Just saw a statement in the short blurb about the young model railroader meeting Pelle Soeberg that he was one of the first to see Pelle's new layout under construction. Is Pelle restarting again?
EDIT: Sorry guys, let's see if I can make this linky thing work:
http://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/new-products/2014/08/young-model-railroader-reader-meets-favorite-author
Where do you thing MRR magazine is going to gert any new articles from? ;-)
And if the fun is in the Building and Not the Operastions - what else is one going to do!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
It says he is working on a new layout, and in the background of the photo, you can see that there is a layout under construction.
I wonder if he tore down his last layout. He had just completed that one.
If he wants to just build layouts, I think he would be a great custom layout builder, and he could use the money he makes to get a large space to build a huge layout (maybe start a club?). Just my
jmbjmbJust saw a statement in the short blurb about the young model railroader meeting Pelle Soeberg that he was one of the first to see Pelle's new layout under construction.
So, okay, what short blurb was that? Do you have a link? Are we talking about the new layout that was recently featured in MR where he rebuilt his original layout, or something different?
There was an article in the March 2014 MR about Pelle redesigning and redoing his layout. I would imagine he's still working on that project.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Ahah, now I know why David Popp, Tony Koester, Lou Sassi, Chuck Hitchcock, Jim Six, Lance Mindheim and Paul Dolkos all built new layouts, to write more magazine articles! NOT! Folks, that is a trait of creative and artistic people. An artist always strives to do better, wants to create new and is critical of his older work but learns from it.
Victor A. Baird
www.erstwhilepublications.com
wabash2800 Ahah, now I know why David Popp, Tony Koester, Lou Sassi, Chuck Hitchcock, Jim Six, Lance Mindheim and Paul Dolkos all built new layouts, to write more magazine articles! NOT! Folks, that is a trait of creative and artistic people. An artist always strives to do better, wants to create new and is critical of his older work but learns from it. Victor A. Baird
You can keep telling yourself that if you want
BUT - I have run on lots of the published layouts and they are NOT tearing them down to make them better!
WHY?
Operations and they are having fun running their layouts
99% of those that keep tearing down their layouts don't get into serious Operations and have little reason to sit and look at the train running in endless circles!
So what what do they do - rebuild the layout.
If they were having Operations on a regulr basis - why would they tear down a well running layout (remember regular basis) and now the Crew sits around waiting for them to rebuild the layout - I think NOT!
I would be out running on someone elses layouts as there are many - and drop that layout owner like a hot potato!
I have also visited some of these so called Artist type layouts - and from what I and others have seen - the new layout isn't much better than the old one -meaning the Layout owner was bored with the current one and likes building over Operations
Dang big expensive Diorama!
They can do what ever they want - and have their articles printed in the magazines - that is there problem.
I know MRR and others sure don't want to see good running Operations layouts (let alone print them in the magazines as they don't photo well) as the Owners isn't worried about super great scenery - just that the layout runs well - the scenery will come in time.
But at least we are getting lots of good Press with all these new layouts! ;-)
cmrproductsAnd if the fun is in the Building and Not the Operations - what else is one going to do! BOB H -
Bob,If that was all there was to this hobby I would quit in fact I'll not have even started 60 years ago when I started crude "operation" on my dad's layout at the ripe old age of 6..I switch cars in the yard and delivered some cars to the industries.
I learn this by looking at photos in MR and Trains plus railfaning with my dad.I started solo railfaning at the age of 7.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE cmrproducts And if the fun is in the Building and Not the Operations - what else is one going to do! BOB H - Bob,If that was all there was to this hobby I would quit in fact I'll not have even started 60 years ago when I started crude "operation" on my dad's layout at the ripe old age of 6..I switch cars in the yard and delivered some cars to the industries. I learn this by looking at photos in MR and Trains plus railfaning with my dad.I started solo railfaning at the age of 7.
cmrproducts And if the fun is in the Building and Not the Operations - what else is one going to do! BOB H -
The point is - all parts of the Model Railroad experience is fun.
BUT - for many they lose as they do not recognize that Operations is a major part of the Model Railroad experience and keeps one happy with the layout they currently have.
But is seems that most on here Building the layout and tear it down and do it again and again - expecting different results - and still not happy - sure sounds like the classic defination of Insanity to me!
I have been working (building my current layout for over 14 years now) - I am no where near the completion point of it
YET - every 2 weeks I host and OPs Session and the crew shows up to make this Layout Operate.
What keeps me going is seeing where I can improve upon things - add another building or two.
i even change the trackwork around to allow more efficient moves in the Yards (and I have one in the planning stage right now).
If I was concerned only with building - this would have been my 4th layout by now and still not happey as what does one do with 2500 sq ft of layout if it doesn't Operate?
Keep tearing it down!
Just because one has an Operaitng layout shouldn't stop them from making changes (building) - I don't know where some get this idea from - I am never happy (the artist) and will make changes to suit my mood or what ever.
