and it flows as well as the day I bought it. I also bought a spray bottle of accelerant to speed up the curing process.
" I bought the largest bottle of gap filling CA over 2 years ago. I keep it in the refrigerator and it flows as well as the day I bought it."
Unfortunately, my wife has banned all products unrelated to food from our fridge. I tried to put a paint brush in a plastic bag once and boy, did I get an earfull! Same thing for the oven (ended up buying a small one just for my painting projects). Dollar store CA in mini tubes works well for me. It's not as strong as the real stuff, but I actually prefer that: mistakes are easier to fix. Cheers!
snjroyUnfortunately, my wife has banned all products unrelated to food from our fridge.
Sounds like your shop area has a need for a dedicated minifridge. It'll also keep those beverages cold and handy.
snjroy " I bought the largest bottle of gap filling CA over 2 years ago. I keep it in the refrigerator and it flows as well as the day I bought it." Unfortunately, my wife has banned all products unrelated to food from our fridge. I tried to put a paint brush in a plastic bag once and boy, did I get an earfull! Same thing for the oven (ended up buying a small one just for my painting projects). Dollar store CA in mini tubes works well for me. It's not as strong as the real stuff, but I actually prefer that: mistakes are easier to fix. Cheers!
Small refrigerators aren't that expensive! You can keep a samitch, your beer and soda in there with your CA! As long as you're O.K. with your lips being glued to your beer can every now and then! Eventually the oils in your skin will cause the can to fall off. Don’t attempt to jerk the can from your mouth! This can be painful!
Seriously, a properly fitting cap on your CA is a must! Your wife has nothing to worry; or, complain about, CA bottles don’t take up much room.
Some ideas for cheapskates by cheapskates...
When I walk...I squick...
Curb side shopping...
Rest assurded you are in very good company.
These suggestions are for HO Scale, but will work in other scales as well.
Soda Straws, you know from the Golden Arches...
They make excellent gondola and flat car loads.
One thing though, I never really had good success in painting same with Floquil Poly-Scale. If you brushed paint would not fully cover, same with airbrushing.
Must be the plastic. Anybody had success in painting and using some type of "primer" or plastic compatble primer to get paint to hold?
Match sticks, whether small or kitchen match type. Makes good shipment blocking for loads.
Tooth picks. Make good size fence post.
Let see...
Long wooden cotton swabs. The type medical personel use for numorus proceedures. Cut the cotton head off and you have some nice size utility poles.
3M Brand Scotch Tape Spools. Make excelent flat car and gondola loads for simulating various steel fabrication parts, you immagination is the limit.
A long out of print Kalmbach Book, was as I recall 764 Hints for Model Railroading. These were short story projects that appeared in MR during the 1940's through 1970's.
Excellent Miser Projects!
Run Eight Some ideas for cheapskates by cheapskates... When I walk...I squick... Curb side shopping... Rest assurded you are in very good company. These suggestions are for HO Scale, but will work in other scales as well. Soda Straws, you know from the Golden Arches... They make excellent gondola and flat car loads. One thing though, I never really had good success in painting same with Floquil Poly-Scale. If you brushed paint would not fully cover, same with airbrushing. Must be the plastic. Anybody had success in painting and using some type of "primer" or plastic compatble primer to get paint to hold? Match sticks, whether small or kitchen match type. Makes good shipment blocking for loads. Tooth picks. Make good size fence post. Let see... Long wooden cotton swabs. The type medical personel use for numorus proceedures. Cut the cotton head off and you have some nice size utility poles. 3M Brand Scotch Tape Spools. Make excelent flat car and gondola loads for simulating various steel fabrication parts, you immagination is the limit. A long out of print Kalmbach Book, was as I recall 764 Hints for Model Railroading. These were short story projects that appeared in MR during the 1940's through 1970's. Excellent Miser Projects!
The book might be out of print but still available. More than one too so after I order mine there will be some left. Googled it.
T e d
I recycle Brita water filter elements, or rather the contents. These are the filter elements used in the containers for water pitchers in the refrigerator.
I let the used filter dry out for a while in the basement. In the end of each filter are 4 small screens used to retain the contents. Cut the screens out with a #11 blade, shake the element over a container, and you end up with a little pile of coal.
Run EightSoda Straws, you know from the Golden Arches... They make excellent gondola and flat car loads. One thing though, I never really had good success in painting same with Floquil Poly-Scale. If you brushed paint would not fully cover, same with airbrushing. Must be the plastic. Anybody had success in painting and using some type of "primer" or plastic compatble primer to get paint to hold?
I tried painting floral tubes and had the same poor result. And I was spray painting. The paint just came off as I handled the tubes. And they didn't take glue well, either. I agree it must be the type of plastic.
Did you try dragging the straw through a tube of sandpaper to rough it up a little? The finish on a straw is pretty smooth.
NittanyLion Did you try dragging the straw through a tube of sandpaper to rough it up a little? The finish on a straw is pretty smooth.
Only other thing I could think of would be that paint for RC car bodies that is more of a plastic dye than paint
How about a paint like Floquil, the solvent type.
rrebellHow about a paint like Floquil, the solvent type.
That's the type I was using. Bad result.
I make pipe loads to sell, and was looking at the floral tubes as a possible eonomical way to form the pipe. I wanted to use a three-across by three-high configuration, so that required me to adhere the tubes into groups of three. Then I wanted to paint the tubes as a group. Neither CA nor Plastruct plastic weld would attach the tubes to each other. And the paint just rubbed off.
I ended up biting the bullet and using Evergreen styrene.
Sounds like the straws had some kind of Teflon compound in it.
Interesting answers on painting plastic soda straws!
Never tried ruffing up with 120 grit sandpaper and or steel wool.
I'll take a look through some back issues of MR, the Dollar Model Series on plastic soda straws for pipe loads and painting.
Let me do some digging. Thrink this appeared in 1976 issue?
Yep, I think that the old solvent base Floquil, would turn the plastic into a component for Napalm (Military Ordanence).
Which leeds to a question.
Derlin Plastic Painting.
If my memory is on the up and up, years ago I remember reading a very similar story on paint not adhereing to same.
Again it was a MR short article on what to prime with.
Any readers remember the article and solution to the problem?
There are products that the auto body trade uses that prep plastic and improve adhesion. I vaguely recall it was some sort of model RR specific product that was used on the delrin, but it may simply have been a repackaged form of one of the auto body products.
I have seen soda straws that are basically composed of paper. These might work better.
