Just as a matter of casual discussion:
It seems that there are different satisfaction categories of model Railroaders.
(1) In my case, as many others, I had a Lionel 3 rail train as a kid, with the flagman who popped out of a shack when the train went by, and a RR crossing that dropped at Mach 1 when the train came by. The pedestrians and cars had no chance of escape. that's one category, and one some people like even today.
(2) Then there is the grass mat and plasticville layout, maybe 4 X 8 or a little larger, with un-painted track, stock scenery like woodland scenics out of the bag, stock locos and rolling stock.
(3) Next is the more realistic modeler who weathers cars and locos, tries to get more realistic than the plasticville layout.
(4) Then the super-detailer who takes painstaking effort to get every little detail right on the train equipment, more accurate scenery and even focusing on the lettering and text of an era, including the culture of the layout time period.
(5) The ultimate modeler, is the "Craftsman", who spares no expense or time getting a miniature movie set quality layout, amazing dioramas, which can fool the eye to think that the scene is real life in every detail, super artist, and engineering fanatic.
(DCC) Of course, now the DCC technology adds more realism to any level layout.
In general, this is what I've observed for what it's worth.
Feel free to add your own opinions.
Sounds about right as far as model making. I would say some start at one place, progress to the other and then when eyesight gets worse, may go "back down" the categories. Plus you may have one level on locos and another on structures or you may have time to be the Craftsman for a certain area and a detailer on another. I tend to be between the last two mentioned.
There are also categories as it relates to operations from say around the Christmas tree to someone like Koester with full blown prototype operations and trained operators.
There are also categories as far as electronics, structures, rolling stock, locos, etc much in the way that the NMRA provides competitions, awards, etc.
Richard
Big Boy Forever
You missed One important category - OPERATIONS!
YEP! - I had to bring up that 4 Letter Word (as too many on here and other places consider it one)!
I also went through the Roundy-Round stage when I joined the Club some 25 years ago!
And I would sit for hours during our shows (12 hours at times) and watch the Little Toy Trains make their endless circles.
and finally after 15 years of this I thought OMG - there has to be something better than this!
I tried doing Operations with my A Flyer Trians when I was 10 or so but they just wouldn't run slow enough.
DCC made things work finally - All of the other stages most Modelers eventually work their way through in becoming better modelers!
But OPERATIONS - being so differect from Layout to Layout as we do a lot of OPs on layouts all over the country - this is one area that one has to continually practice to get better!
Just like Golf - You can be a Master on you home course and be a real PUTZ on an unfamiliar course.
Same as it is in Operations - learning one layout doesn't make one an expert - but being able to handle any job on any other Layout needs practice!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
LION is in the middle. Him is always building with his fingers and does only a little serious operating at the moment. Scenery is good to excellent, but also a bit childish or rugged in its execuition. Him has no money to spend of fancy details, but does what he can with cardboard, foam and wood. Him has spent much time trying to perfect the electrical side of the layout, but looks forward to the time when him can get back on the scenery. While waiting to do that, it is far too hot for a LION to visit the trainroom in the summertime. Him is *supposed* to be working on a new operating modelboard for the interlocking tower of him. But him is sitting here writing to ewe instead.
So how do YOU judge the layout of him, as if him was worried about it.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
cmrproducts Big Boy Forever You missed One important category - OPERATIONS! YEP! - I had to bring up that 4 Letter Word (as too many on here and other places consider it one)! I also went through the Roundy-Round stage when I joined the Club some 25 years ago! And I would sit for hours during our shows (12 hours at times) and watch the Little Toy Trains make their endless circles. and finally after 15 years of this I thought OMG - there has to be something better than this! I tried doing Operations with my A Flyer Trians when I was 10 or so but they just wouldn't run slow enough. DCC made things work finally - All of the other stages most Modelers eventually work their way through in becoming better modelers! But OPERATIONS - being so differect from Layout to Layout as we do a lot of OPs on layouts all over the country - this is one area that one has to continually practice to get better! Just like Golf - You can be a Master on you home course and be a real PUTZ on an unfamiliar course. Same as it is in Operations - learning one layout doesn't make one an expert - but being able to handle any job on any other Layout needs practice! BOB H - Clarion, PA
Yeah thats one I've been studying up on recently, and have sought out answers on this forum with results such as real NORAC and GCOR prototype train rules PDF printouts provided by "dehusman"
cmrproductsI also went through the Roundy-Round stage when I joined the Club some 25 years ago!
Trains of LION go Roundy-Round, sort of, but with 14 miles of track and 8 trains running at once this is not so obvious. There are two express trains running on their own dedicated loops, but nobody knows that unles I tell them. The other six trains run point to loop and have to be brought in and out of the terminal by the tower operator providing line-ups and signals, and logging arrivals and departures in the book. Trains depart 242nd Street every 3 to 5 minutes during rush hours, every 20 minutes at night, but then the work trains come out to play and may delay revenue trains since I do not have any escape pockets for them to clear up.