But the main goal is to have the next OPs Session - so I can see my work coming alive and watch others enjoy my work!
cmrproducts BUT - for many they lose as they do not recognize that Operations is a major part of the Model Railroad experience and keeps one happy with the layout they currently have. But is seems that most on here Building the layout and tear it down and do it again and again - expecting different results - and still not happy - sure sounds like the classic defination of Insanity to me!
You're making quite a few assumptions here and projecting your own interests on others.
I'm not even close to done with building my layout and I'm already getting the itch to move on to something else. It's been seven years of work so far. I have zero interest in "operations" (which, frankly, always sounds like crazy talk to me). I'm happy when I'm building things. Once everything is built, its time to move on to more building.
This layout will get torn down, not because I expect different results. But because its a finite space and in order to build more, that space has to be reused.
One of the nice things about our hobby is, that it allows for just any craze there is. You will find dreamers, who are dreaming about their perfect layout, but will never get around building one. There are the planners, like me, who turn out plan after plan, in search for the ultimate layout, but when it comes to building a layout, face the hard reality that a plan is just a plan. There are the builders, who build wonderful layouts, yet hardly run a train. And you have the operators, who put themselves into the engineer´s seat, or the dispatcher, or the brakemen and are happy to operate trains by the rule book, but do not care much about scenery or detail. And you have the collectors, who are just happy to own a certain loco or rolling stock.
All of the above is just fine! OK, the perfect model railroader would be a combination of all of these types, but I have yet to see this person.
So, whichever is your craze, be happy, but be respectful to those who have a different interest in our hobby.
I'm with Nittany, here. Don't be telling me what I must think is fun. I operate by myself as I live in an area where I don't know of any other model railroaders. I do find operations to be similar to a job and not all that much fun. I am much more interested in the building models or working on the layout portion of the hobby.
I get a kick out of you people who seem to think you know what everyone else should like.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Sir MadogSo, whichever is your craze, be happy, but be respectful to those who have a different interest in our hobby.
My craze is many starting with yard or industrial switching,then I collect IPD boxcars,HO 18 wheelers and straight commercial trucks,I like modeling industries and have a craze for short lines.
Now with 17 Athearn SW1500s I may have a craze for collecting those too.
Nope no craze for building and tearing out and rebuilding and tearing out and rebuilding and--you get the drift..
Here's why..
I want to see a return on my locomotive and car investment by them being used and I want to see my labor come alive by operation and besides all that lumber and track is just getting to darn expensive. LOL.
Several of those names mentioned have built maybe a total of TWO published layouts. In some cases, like Tony K, his old layout was proto-lanced based on Nickel Plate practices - and I think he was mostly just deluding himself into it being an acceptable substitute for what he really wanted, which was a Nickel Plate prototype layout. Part of this comes from how much the hobby has improved - with even plastic locos not coming that are accurately detailed for their specific prototype, not to mention the rolling stock. Way back when, when Tony started the AM, it would have been pretty much scratchbuild everythign to get accurate NKP models. These days, many items are available off the shelf.
Now, what we don't know is what the article backlog is, but if Pelle is building ANOTHER layout - one does need to wonder, as this would seem to be almost the third layout in as many years. But maybe the timeframe just seems compressed by the way the articles are published.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerbut if Pelle is building ANOTHER layout - one does need to wonder, as this would seem to be almost the third layout in as many years.
I wonder if that would be close to the number of layouts David Barrow(Cat Mountain & Santa Fe) built several years back in the 80 or 90s??
I liked his 'minimalist" layout idea.
Well, Barrow came up with a whole new concept. He rebuilt some sections of the original CM&SF, but then he moved tot he domino concept and if you count each different arrangment of the domino modules as a new layout, he's probably built dozens since then.
NittanyLion cmrproducts BUT - for many they lose as they do not recognize that Operations is a major part of the Model Railroad experience and keeps one happy with the layout they currently have. But is seems that most on here Building the layout and tear it down and do it again and again - expecting different results - and still not happy - sure sounds like the classic defination of Insanity to me! You're making quite a few assumptions here and projecting your own interests on others. I'm not even close to done with building my layout and I'm already getting the itch to move on to something else. It's been seven years of work so far. I have zero interest in "operations" (which, frankly, always sounds like crazy talk to me). I'm happy when I'm building things. Once everything is built, its time to move on to more building. This layout will get torn down, not because I expect different results. But because its a finite space and in order to build more, that space has to be reused.
Having built 20 layouts over the last 60 years - I guess I have pretty much covered every area I needed to explore.
So for me the only area left unexplored (for ME - as I surly don't want anyone else to experience my Operations as WORK) is Operations.
I have found it a learning process -
So I guess anyone that might be interested in Operations - don't
Its TOO MUCH LIKE WORK!
As I have been told by those that know!
See above.
Back to the subject at hand, here is the article mentioned in the OP.
Wow. Spend the day taking my son to soccer and I miss a whole conversation. In response to a question, I tried to add the link to my original post. Hope it works.
My only thought to this question is I think Pelle is a terrific modeler and love to see what he's doing, so wondered if he was starting in a new direction.