1) I am going to slightly disagree with those who suggest buying the little tubes of CA at home centers...because I did exactly that for the same reason (cost, and I figured I'd use up the tube before it went bad). Sadly, whatever brand (I don't recall) the Big Orange stocks seems to have the holding strength of warm spit, way weaker than the original Crazy stuff from the 1970s. I went back to the big hobby bottles, and so far the gap-filler has behaved itself over many projects since I wipe the nozzle after use.2) Those mentioning acrylic craft paints and airbrushing, I have been watching a number of videos on just that, and particularly like Chris Chapman's channel (yes, he does model cars and airplane - so what, it's all plastic underneath - and he does do weathering). THe other channel I watch often (there are many others) is the infamous Doctor Cranky, who claims we are on the cusp of a revolution in airbrushing techniques (well, he says a lot of things really, but his work is pretty cool looking. Actually we rarely see him do any airbrushing, perhaps his dog Eyegore does the real work. His big thing is "layers", translucent paint in multiple layers).Anyway as the weather gets colder and I need to work inside, and I finally resolved the windex vs windshield fluid debate, I'll find out firsthand how this turns out...
Several ways to save money:
Be happy with good enough. Don't go primo on everything.
Clearly define what you want out of your layout, and don't buy stuff that doesn't fit in with what you want your layout to represent.. i.e. if you're modelling IA in the late 70s, don't buy a Big Boy.
Time is money too. Unless you're retired and have alot of time on your hands don't waste your precious time building stuff that you can buy on the cheap. A $50.00 station is cheaper than a year of your precious time scratch building plus raw materials and tools. Remember... be happy with good enough.
Keep it simple... you don't need five bridges and ten tunnels when one of each will do. Two nice structures are better than 10 lousy ones. Single track is cheaper than double. Keep the wiring simple. You don't need 20 engines when two or three will do.
I used a plastic tub of Duncan Hines frosting to make the tank for the Hess complex. I covered it with grey steel texture printed for $1.99 off the Clever Paper site and used the mesh from some left over needle point to make a safety fence.
joe323I used a plastic tub of Duncan Hines frosting to make the tank for the Hess complex...
Riffing off Joe's tip, here the first of two of mine. I used a pill bottle to make a vertical diesel fuel tank for the enginehouse in Silverton. I cut the funny childproof latch and part of the top rim of the typical yellow transparent pill bottle. Then I used masking tape built up with overlapping layers to simulate the weld seams on each course of the tank. Then I added a ladder, vent, and access hatch. Sparyed with silver paint and done.
My other tip is one that should prove popular with all who are like me, seeing the eyesight fade some as age takes its toll. I happened to be paging through MR and came across one of several ads I've seen that modify Optivisors with LED lighting -- a great idea, but it seems I always spend the money on other stuff.
Reading the ad, it suddenly occurred to me that I could make one -- and you can, too. Total cost? About $9.
I admit it's not as pretty as the RTR version, but this one works just fine. You may even decide to buy one of the several versions of stgore-bought ones available after using thuis once.
The lights and battery box/controller are from a Rice Light LED string that can be found at Hobby Lobby year-around and other retailers right now. I've used the miniature LED strings for lighting on the layout, but just had this brain storm today.
The optivisor is slick plastic. I used gapfilling CA and it worked OK. I may have to epoxy it to really hold well. Be careful with any adhesives around the lens to not mar them. For the powerpack, I used Velcro to attach it to one temple of the visor.
A 23 year olds suggestions-
The spools in registers? They make good concrete pipes for drainage.
Need brick supports? Cut a chunk of pink foam to a square. Take a scale ruler and measure the dimensions of a brick. Take a square, and use a pen to cut the bricks out. When done, paint with a stone gray pigment.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Good topic,my train budget roughly amounts to about 20.0 a month, luckily i have a lot of stuff that i reuse ( turn outs etc)
the orange heavy duty cords are great sources for layout wire. my friend had thrown out a 50' foot cord because the dog had chewed on it in places. so i was short on cash and needed wire so i took the cord home cut off the ends and peeled back the insulation wow theres 3 pieces of wire 50' feet long each, i have used it for bus wires,turnouts feeders. for attaching to the small screws i just peel back the strands to i get the size wire i need and cut the uneeded off
I also reuse short sections of track by soldering them together to the length i need, the smallest pices being about 1-2 inches, also i reuse rail joiners, the looser ones i use on sidings the tight ones where electical current is needed.
paint i use is mostly craft paint from walmart and spray paint from walmart, the most expensive being the rust oleum camoflage. i buy 1 inch foam brushes when they go on sale at Michaels, for cement i use the gel control lok tite
Refusing to pay more than $10 (really $5) for a HO scale vehicle I have been going to antique malls (the ones with individual booths by individual owners) in search of vehicles. Many I find are not real detailed and some are not exactly HO scale but close enough for my needs. Some don't even have interiors (good for junkyards) but I have been buying them for $1-$3 each. On a budget you can outfit your layout with 25-30 vehicles for under $100 instead of $300 or more.
Another great source of vehicles on the cheap is the line that Ertl sells that costs in the $5 range. Many are too large for m HO, really being closer to S for the most part. But they always seem to manage to get something at or close to HO scale in the mix. The local Farm and Fleet has an Ertl display in their toy section that is periodically restocked. There are almost always new items added when thta's done, so keep checking back.
mlehman Another great source of vehicles on the cheap is the line that Ertl sells that costs in the $5 range. Many are too large for m HO, really being closer to S for the most part. But they always seem to manage to get something at or close to HO scale in the mix. The local Farm and Fleet has an Ertl display in their toy section that is periodically restocked. There are almost always new items added when thta's done, so keep checking back.
On the other end I like the 2004 Hess tanker trucks that I get at train shows for $8 each Slightly smaller than HO but they look great on the layout as part of a fuel facility.
UlrichBe happy with good enough. Don't go primo on everything
That's really all there is to say. You can make a nice looking town off of life-like building kits and some paint. (newer) Bachmann engines are good enough to pull a train with.
I go back and forth between bouts of model trains and Magic: The Gathering. Both hobbies are prohibitvely expensive, but the trick is setting realistic expectations. I try to buy used lower end when I can get away with it.
I don't notice the difference between molded on handrails and metal ones. My wallet prefers one though, and I can use that to my advantage - I can pick up 3 freight cars for the price of one "premium" one.