Lion
I would expect nothing less of a Subway! ;-)
Unfortunately our Club couldn't have a larger Lionel Layout - so I kept getting dizzy or falling asleep running that layout! ;-)
I was hoping I would get fired - BUT no such luck!
BroadwayLion LION is in the middle. Him is always building with his fingers and does only a little serious operating at the moment. Scenery is good to excellent, but also a bit childish or rugged in its execuition. Him has no money to spend of fancy details, but does what he can with cardboard, foam and wood. Him has spent much time trying to perfect the electrical side of the layout, but looks forward to the time when him can get back on the scenery. While waiting to do that, it is far too hot for a LION to visit the trainroom in the summertime. Him is *supposed* to be working on a new operating modelboard for the interlocking tower of him. But him is sitting here writing to ewe instead. So how do YOU judge the layout of him, as if him was worried about it. ROAR
According to some photos on your website, I'd say you are doing Level (2) to (3) only much bigger and lots of gear and structures.
You are missing a category between #2 and #3.
Once you get beyond the grass and Plasticville buildings, not everyone weathers locos, rolling stock and structures nor do all of us paint our track.
But we build some pretty nice layouts with structures painted in detail, ballasted track, believable back drops, and all the rest.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain You are missing a category between #2 and #3. Once you get beyond the grass and Plasticville buildings, not everyone weathers locos, rolling stock and structures nor do all of us paint our track. But we build some pretty nice layouts with structures painted in detail, ballasted track, believable back drops, and all the rest. Rich
I probably missed a few sub-groups, as I just tried to look at the big picture of categories.
I'm not attempting to be critical, or say this or that layout is nice or not nice, as it's all in the eyes of the beholder, just looking at different satisfaction levels which people enjoy.
I'm with Bob on this one. Too many years of standing outside a layout at show watching the trains go in circles, and answering questions from none railroading hobbyists.
I will claim to be a level 3 modeller (from orginal post), but have hosted a weekly operating session for ten plus years. Layout accomadates 3 two man teams, and each session is about two hrs.
I have only been at one session one another layout, but I agree that every layout has its things to be learned.
Dave
As I said in my post, OPERATIONS is one area of possible classifications and so I should post this website to the NMRA SIG Ops group.
http://www.nmra.org/sigs/operations-sig
From there go to the opsig.org website. You will find resources to help you understand more detail about operations. There are even car cards, etc on the associated links. I make my own car cards using excel, etc.
The NMRA is a great resource and if you are interested in gaining more knowledge of model railroading is likely the best. I am a member and find it great and helpful.
BTW, I would add under your Craftsman category the ability to build from scratch. For me, there is a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction doing research, making drawings and building something from scratch--but most don't seem to find it worth the time--lol.
I think pigeon-holing people is generally a pointless endeavor. Depending on my mood, I could fall into any of those categories. So that doesn't tell you much. There are no membership cards, special privileges (except if you reach the peak of the most skilled category, you might get to put MMR after you name), or uniforms and secreet handshakes involved.
Too often, the next thing after categorization is us vs them. It's a big hobby, but not big enough to need any more of that than we already have. YMMV
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I saw the LION's layout videos. I was very impressed with the results given the LION's constraints. Very nice LION.
I must say it helps to have a goal in order to better fit into a category. Otherwise we end up all over the place.
Jaime currently in the "Armchair" category
mlehman I think pigeon-holing people is generally a pointless endeavor. Depending on my mood, I could fall into any of those categories. So that doesn't tell you much. There are no membership cards, special privileges (except if you reach the peak of the most skilled category, you might get to put MMR after you name), or uniforms and secreet handshakes involved. Too often, the next thing after categorization is us vs them. It's a big hobby, but not big enough to need any more of that than we already have. YMMV
When I read the OP's initial post, I thought, Nice Try. But, the number of categories that he listed are too few to express all of the different approaches to the hobby.
I hate being put into a category. I am an individual, there is no other like me!
Selecting 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9, maybe 10 categories of model railroaders won´t do it. IMHO, there are many in-betweens. Most likely there are as many categories as there are model railroaders.
Sir Madog I hate being put into a category. I am an individual, there is no other like me! Selecting 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9, maybe 10 categories of model railroaders won´t do it. IMHO, there are many in-betweens. Most likely there are as many categories as there are model railroaders.
Exactly, what about the Freelancers? What about the guys who are excellent modellers but dont give a fig about any exact prototype or era, what about the Allens, Furlows, Barrows, Selios, of the modelling world.
Its a big hobby out there, don't go trying to put it all in small box, it won't fit.
Have fun with your trains
I know quite a few model railroaders who come to this forum and who won´t fit into any of the mentioned categories.
Take Darth - his layout is not so thrilling, but the guy does certainly one of the best loco refurbishing and painting jobs I´ve ever seen. Or RobbyP. - his weathering is outstanding. Cars done by him and photographed outside are hard to differ from their prototype. Add scale couplers to them and you won´t be able to tell the difference.