Bob, I don't think there is a competition between operations vs structure building vs scenary, etc. They are all legs that make this stool of model railroading stand up. Some of us just prefer building to running. You made the statement that building and then starting over expecting something different meets the definition of insanity. But for a lot of us, the goal is building. Or perhaps our interests change and we want to do narrow gauge or different scale. So the new layout is different. My interests for example would lead me to build a Maine 2-footer to a small port; an Applachian coal hauler; a Carolina Piedmont shortline (current layout), a granger line; Colorado Midland in the 1890s; a Shay powered logger; a DM&IR ore dock; and a car ferry. No way to fit them all in one layout or one lifetime, but sure can be interesting learning and building.
jim
I think that it may be that you are reading something into the original article that isn't there. I took it to mean that the young man in question (great story, by the way) is the first MR reader to see the new layout in person. It’s probably the same layout that Pelle has been writing about recently.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Larry:
I think there is some truth to what you say but also some generalization. Chuck was operating Santa Fe style, particulary passenger trains. Tony's Midland was into prototypical operations too including his coal mine runs and so was David Popp's New Haven in N scale, and probably a few more. As for Jim Six, I won't comment because he's changed directions several times in the last few years but reportedly is happy now. But each to their own, we can all learn from them.
I myself "love it all" but the operations or prototypical concept of my layout has kept me going. I model a real railroad (the Wabash) but a branch btw Fort Wayne and Indianapolis, Indiana that didn't exist. However, I am following Wabash operations style, signals and structures, and it makes it a blast. But completion of the layout has been slowed because I also scracth-build bridges and structures too for the layout and am building some working interlockings. I hope to have something to show when the NMRA folks are in my territory in 2015, but I'm happy and still headed in the right direction.
It is no bother if Mr Soeburg is building a new one or rebuilding the existing. After all, we are all in this hobby together- a brotherhood. However, and in MY OPINION, I think a little too much time is devoted to Mr Soeburg. No offense to him, he does pretty good work.
The fact remains, for my part in it, that I dont find late model diesels and modern freight trains appealing. I, like some of you, prefer the older steam powered era or early diesel. Alot of posts seem to think MR is geared towards certain people remaking their layouts over for the justification of articles. I do not think that is the reason. That is an expensive reason to write articles.
There does however seem to be alot of time devoted to certain people. Mr Soeburg is one of them. While he is good enough to warrant an article here and there, I am not looking forward to the continuos reporting should it be true he is working on another new layout. Unless it is a departure from his past endeavors, I wouldnt be interested. No offense to Mr Soeburg.
wabash2800Chuck was operating Santa Fe style, particulary passenger trains. Tony's Midland was into prototypical operations too including his coal mine runs and so was David Popp's New Haven in N scale, and probably a few more.
Victor,I always enjoyed reading articles from those gents as well as several others like Allen Mcclelland,Bill Darnaby,Eric Brooman and Bruce Chubb.
These modelers shared a wealth of information on designing a layout based on operations,prototypical operations and how to model a realistic freelance railroad.
Hi guys
All layouts reach a point where it is time to demolish salvage and start again.
It is just a case of how long it takes to reach that point and what it is that has prompted the rebuild.
We all have different views on what we want from the hobby and thats what we aim for.
It is after all a process of constant improvement.
The one coment I do take exeption to is that operators don't care about scenery well actualy they do.
and some of them a very good at it.
When that load of car parts arrives you need the Ford (or insert fav brand here) factory to deliver them to.
And if you have the Ford plant you need the depot for passenger operations and loco sheds
The magazines have to produce a superior product to keep there place in the market
So the layouts they show are going to be the ones they see as superior.
That judgement is always going to be coloured by the viewes of the magazine staff.
I have never seen an incomplete layout in a magazine unless its part of a now very rare construction
articals.
regards John
John Busby I have never seen an incomplete layout in a magazine unless its part of a now very rare construction articals.
I doubt that, there are several layouts that come to mind in the last year of MRR. There is a part in the article that says what the owner is working on, or is planning on. Some say they continue to make improvements. While the photos look complete and the article mostly talks about what has already been completed, most are incomplete and may never be "complete".
John BusbyAll layouts reach a point where it is time to demolish salvage and start again.
My normal ISL life span is 1-2 years before I decide its time to rebuild with a new idea I thought of.
The long term layouts was a 12' ISL-5 years and a N Scale 36" x72" hollow core door(aka door blank) layout 9 years.Both had great LDEs built for solo operation and both fell to changing scales from HO to N and then N back to HO.
The thought of changing either layout during their life span never crossed my mind.
I follow Pelles construction methods and have used several in my past layouts. That being said, I dont subscribe to every method because they are time consuming and laborious. I have several of his books and they are filled with information that I can use or discard. Whether MR overly uses his articles can always be up for debate, but he is a Contributing Editor working for MR and is credited in the front of each issue.
Without people like Pelle MR would have very little to publish each month, so why are people complaining about his work?
John Busby wrote: "The magazines have to produce a superior product to keep there place in the market. So the layouts they show are going to be the ones they see as superior."