I also try to buy the right stuff at the right time. When the new Walthers Amtube cars came out at $80 a pop, I was able to pick up a used 4 car set of Bachmann Silver Series ones for $12 a pop. With the money savd, I picked up a E60CP and a 5th car, for less then the price of 2 new cars. I sacrificed a little bit of detail and realism for a lot of money in my pocket.
I limit myself, and try - try - not to buy things if I have a backlog of other things. If I have an engine on my work bench, there's no reason to buy parts for another engine. I may not get to it for a year or two, and by that point I've lost the parts I bought.
If I keep myself to older rolling stock and Athearn passenger cars, I can use 22" curves as the norm - less space required, less track to buy. I only own a single car that has a 'suggested' 24" minimum radius, while it doesn't look amazing, the difference between 22" and 36" radii is profound on the budget.
The theme you see here is expectations. (Up until I moved and pulled it all down) I had expectations of a 'fun' railroad, not a 'realistic empire'. My rolling stock was mostly low end, and with the exception of a few *very* expensive "named trains" by keeping my costs low, I was able to do a lot for a little.
I have buttered up the management of local gas stations and stores for their sheet styrene. I have a pile of different thicknesses of sheet styrene at home about 2' tall.
Coffee stir sticks make for some decent looking guardrails
I grind my own ground foam cover. Grab chunks of foam and "oops" paint from the home improvement stores for around $3-5 a gallon. Squeeze the foam in the paint and keep squeezing it to work the paint to the core. Let it dry and hit it with a wire wheel in a variable speed drill.
I get my "shakers" from resteraunts..just ask for their bulk spice shakers
Got an old DVD or CD player that took a crap...Tear into it. There is a bunch of gears, some small electric motors etc..
I use the rubberbands for braces (metal mouth) for securing loads to flatcars..looks like a giant ratchet strap
I do ALOT of outside the box thinking...Im always looking and thinking if I can use that before I get rid of it....Good lUck and keep it cheap
Jeff
Bought a box of Clementine oranges today. The box is made of very thin plywood sheets with four triangular corner braces. Great scratchbuilding material and the price is right ($0) when compared with scale lumber.
For trees, I got to Walmart (or similar) stores after Christmas when everything is 50% off or more. The trees have white snow on them, so I buy a can of green spray paint, and paint them green. I found this to be a very inexpensive way to get pine trees for the layout.
mlehmanAnother great source of vehicles on the cheap is the line that Ertl sells that costs in the $5 range. Many are too large for m HO, really being closer to S for the most part. But they always seem to manage to get something at or close to HO scale in the mix.
I found a couple of close to HO tractors in the Ertl display over the last couple of weeks.
One is this nice John Deere. No model number indicated, but in HO the size is about right for tractors in the range from the 4020 to the 5020, both of whcih I spent plenty of quality time with in my youth. This one is more modern than those, but works as a standin.
The front tires seem like they've shrunk or the rims are on steroids, but a nice model for less than $5. Here's a size comparison to a semi.
Earlier, I found a red International tractor. I think this was the original Cub before they went yellow-orange for more suburban uses. If so, it's really too large, but still makes a nice generic IH in HO. I've lined it up next to the JD and a Ford pickup for size comparison.
Got several of both of these. Here in Texas they are sold at Tractor Supply stores.
eaglescout Got several of both of these. Here in Texas they are sold at Tractor Supply stores.
Mine were found at Farm & Fleet, a regional retail chain based out of Wisconsin.
I agree. I always get a pair, so I can make an open load out of them in addition to on-layout uses.
It's really too bad more aren't close to HO, as 90%+ really are S scale or larger. Good for S scale, though, those guys neeed every break they can get. Vehicles are one of the strong suits for S scale.
I don't recall, but expect it's already been mentioned -- never throw anything away unless you're sure it's completely useless. A good scrap box can be the frugal modeler's source for many projects. I actually have multiple scrap boxes for materials and parts, somewhat organized so I can find things, mostly.
Case in point, as I sorted through some stuff from the many laser kits I've built in the last couple of years, was this group of representative selections.
Starting in the upper left is a nice piece of clapboard siding leftover from a Raggs---to Riches Durango station kit. More than enough for several small buildings, it's even already painted and is peel-n-stick.
Clockwise to the right are some leftover board-and-batten siding pieces, also enough for a small structure or two.
Below that with several different shades of examples are frets from thicker wood. The remains can provide lots of pieces of stick lumber.
The lower left corner has a couple of thick "frames" that make good foundations for small structures.
Finally, above the frames are various architecturally useful items like the end frames for roofs and various other angles.
I just happened to build a couple of small structures, a station and a shelter, which use hardly anything new. In this case, I used a Grandt Line door and window castings. I'm still detailing them, but here's a couple of pics.
Summit
Camp 10
I was helping a friend on modifying a second level of his layout having a tunnel, got all the scenery in place but no Tunnel Portal plaster casting on hand, so made one out of a piece of Foam Core.
A Southern Pacific Common Standard Plan was used for a concrete Tunnel Portal drawn out in HO Scale on the Foam Core material. I drew light pencil lines where the 12 inch wide boards were used as the forms. wooden. Then with a metal straight edge and a Xacto blade, retrace the pencil lines cutting through the top part of the cardboard but not into the Foam.
Use a scale 12 inch wide piece of styrene to press onto the Foam Core cut lines pushing in here and there along the portal wall. Doing this will give realistic form lines. A foot wide piece of HO Scale wood was glued to top front of the portal and painted with a "concrete color" flat Latex indoor paint. Little weathering and it was in place within 20 minutes.
This method also works great for Retaining Walls. Cheap too!
Bruce Petty
I had to go take a picture of it.
Fences, railings, steps, fancy work, ladders....
LION uses this plastic hobby material used (I suppose) for embroidry or something. It is cheap enough, and with a knife you can cut away the parts that do not look like your railing. The more carefully you cut and finish the better it looks. And it takes paint real well. (LION uses a plastic compatible spray paint).ROAR
One of my favorite money-saving tricks when detailing locomotives is to make my own lift rings. Exactrail, Detail Associates and others all make lift rings, but they're often expensive, coming out to about a dollar apiece. Too much for a few inches of wire, if you ask me. I make my own with thin, solid-core wire from burned out 1.5 volt microbulbs. (The ones in Athearn locos won't work, as they use stranded wire). First loop the wire around a drill bit in a pin vise (I use a No. 77 bit), then twist the ends of the wire that hang down together until the wire is snug all around the bit. trim off the excess wire, leaving about 1/8" (I use a pair of cheap squizzers), slide the ring off the bit, then install like a normal lift ring. Once installed, I can't tell the difference between homemade & storebought, and that little trick saves me about $10. per loco.