Or take me. I´d call myself a rather mediocre model railroader, with limited skills and abilities. My layout is more or less a switching puzzle, nothing sophisticated at all, no special bells and whistles. Lots of mistakes in the track plan, when it comes to operation. Yet I understand, at least that´s what people have told me, to create atmospheric scenes on my free-alnced On30 Maine based layout. I am just entering the world of scratchbuilding structures and the work I have done so far looks a liitle crude, but neverthelees oozes atmosphere.
Ulrich
You are UNIQUE! - just like EVERYONE Else !? ;-)
cmrproductsYou are UNIQUE!
OMG - I knew it! Something´s wrong with me! Is it contageous?
I would suggest:
DIY-ers:
Master Craftsman (NMRA competition-level); Expert Craftsman (non-competing with high detail level, but self-published-online); Tradesman (medium detail level with competent work); Journeyman (skill-building) and Novice (new to hobby/ RTR only).
Operators:
Master Operator (DC/DCC- wires, programs & schedules operations w/real-world fidelity); Expert Operator (wires, programs & schedules in freelance manner); Journeyman Operator (wires & operates at modest level) and Beginner Operator (learning to wire & program for operations).
Scenery:
Scenic Artist (highly- realistic backrounds and scenery); Scenic Designer (competent scenery results w/ less detail); Journeyman Designer (applying skill-building scenic methods) and Novice (grass mat/painted scenery in freelance manner).
Perhaps that is too particularized, but it puts a decriptive noun together with a competency level.
Cedarwoodron
Sir Madog cmrproducts You are UNIQUE! OMG - I knew it! Something´s wrong with me! Is it contageous?
cmrproducts You are UNIQUE!
YES it is!
It's called Model Railroading! ;-)
I model realistically with locomotives and freight cars out of the box. I look for freight cars and diesels I find in pictures to model the exact eras I'm modeling, 1987-2007. I also research the era to understand music, tv, news and everything else.
If I do weather my equipment it may nor may not look good. My beginners layout has premade structures and track. When my main layout comes I'll kitbash, laying track, etc.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
I think your hierarchy list is an example of the elitism of a small group of model railroaders who feel that their way is the only way. Another example of the old topic "Who's a REAL model railroader"
There are many people who enjoy collecting and operating Toy Trains. Many of them create elaborate layouts as well to recapture the toy train layouts of Lionel, American Flyer, etc. of years gone by.
There are many people trying to recreate railroad operations on fairly large layouts who have neither the time or inclination to super detail or create movie/museum dioramas.
There are many people who enjoy building models without having to do hours of research.
The list goes on and on.
There are even people who enjoy more than one way of model railroading.
The "ultimate modeler" is the one who is having fun with trains. Even if that's a Tyco train set running through Plasticville on a grass mat.
As usual just my waiting for change
Paul
Interesting thread!
In going with the OP's list, I think that I fall somewhere between #3 and #4 or perhaps, a "3.5"! If I refer to Cedarwoodron's list than I'd consider myself a "Tradesman", Journeyman Operator, Journeyman Designer.
I enjoy taking models and sprucing them up to look more prototypical. Light to moderate weathering. However, I also freelance and don't have to have units that match the prototype down to the last bolt. For layouts I want realistic looking mainline track (Code 83) and simplified signaling (2-aspect).
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
While I agree with the sentiment of others that we shouldn't attempt to classify other model railroaders, I will admit to getting annoyed when someone finds out what I do and I get the response "oh, so is my dad, he's got a huge collection of Lionel stuff up in the attic... almost all of it in the original boxes". I don't even bother trying to explain the difference any more.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Pretty much all these characterization and classifications fail unless they are extremely broad. There are dozens of different dimensions of modeling aspects and no asbolute scales to measure where somebody lies on any of those scales. Another fourm had a similar thread and after over 100 posts was nowhere closer to any concensus defining the terms under consideration.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Having returned to the hobby yet once again (and for good,) I have trouble with #3. Many of us are above #2, but while we don't all weather our cars and locos we do strive to be more than "Plasticville" modelers.
I am generally content with my rolling stock out of the box, as long as it runs well and gives me no problems. However, I do kitbash and paint/weather (usually dry brush) most of my structures. And I am building this for my pleasure only.
I recently retired and we moved into a manufactured home with a room large enough for me to construct a layout that is basically a 6x14 "twice around." I know no one in the area who is a model railroader, so whatever I do is soley for myself. When I began the benchwork, pushing 70 years of age, I thought I just wanted someplace to watch the traines go round-and-round. Then I realized that this is called MODEL RAILROADING. And I still wanted to model! I don't care if the buildings, scenery, etc., look real, as long as I am happy with them.
I am trying, in my mind, to create an illusion of time, space and reality. If I can please myself, the layout which I began in 1960 will be a success.
RAILROADING.
That's it !
I hereby demand that the OP create a #2.5 category.
I knew some people would take offense, it's inevitable, "you can't catergorize me" and "that's elitism", that's just how it goes, even though I made it clear that "satisfaction" of the model railroader was the deciding factor, and that it was a broad big picture, lacking sub groups.