I was investiGoogling and stumbled onto this site...
http://www.michaelashkin.com/model.php?p=1.1.3.1
Click on the thumbnails across the top. There's one near the end that looks like it was taken on someone's layout, complete with Pikestuff building.
I have no idea what this guy's art sells for, but it's probably a heckuva lot more than anyone here could get for a diorama.
Steve S
All I can say is that art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. If you call it art or trendy you could probably sell a piece of gold plated doggie doo-doo on a chain and someone would wear it around their neck !!!
Slightly
Several decades ago, during my brief sojurn to California, I encountered a 'thing' on a street corner in an industrial area - a conglomeration of bent steel girders painted, IIRC, oxide red.
When I inquired, I was told it was a modern freeform sculpture - required by some local ordinance that mandated something of artistic value among the plain building block shapes of the local buildings.
'Art' is in the eye of the beholder. So is scrap metal.
In the same vein, what happened to the cockamamie scheme to hang a big (1:1 scale) model of a Santa Fe 4-8-4 nose down over a New York City intersection?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with very little artistic merit)
tomikawaTT I encountered a 'thing' on a street corner in an industrial area
At least it didn't take up an entire city block like this monstrosity...
http://binged.it/1nehFjJ
Steve S,
Now this is Art???
How would You like this sculpture in Your front yard.
Downtown Chicago, city hall:
http://www.chicagodetours.com/tag/picasso/
Take Care!
Frank
Steven S tomikawaTT I encountered a 'thing' on a street corner in an industrial area At least it didn't take up an entire city block like this monstrosity... http://binged.it/1nehFjJ Steve S
or this one:
http://binged.it/1nQ6n0X
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I think that you might want to research Michael Ashkin a bit before ridiculing his art work on this forum.
All is not what it appears to be.
Rich
Alton Junction
Steven S I was investiGoogling and stumbled onto this site... http://www.michaelashkin.com/model.php?p=1.1.3.1 Click on the thumbnails across the top. There's one near the end that looks like it was taken on someone's layout, complete with Pikestuff building. I have no idea what this guy's art sells for, but it's probably a heckuva lot more than anyone here could get for a diorama. Steve S
I wonder will MR publish one of his submissions?
Jaime
richhotrainI think that you might want to research Michael Ashkin a bit before ridiculing his art work on this forum. All is not what it appears to be.
Michael Ashkin is an American artist who makes sculptures, videos, photographs and installations depicting marginalized, desolate landscapes.[1] He is best known for his use of miniature scale and modest materials.[2] Ashkin also authored Garden State, a book which compares the New Jersey Meadowlands to a formal garden. [3] He is a contributing author to (Untitled) Experience of Place. [4] Ashkin was born in Morristown, New Jersey, and received an M.A. in Middle East Languages and Cultures from Columbia University. Before becoming an artist, he taught Arabic and worked as a computer programmer for investment banks. [5] Ashkin's work was included in Documenta 11 in 2002, and in the 1997 Whitney Biennial. He is a professor at Cornell University College of Architecture, Art, and Planning as well as a 2009 Guggenheim Fellow.
Ashkin also authored Garden State, a book which compares the New Jersey Meadowlands to a formal garden. [3] He is a contributing author to (Untitled) Experience of Place. [4]
Ashkin was born in Morristown, New Jersey, and received an M.A. in Middle East Languages and Cultures from Columbia University. Before becoming an artist, he taught Arabic and worked as a computer programmer for investment banks. [5] Ashkin's work was included in Documenta 11 in 2002, and in the 1997 Whitney Biennial. He is a professor at Cornell University College of Architecture, Art, and Planning as well as a 2009 Guggenheim Fellow.
Shame on you guys.
Steven Otte should lock this thread.
Just another example of bashing people who aren't here to defend themselves.
richhotrain Shame on you guys. Steven Otte should lock this thread. Just another example of bashing people who aren't here to defend themselves. Rich
NEMMRRC I wonder will MR publish one of his submissions? Jaime
When it includes a train.
Since it doesn't, I'll give you guys a little while to find some way to make this thread on-topic, else it goes bye-bye.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
"ART, is whatever you can get away with..." Marshall McLuhan
The Medusa's Head, model trains wrapped around an asteroid
Artist: Chris Burden (be more impressive if all the trains worked (Magnatraction Chris Magnatraction)
I myself have always considered model railroading a kinetic art form.
Have fun with your trains
Steven OtteNEMMRRC I wonder will MR publish one of his submissions? Jaime When it includes a train.
I'm not certain that including a train is really a criteria. Did not MR publish a photo or article about something called "NOtrack"?
Hate to ruin it for you, but that was an April Fool's joke.
vsmith
Who snuck that Malcolm Furlow layout on here?
Actually, I've seen almost that much track on an N scale layout (3 levels, and it worked!) on a tea tray. It was a Tetsudo Mokei Shumi cover story several years ago. Not only was it a runnable track plan (albiet with very short trains) but it included structures that were severely compressed but recognizable representations of Tokyo landmarks.
In my biased opinion, THAT was art!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
richhotrainI think that you might want to research Michael Ashkin a bit before ridiculing his art work on this forum.
Not so much ridiculing it as pointing out that a quality photo diorama might sell for $50, but put the tag "art" on it and you could add a zero or two onto the price.
Many outside the model railroad community believe that Rod Stewart's obsession with "toy trains" is the result of years of drug use.
So who are we to judge the tastes of others?