-Sebastien Bolle
Unnecessary meta-discussion about bumping this thread back to the top of the first page has been removed. Now it can go back to where it falls naturally, and it won't go to the top unless people keep... uh... replying to...
D'OH!
No hobby is cheap and I have 3 of them, model trains in 2 scales, RC cars and antique garden tractors. Of the later 2, I have what I want and only need to spend money when I break something or need fuel for the tractor. The trains, well I am a model railroader in the wrong century! I like my engines to be brass, and my freight cars to be kits, mostly craftsman kits. I am blessed with a shop nearby that gets in lots of estates, so older brass and car kits abound. I paid less for my PFM 2 truck Climax geared logging engine than I can buy one of the new fangled PRR H10 2-8-0s. No it doesnt have sound or DCC, but it could if I wanted it. I chose to limit my modeling to my fav prototype of a run down logging line with 2 engines, a few logging skel's and a bobber caboose. I run 2 PFM/United geared engines, one 2 truck class B Shay and I just purchased a 2 truck Class C Climax. I put my major investment in 2 really good and reliable engines that have proven themselves over the years. I use a tried and true MRC Golden Throttlepack to control my trains. I have had it since I was 15 and I am 41 now. By never failing, it has paid for itself many times over. I had DCC and a quite a large collection of plastic and brass all equipted with sound and DCC. Then my family went thru some hard times, so I sold it to keep bills paid. As I start to rebuild my layout, I am doing it on the less=more theme. Invest the most in the engines, and even then its less per engine than anything close to it new on the market, and much more reliable than the plastic geared power out there. Probably my biggest investment will be my own time, making trees. As long as your having fun, its money well spent! Mikie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
This cheap trick has been around for awhile but I made it even cheaper by using cheap wood, instead of stripwood. I made six loads for about $1. These were done as raw ties and mine props. I'll make some more that are stained to represent treated ties. Here are some completed loads and my tie mill at Crater Lake.
They consist of a small scrap of foam, with the underside of the ends chamfered so you can push down to cause it to pop up, like this...
The wood is a small part of a package of craft wood sticks, cut to size. I used Titebond III to glue it on. I popped each one out of the car I made it in to finish drying. Best to build them in the car -- careful with that glue! -- so they fit right later on with minimal fuss.
I am sorry they un-pinned this thread as I like keeping up on it.
joe323 I am sorry they un-pinned this thread as I like keeping up on it.
Joe,
At the very top of each page of comments you should see a button that says "Subscribe to this thread." Click it and you will receive notice each time there is a new comment/reply posted.
I like your tie loads, gives me an idea for another industry on my future logging layout. Great idea. Mikie
Mikie,
Thanks
Yeah, tie cutting, mine props, fence posts, poles are all great supplements to the standard logging industry props. These sorts of raw material operations were often done by contractors, rather than the lumber company, but were often managed by it. The work especially well on the model RR, because you can set them in in very little space at a siding, require minimal facilities, and can be moved around at will, as they often were in real life. Loading a single car at a time is also quite plausible.
BTW, the tie mill is from Woodland Scenics. The kit has been available for a long time, but I think they recently made it available as a built-up model. It includes a small treatment tub that holds one or two ties at a time, but no external pressure to force the treatment into the wood.
Here, I ship the raw ties off the layout to the full-scale treatment plant that uses large chambers to force the treatment into large batches of wood at a time. Most of the cars I ship the raw timber out on come back empty, but a few come back with treated ties, poles, and other products for local use.
mlehman joe323 I am sorry they un-pinned this thread as I like keeping up on it. Joe, At the very top of each page of comments you should see a button that says "Subscribe to this thread." Click it and you will receive notice each time there is a new comment/reply posted.
Mike thank you I did that.
I have built a very inexpensive LNG fuel tender for my locomotives. What I did was I took an old locomotive frame and fitted a .080 piece of scrap plastic under the walkway. I then fitted a piece of .040 plastic between the walkways to make the center even with the walkways. MT truck were added. I used some 5/8 inch PVC pipe cut to a lenght a little onger than the ends of the walkways. I purchased a package of Plastruct VHE20 ellipical ends. I enclosed the fuel tank using .040 plasic. Made a bottom for the fuel tank which I filled with lead. I attached MT1015 couplers and made pilots for the ends of the car. I added the appropriate additional weight to the car in the tank and then glued the tank ends on. Afte painting the car is now ready for decaling. Total cost was $3.71. Here is a photo of the car.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gsrrman/16351015922/
GP-9_Man11786 I think following Allen McClelland's "good enough" philosophy can save you a bit of money too. McClelland himself even said if a structure is only visible from the front, "then why do you want to finish the back of it?" No point in wasting money on details nobody is going to see.
God's Best & Happy Rails to You!
Bing (RIPRR The Route of the Buzzards)
The future: Dead Rail Society
I won't make this thread Sticky again, but if people are still interested in it, here it is...
Thanks Steve!
How about a link to the active thread on CHEAP containers?
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/245741.aspx
Note: Thanks to Cuyama for the info on how to activate this!
EDITED...
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
ricktrains4824 Thanks Steve! How about a link to the active thread on FREE containers? http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/245741.aspx
How about a link to the active thread on FREE containers?
Some of them cost me chump change...
LensCapOn ricktrains4824 Thanks Steve! How about a link to the active thread on FREE containers? http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/245741.aspx Hey! It's not just free containers on that thread. Some of them cost me chump change...
Hey! It's not just free containers on that thread.
It depends on where you buy the brand and whether you want a specific name on your containers.
For example most of my containers have garden variety names Maresk Sealand P & O etc so I picked them up at a train show where they were $5 or so. But the Zim containers were hard to find and I ended up buying some at Train world for about $29 for 4 units. On the other end I picked up a few Matson containers for $2 or $3 on ebay.
Also I made copies of the containers on my scanner to put in the backdrop.
Ok. So cheap down to free..... Didn't want to steal the link from you... Count paper, ink, time, even the "free" ones are not really free.... But, from the link, free downloads.... Or, multiples from the "chump change" ones. Still, way cheaper than the average anyway you slice it. Just wasn't going to steal your thunder, so thought the link to the thread was better.
Edited prior post with link....
Plan before you build or buy so you don't waste time/money.
Lower expectations to a realistic level. I thought I'd be able to model a highly detailed small layout but the more I researched the prototype, the more I realized that even 'standard' rolling stock and locos aren't standard at all...everything seems to be slightly different so I have settled on the "arms' length" rule...with really dark sunglasses on...in a snowstorm.lol If it looks good under those circumstances, it's good enough for me.
http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5
SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io
I still think this thread is worthwhile, and I will bump it up one more time.
A review of the many great posts should be helpful.
Some of the common ideas include
Making a budget and following it.
Plan ahead.
Scratch building
Fixing up and upgrading old trains.
Buying used locomotives, rolling stock and track.
Using materials that are commonly used for non-model-railroad purposes.
..... There are many more good thoughts.
Each of you who posted your ideas deserves credit.
Heres a few cheapies:
1) Next time your at McDonalds, grab some of the souffle cups and lids. Make great little parts holders for tiny things. Like rods pins, handrail stantions, detail parts, etc.. Or, just get your kid to get a few when they leave work.
They also make great mixing/measuring (if you have a scale, and you should) cups for your own castings when you only need a tiny amount of medium. And with the lid (with tiny holes added [ dont forget the air hole!]) on, can be used to pour very, very, tiny streams into the smallest of part molds.
(note to casters: if any air bubbles are in your mix, pouring through such a tiny hole the air bubble strikes the sides of the hole thus releasing the bubble from the medium)
And for those of you who get frustrated messing with those real tiny Kadee coupler springs, here is a great way to store them. And spear them when you wanna pick them up without them flying into unknown space. The lid helps too if needed. I use an X-Acto knife to load/remove mine. Works like a blessed charm! With lid off, stick knife with spring into cup, put on the lid as best you can, slide knife out. Lid captures the spring and it falls into the cup with the rest. Finish afixxing the lid to cup for storage. No more carpet quests to find the missing spring!
2) Paper towel rolls make great places to store your long handrails. That is after youve used all the towels ofcourse. Also great for factory stacks (vertical) or sewer pipes (horizontal) depending on scale. You cant beat them for tree placement in the woods either. Meaning: say you have a forrest of trees. You want to put on in wheres theres a slight clear area to do so but its smaller than your tree is in diameter. As long as its close, slide your tree in one end until its ready to come out the other. Slide tube into clear area. Put tree into place. Remove tube. Fluff new tree to interweave branches with others around it for a natural growth look.
3) Dont just scrap that old puter for a new one, i mean really scrap it! The wiring inside puters is the same gauge we use in model railroading. Not to mention that old hard drive, or cd/dvd player that wont read/write anymore but still spins??? Take the motor out of that puppy! These can make great little automated device drives for your layout. Good thing is puters run on DC voltage at 5 or 12 volts. Same ratings we use in MRing. Yes this means you can use the LEDs, switches, and buttons too. Take every nibbon and nobbin off that puppy and reuse it! Mice are the best for buttons! Bad thing is here, its usually the button that fails making the mouse bad. So this one is 50/50. Oh, and dont forget the optics! That is for you light activated signalling/block occupancy/grade crossing detector users. Rip them out (carefully) and use them!
4) Pizza boxes make great storage boxes for models. Just make sure you get them BEFORE the pizza is added.
5) That $5000 posture pedic bed not living up to its claims (mine sure didnt!)? Well, those things have so much packing foam in them you can pack a hobby shop up with the stuff! Great liner material for storage boxes. (yes, this is where my bed is now. And my back felt better right away and so did my stored trains). Im not kidding, my particular bed had 4 different foam widths in it. Since i was replacing it anyways.... nice repayment for the lost nights of sleep from being uncomfy!
6) Doller Tree. Fast becoming a model railroaders best supply house. Glass panes in all sizes up to 8.5x11" for a buck! Toothbrushes for parts cleaning.... one buck for 6 brushes! And for those who use brake fluid for stripping, one buck gets you a quart as opposed to $5 at an auto parts place. Metal boxes for casting/ storing parts, in all shapes and sizes for a buck! No more making a casing for your molds. Picture hanging kits. Toss the stuff inside and use the small 6 or 8 compartment plastic box it came in. More parts storage! I am thinking Kadees here.
7) A free lump of coal off the side of the tracks when pulverized down to tiny pebbles (scale size) then washed, then sprayed with laquer (or a clear clothes protectant like waterproofing) makes great looking coal loads. But then, so do the granules that work free from your black shingle roof that collect by the pile in your gutters. I recommend this tip for those NOT living under trees.
8) A boat load of household products when new, contain celephane/clear plastic in their packaging. Isnt that what we use for windows in our models? Dont just toss it in the trash after you open your whatever it is.... toss it in your MRing project bin like the rest of us hoarders do. Especially ththat Logitech mouse replacement you just got to replace the mouse you just scrapped after it failed. Those cases are all clear plastic, and very formidable in strength. Cut it to order, as needed.
9) Sometimes dear ole mom or your 'other' half (notice i didnt say 'better' half) might be so inclined as to be able to sew. And inside their kit of mischief-n-magic might be a spool of dark or black thread. If it was purchased only for a small fix and thus leaving the remaining amount uneeded.... well heck. This stuff makes great power lines, and even replacement cableing(sp) for those 200 ton cranes you might have.
10) and probably most important... a "friend" in model railroading. They cost nothing, are fun to have around, and are great things to have to share the hobby with, learn from, or better yet.... teach! And good graces willing they will last a life time without needing replacement, and theres no limit to how many you can have.
Bonus) Get yourself some Model Railroader . While this one doesnt usually come free when new. You can find them here and there for $0. Unfortunately, and sadly that this happens..... some leave the hobby. Some of those have been known to 'give away' MRing items. I find books are usually top of the free list.
Theres 11 Al Bundy style cheap ideas. Most are free. Some initially arent but....
My apologies if i have repeated anything posted by another.
PM Railfan
Here's my suggestion: Reset your attitudes/expectations/preferences.
About a month ago, I lamented in the Mad City Show thread about the number of "clean out your attic/garage/basement" sellers, since very little of that stuff was of any interest to me (or so I thought).
Fast forward to this past weekend, when at another show I decided to look over some of that "junk" because I had some time to kill before my next committment.
I noticed the corner of a circuit board peeking out, and dug out what appeared to be an intact EasyDCC Booster3. A quick visual exam showed that one of the output drivers appeared to have been replaced, but there were no other signs to indicate that any of the magic smoke had escaped.
So I offered the seller $5, because unless it was completely fried I'd probably be able to scavenge at least that value of spare parts. He countered with $8, and we had a deal.
There were no references to the Booster3 that I could find on the CVP web site, except a blurb that it was still repairable by them. But a little searching on the WayBack Machine got me the manual and the updated MR construction article. With that information, I was able to determine that the Booster3 works perfectly!
The moral of the story is that had I not "reset" my attitudes/expectations/preferences, I never would have looked at that "junk", and I never would have walked out of there with a perfectly functional 3-amp DCC booster for $8.
It's simple really:
1. Buy a model. Build a model. Don't allow yourself to buy another till the first is done.
2. Build the layout, then worry about the cars.
3. The quality of beginner engines is exceptional compared to the 80's and 90's. You can get a new good running Bachmann Diesel for $50 or less. F7's are particularly cheap because so many people make them.
4. Make a budget, and stick to it. 5. You don't need 50 engines if you don't have a layout to support them.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Make your own weathering powder. Rub ordinary school blackboard chalk on wire screen, or a food strainer, and presto, a nice white powder. Do some shopping and you can find colored chalk both in kid's sets, and at artist supply stores.
Likewise the old RIT dyed sawdust trick for grass still works. Any woodshop, home or commercial always has plenty of sawdust. Make two batches, one light green and one dark green. When sceniking, do the scenery with one color and then go back and accent it with the other color.
I just returned from Discount Model Trains (Addison TX) as we're visiting Fort Worth, with some spare time. I picked up another Tichy flat car, $7.16. And a Tichy ground jib crane kit, $4.76. And some JL Innovative Design Shell decorated oil barrels, $4.39 for five. And two Classic Metalworks automobiles for $11-12 each. I consider all these reasonably priced.
The most "value" may be in the flat car kit, as it will take me hours to build it. It may get a pickle car kit attached to the top, which is somewhere in the storage closet last time I looked. That was pricier, I recall, maybe $25.
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
DAVID FORTNEYWhat have you found?
All of P2K SCL Geeps(GP7/9/38-2) for less then $60.00 each.
P2K Ohio Central GP7 for $55.00
Atlas Classic SCL RS3 $70.00.
Atlas/Kato SCL RS11s for $45.00 each.
Genesie SCL GP9 with DCC/Sound for $130.00.
Add a Kato GP35,some older BB locomotives,a Bachmann Alco S4 with DCC/Sound and 2 Bachmann DCC 70 Tonners.
Several Atlas Precision Designed 50' boxcars new for $10.00 and several tank cars for !2-15.00 each found at a train show. I spent $90.00 that day on Atlas freight cars.
I lost count of the used Athearn and Roundhouse cars picked up for 3.00 without KD couplers and 5.00 with KD couplers and metal wheels at various train shows over the years.
Several of my Walthers cars was bought used at train shows.
The majority of those P2K engines was found on e-Bay or at Train shows.
98% of my new purchases was bought on line.
Some may say they're not up to today's "standards" but,they fill my simple standards to a "T" and that's all that matters to me.
A neighbor was building a workshop for his son. He had some scrap siding leftover, which he gave me. I was able to complete the top of the benchwork for the expansion I was working on. Another modeler gave me sheets of foam. I already had caulk on hand, so the cost so far (including more caulk) has been about $5.00 to complete that section of benchwork. I picked up some ceiling tiles that I'm going to use to make a rock outcrop at a hospital that was doing some remodeling. Sometimes, it's just a matter of keeping your eyes open and being at the right place at the right time.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
To me - inexpensive and bargains are two different things.
I picked up my two Trix 2-8-2 Mikes several years ago for more than 60% off MSRP. While that was a bargin, it wasn't exactly inexpensive. I have no qualms about paying for those beauties because they have been two of my favorate locomotives in my roster.
One of my LHSes was selling some old Proto 2000 boxcar and tanker kits to move stock. I walked out of there on a couple of occasions paying only $8-$9 a kit. Given the complexity (and delicacy) of Proto 2000s, the assembly "value" approached $1/hr. THAT - to me - was both a bargain and inexpensive!
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
When a LHS was moving some years back (it has since closed but that is another topic) they were selling off a Plastruct "point of purchase" display (a four-sided rack that turns) that had all manner of Plastruct styrene and ABS shapes in various sizes. I bought the entire thing for $15 and got not only a bargain on all sorts of scratchbuilding and kitbashing material, but a compact and interesting way to store it all and make it handy to use (and to restock if need be).
At a bankruptcy auction at yet another LHS I bid $75 for the entire contents of the end of an aisle (they were selling things by the aisle and similar big lots, not by the item). Not only did I get an enormous amount of yet more Plastruct and Evergreen styrene shapes and sheets, but some large metal toy construction equipment which I have given as gifts to kids who visit. The tally for "list price" for what I got came to about $520, perhaps more. Only about $70 of that was the toys, the rest was Plastruct and Evergreen.
It seems wise to spend the money on quality rolling stock and locomotives (but take advantage of opportunities). you may even want to invest in metal wheels.
But there are many opportunities to save money by building from scratch. I've saved lots of $$ by building my own turnouts and had some encouraging success with building mockups. With a little skill and knowledge you can build your own electronics. But I think someday I may even try building the shell of a locomotive since i'm interested in a small camelback 4-4-0.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Say! Did I mention my love of paper models, which can be as cheap as your printer?
Just go to Walthers and click on the link called, "On Sale Today!" You'll find a ton of deals right there: P1K DL-109's at $77 (instead of $150), Walthers GN Empire Builder cars at $33 (from $80) w/ lights, plated Superliners at $44 from $80, Amtubes at $39 from $80, stainless steel RPO's at $28 from $80, Metroliners at $100 vs. $170, FM H10-44's at $80 vs. $170, SD7's $90 vs. $200, and so on. There's some 3000 items on sale at Walthers right now, and some of them are 50% off or better.And meanwhile, used P2K-type locos on eBay sell for less than $50. And people still complain the hobby is too expensive. I guess they want it all for free?
Paul A. Cutler III
Most of my Proto 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's were about $50, got tons of Proto 2000 stock and tank cars for less than $12 each RTR, been paying around $15 for Atlas Master boxcars. Or how about $5 for Shinohara turnouts, bought about 15.
David:
I think just about everything I have in terms of rolling stock or structures has been purchased at affordable prices relative to the list price or the going price on eBay. Some bargains were better than others but I don't think I have paid MRP for anything other than supplies and scratch building stuff.
I consider some of the stuff that I bought to be 'expensive' but not un-affordable. For example, I have invested about $330.00 each in two small switcher engines built from Grandt Line kits, but I love them so they were worth the money, at least to me. Will I build a whole fleet of them? No.
One of the big issues for me living in Canada is shipping costs. Nothing is a bargain if it costs buckets for shipping and bogus import charges.
Sometimes you get a break. A few weeks back I got an Atlas Trainman RS-32 for $25 at a train show. I added a decoder I had laying around and it runs great. It came decorated as PC 2027; I spent about another $25 for a detail set and decals. I'm backdating it to NYC 2027.
BTW if you get the Walther's flyers, you may remember NYC 2027 on the PTJ "postcard" that sometimes came with the flyers a while back.
Mr Lenscap has the right idea with paper models although I personally prefer basswood or styrene for similar projects.
Years back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, model railroading consisted of two basic genres.....building trains and structures and building a model railroad. Today the latter is still very much alive. If you research back 40 years of RMC, you will find articles on a fellow named Bud Sima. His pike was called the Prospect and Upper Ridge Railroad or PURR. Bud would build locomotive from broom handles and just about scratch built everything. There were others and model railroading in proportion to today's RTR everythings was a fraction of the cost and ten times more fun.
Sometime when the urge bites you to spend $50 for a Chinese plastic car, go to eBay and acquire a similar wood kit for around $10. Then have a fine time. Why eBay...I know of few trains stores that stock wood kits nowadays. Or build a loco....There are still die-cast loco kits available in stores.... and not only will they be a fraction of the cost of an RTR counterpart....they can be made to look and run as good...if not better. At good train shows, these loco kits are often found at bargain prices.
Skill........??? When the bug bites you in the butt, you will be amazed at what you can do.
Thought for the day,
HZ
Hey, let's go sailing this weekend. Renting a 32' sailboat is only about $500 or $600 for 3 days. I've got my bareboat captain's ticket!
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Michael:
Sorry, I get sea sick.
However, I do get your point. We just spent 3 days bird watching at Point Pelee on Lake Ontario. The whole tab including hotel, meals, gas and park fees was about $900. It was worth every penny. So are my trains.
Bayfield Transfer Railway Hey, let's go sailing this weekend. Renting a 32' sailboat is only about $500 or $600 for 3 days. I've got my bareboat captain's ticket!
Sounds like a deal especially when a Lake Erie charter boat for 5 men could cost that much for one full day of fishing.
Neither has anything to do with this discussion on cutting costs of the hobby.
Like many hobbies or sporting activities model railroading can be expensive. In fact, I had to negociate pretty hard with the other half when I bought the last Atlas Classic Gold Sound locomotive.
But it can also be affordable. My last train related purchases where:
- Proto 1000 F3A at 25$ (on eBay);
- TCS T1 decoder at 18$ for that locomotive;
- Postage for both: about 15$
Less than 60$ for a really good running DCC locomotive.
- Four Accurail wood boxcars at about 15$ each (add a few bucks for Kadee couplers and metal weels) with many hours of pleasure in the future.
What can I ask more in terms of affordability?
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
Its a buyers market right now, at a local show this spring I bought this PFM/United brass 2-8-0 with PFM sound installed for $100. Its a late run with a near mint original box. Also got the near mint PFM sound console/throttle for a whole $7. If you love vintage HO, the prices are smoking hot right now. Oh yeah, the 2-8-0 is smooth as a Kato diesel when running and DCC still cannot manualy quill a steam whistle as good as the old PFM system. Mike
Hi all
Well how often has it been said the hobby is expencive well I supose it is in one way or another.
None of us spend more that we can afford, I think the claim comes mostly from people wanting to know how much a layout costs to build, when they get told thousands of dollars then have a heart attack and decide may be not the hobby for me.
It is totaly forgoten what often happens is off to the hardware to get a load of wood, glue and screws this gets turned into a train table or open frame bench
This takes a while to make during which no spend.
Then the track suplies and wire etc is bought next while thats going on no spend.
Then out comes the train which has probably been around a while gets played with for a while,well it might even be a new set
Then after that its I like that I will have one well thats another $20.00 and slowly it grows at an affordable rate and before you know it those thousands are spent
You did not even notice it did you, then there is all those aforementioned lucky strikes along the way that means a bit was saved as well.
But you are still about with sanity intact so it wasn't that expencive was it
Certainly cheaper than Therapy
If you are very good at bodgging things like a certain Lion of our aquantence or just good at making things those thousands, suddenly can build a masive empire that would make the Romans jealouse.
its all about knowing when you do it youself and when its better to buy one, that is the key to keeping that cost down to the minimum.
regards John
John BusbyWell how often has it been said the hobby is expencive well I supose it is in one way or another.
That depends on how much you want to spend. A very nice 4x8' layout can be built for around $2,000 including scenery track and structures.
Another $2-3,000 in cars and locomotives and you're good to go.
A good like new used MRC power pack can be had for as low as $10.00 at train shows.
DCC control can be had for $130.00.
Now if one goes piggy and fills a basement with a Godzilla size layout then its mega buck time.
For the record my 1' x 12' ISL cost less then $400.00 for lumber,track and structures.
My standard answer on the cost of the hobby is a very truthful "How much do you want to spend?" It can be as cheap as 2 engines 18-20 cars and a club membership-the layout is already built or it can costs thousands if you build a basement filling layout and far less for a 4x8' layout.
Timing is everything. A number of years ago my LHS had a non-sound undecorated DC P2K Berkshire on its shelf for the longest time. This was when sound equipped locos were beoming popular. I can't remember the exact price but it was north of $200. Finally in order to get rid of it, they deeply discounted it. This was shortly before their annual 20% off sale. I waited for the sale and then picked it up for a song, added a sound decoder, speaker, and decals and was still below $200. If I bought that same loco today fully equipped I'm guessing it would have cost me around $350.
If adjusted for inflation, the hobby is no more expensive today than it was 40 years ago when I was getting back into it. Many of the kits being sold back then are still sold today for about the same inflation adjusted price. It's hard to compare locos because today's have so many more built in features like DCC and sound and the detailing is so much better. Likewise RTR rolling stock has largely replaced shake-the-box kits so naturally they are going to be more expensive. However there are still some non-sound, non-DCC locos being produced and Accurail has filled the void left by Athearn BB exiting rolling stock kits and prices of those compare favorably with what they have tradionally been. The hobby isn't any more expensive than it used to be. Your dollars are just worth much less.
BRAKIE John Busby Well how often has it been said the hobby is expencive well I supose it is in one way or another. That depends on how much you want to spend. A very nice 4x8' layout can be built for around $2,000 including scenery track and structures. Another $2-3,000 in cars and locomotives and you're good to go. A good like new used MRC power pack can be had for as low as $10.00 at train shows. DCC control can be had for $130.00. Now if one goes piggy and fills a basement with a Godzilla size layout then its mega buck time. For the record my 1' x 12' ISL cost less then $400.00 for lumber,track and structures. My standard answer on the cost of the hobby is a very truthful "How much do you want to spend?" It can be as cheap as 2 engines 18-20 cars and a club membership-the layout is already built or it can costs thousands if you build a basement filling layout and far less for a 4x8' layout.
John Busby Well how often has it been said the hobby is expencive well I supose it is in one way or another.
I quit long ago trying to figure out how much I have spent on the hobby. If I knew I would probably be shocked. Each time I make a purchase I make the decision that the item I am buying is worth more to me than the money it costs. My only regrets come when I buy something and end up not using it on the layout. Plans change. Better things come along.
PS. I have one of those Godzilla layouts of which you speak. I'll bet someone could put their kid through college on what I have spent on it.
jecorbettI quit long ago trying to figure out how much I have spent on the hobby.
While I know the cost of my ISL I don't even want to think how much I have spent on cars and locomotives.
I started not to post anything, but here it goes anyway...
I am pretty sure that all of us understand that there are bargains to be had, whether it be on eBay, a train show, or a dusty old box at a garage sale. What I am talking about are the new, hot on the shelf items. These DO command much higher prices. And those prices, for the most part, are what I'm talking about.
Yes, Tichy freight cars are a bargain and I've assembled a few dozen of them. No one is disagreeing with that. Now, when at least one RTR freight car is approaching $100...to me that is ridiculous.
In the other thread, someone mentioned that I shouldn't care about the MSRP because no one charges that anyway. True, but since the MSRP is so high to begin with, this only makes the discounted prices higher. So maybe I should care about the MSRP after all..
Obviously, some see it differently than I do. I just choose to not participate in the hobby that way. As long as everyone is doing what they want, I guess that is all that matters.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Collections from the deceased! An older gentleman in our model RR group passed away some time ago. His widow sold a box of about a dozen frieght cars, two older locomotives (that will need some work, but quality items), all for $40.00!
Then I bought part of an extensive collection (from the widow of another older deceased gentleman in our group) that was parted out in boxes at a silent auction. This box had about 25 pieces of rolling stock (Athearn, Accurail, etc.) and some junk locomotives, all for $15.00. Some of the rolling stock were in severe disrepair, still useable for parts as well as for scene details. I gave the locomotives, as well as some of the other junk rolling stock away. All-in-all I ended up with about a dozen freight cars that fit my modeling era.
Cost of benchwork including scenery base for a 15x30' layout, less than $300 including leg levelers etc.
In the last 2 months I have purchased 5 "new in the box" locos for a total expenditure of $390, or only $78 each on average. Of course they do not have DCC or sound, but I don't want DCC or sound.
Got my Golden State train for a very good total price: 150 $ for the MTH SP GS-4 4-8-4, 22 $ for each of the 7 Walthers cars and 15 $ for each of the 4 Rivarossi cars (including interiors) and the IHC observation (including interiors). Total amount: 379 $ for a complete 12 car passenger train including die cast metal steam engine with sound and DCC. Ok, let´s make it 400 $ with the shipping included! I guess I was really lucky!
From our NZ based Auction site, I scored a partially built Woodland Scenics Grand Valley kit - just had the tunnels and plaster hills, and the foam trackbed installed - and some of the track. ( needed to be cut into 1/3rds for transporting), substantial timber supports and bracing; the Altas track kit for the GV, AND the complete GV building set. + a Hogwarts Express loco and a couple of carriages. And a basic throttle.
For $100.00 NZ ( or about $70US).
Fella was (sadly) selling it because of his expanding family ... the spare room had to go .. I think he was pleased in the end to see it go to someone who was going to appreciate it .. he just didnt have time for it any more.
It's my 1st layout, and enjoying the learning ( and un-learning ) process. Well, actually my second layout after 40 year hiatus .... back then lichen and sawdust was king !
Have run a couple of diesels around it already to make sure the track is usable - had to replace a section of the inner circle with flex as the sectional track was kinked.
The Hogwarts doesnt run too reliably, the front bogies seem to derail - rides too high thru the crossings - flanges too deep ?
My wife will be visiting stateside in a few months, so will have some loco's, rolling stock and DCC controller shipped to her place of stay for her to bring back. It's the import duties that's the killer at times - hit the GST threshold of $400NZ vaklue, and hit with the 15% GST, and $100 or thereabouts of import fees. Actually, I think MR gear is classed as toys, and automatically gets hit with the GST and import processing fees, irrespective of the GST threshold.....
An expensive hobby for us living at the bottom of the world
In another thread people have been posting on how expensive model trains are.
Yes they can be, but you can always find items in your budget no matter what it may be.
I have been looking for a IHC 650 ton coal bunker kit. I did find this past week the coal bunker mostly built just in need of some paint and a few loose trim pieces. I got it for $26.00 plus shipping. It is like new.
so as you see there are bargains out there you just have look and be patient.
What have you found?
Threads have been merged.
Howard ZaneSkill........??? When the bug bites you in the butt, you will be amazed at what you can do. Thought for the day, HZ
Another thought for today.. You may also be amazed what you can mess up thinking you can do this-another lesson learn by me today is when I messed up a SW1500 project so bad that I need to strip and repaint the engine..Some times the skill is not there regardless how hard one tries. Three and half days of work shot to itty bitty pieces..
Tune your cars up periodically,
When buying walthers passenger cars, remove the plastic couplers and replace them with metal kadee's. Push the diaphrams in/out 20-30 times so they're not stiff, tighten the trucks if needed, but don't go all the way (trucks too tight-the car derails). Finally oil the wheels to eliminate squeaks and the car will roll like a dream.
ATSFGuyWhen buying walthers passenger cars, remove the plastic couplers and replace them with metal kadee's.
Why would you throw away a metal Protomax coupler since they are the same as a KD #5?
All of Walthers newer cars come equipped with these metal couplers.
BRAKIE Another thought for today.. You may also be amazed what you can mess up thinking you can do this-another lesson learn by me today is when I messed up a SW1500 project so bad that I need to strip and repaint the engine..Some times the skill is not there regardless how hard one tries. Three and half days of work shot to itty bitty pieces..