Steven S richhotrain I think that you might want to research Michael Ashkin a bit before ridiculing his art work on this forum. Not so much ridiculing it as pointing out that a quality photo diorama might sell for $50, but put the tag "art" on it and you could add a zero or two onto the price. Steve S
richhotrain I think that you might want to research Michael Ashkin a bit before ridiculing his art work on this forum.
richhotrainIf you didn't know it was a Renoir painting, I wonder how much you might pay for it if you saw it in a flea market? Rich
Or if you didn't know it might be a $100 million Leonardo, you might sell a portrait for $22,000 at your gallery.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/02/lost-da-vinci/o-neill-text
Of course, you missed my point.
I give up. This thread is as dumb as many of the replies.
Steven Otte Hate to ruin it for you, but that was an April Fool's joke.
I still have that cartoon MR ran about a guy's new hobby-modeling a abandon rail line complete with weeds-his wife said to another woman she was glad George(?) found a hobby."George" had his feet propped up sound asleep.
------------------------------
In the past I have sold some of my small ISLs but,one could hardly call them art regardless of the definition they tried using.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
When I presented my current work, a member there called me an artist.
I strongly resent being called an artist!
If I remember my art classes from way back when, there are impressionists, expressionists, dadaists, mannerists, realists, romantics, there is gothic, art nouveau, baroque, renaissance, modernism - the list being by far not exhaustive. I don´t think that building a model of the real world falls into any of these categories!
Sir MadogWhen I presented my current work, a member there called me an artist. I strongly resent being called an artist! Mischief If I remember my art classes from way back when, there are impressionists, expressionists, dadaists, mannerists, realists, romantics, there is gothic, art nouveau, baroque, renaissance, modernism - the list being by far not exhaustive. I don´t think that building a model of the real world falls into any of these categories!
If one has a narrow view of what art is, then I suppose one could exclude model railroading from the category of art. I kinda sense "art" actually adds up to a four-letter something based on many of the replies.
Most of what we do is actually art, even those who disclaim any intent of making such a thing. We use certain media, have certain categories of expression, and often use it to tell a story which might not be obvious with those who are uninformed, but which certainly has meaning to those creating it and, quite often, to those appreciating it based on standards and values that are widely shared within a community.
I suspect what everyone has their knickers in a twist in a twist is over some stereotype of an artist. That avoids any deeper consideration of what model railroaders do -- and that's fine so long as you're happy with setting up strawmen to knock over. Realistically, we do art, certainly by the expansive definition that art is usally seen as by anyone who cares about it. While some of the critiques here are clearly negative, they nonethelss validate the idea that model railroading is art by their very existance. As someone already mentioned, the fact that you're talking about one person's art and comparing it to what you or others do is a pretty strong indicator that what we do is indeed art.
Which doesn't, BTW, exclude model railroading being a hobby, craft, or simply work. It can be all of those things or none of them and still be art.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Mike,
I think we have a cultural issue here.
In Europe, we tend to have a much narrower view on what art is and artists are. Anything not belonging to the traditional arts, i.e. painting, literature, music, performing arts, sculptoring etc, we rather understand as crafts.
In the US, to my understanding, the term art has a very broad use. Make-up artist, nail artist? Model railroading artist?
Let´s keep it to this - if, in the eyes of a US model railroader, I am an artist, so it be!
mlehmanIf one has a narrow view of what art is, then I suppose one could exclude model railroading from the category of art. I kinda sense "art" actually adds up to a four-letter something based on many of the replies.
And if MR didn't use the word" art" in some of their editorials and by couple of guest columnist I highly suspect this type of discussion would not be.
As much as I've tried I can not find art in "Model Railroading" since we model a transportation system.
I truly doubt if model "truckers" used the word "art" for their dioramas of truck stops and industries..
BTW.They too are modeling a transportation system.
I'm not sure why we are even discussing whether or not those dioramas are art. And I've looked at the link several times and see nothing refering to what those dioramas would sell for.
What I think is more important is to discuss the modeling. Certainly the flood scene is very well done. And the second to last photo with the Pikestuff building, the billboard, and the highway overpass also should give people some ideas. All it would need would be a railroad bridge in the background to qualify as "model railroad related".
Sir MadogIn Europe, we tend to have a much narrower view on what art is and artists are. Anything not belonging to the traditional arts, i.e. painting, literature, music, performing arts, sculptoring etc, we rather understand as crafts.
I suspect you're not hanging out with with the right "art crowd." I don't doubt at all that very traditional view of art comprises a large part of the arts crowd. It does here, too. But there is a pretty strong component that now sees the distinction made between arts and crafts as entirely artiificial, contrived, and little more than marketing to pump up art prices, which I suggest might be a large part of the real answer to why such distinctions are made.
On the other hand, hang out with certain, shall we say more cutting edge artist crowd and the view is decidedly more diverse. It's less of an academic thing, although I think becoming stronger there every year, than it is one that tends to offer systemic critiques. For them, the arts are no more immune from such critiques and reflections than politics , business, journalism, science, and medicine.
I have to confess that I tend to be a bit more sensitive to such issues than even many artists. I was among the founders of and for several years what was effectively the chief adminstrative officer for a media and arts cooperative that specializes in promoting such an expansive view of what art is. Frankly, I came from the media/political side of things and dealing with art was a bit out of my comfort zone, but I did come to appreciate the view that we're all artists. Promoting an elitist view of art as something one has to qualify for was exactly the thing our model of organization was designed to critique by offering an alternative vision that we all are artists in some way, whether we realize it or not.
So to a certain extent, that has rubbed off on me and my relationship to the hobby. I don't offer this up as a way to stick "Artist" labels on the backs of my unsuspecting fellow model railroaders -- that does beat "Kick me!" though, don't ya know? But I do think much of what makes model railroading what it is directly maps over to what artists do.
Artists spend as much time as we do on our creations because the work has deep meaning for both. That expression of individual meaning might be a painting or it might be a well-composed scene on a layout. Both spring from many of the same motivations and offer the artist/modeler deep satisfaction -- or sometime just frustration that a better expression could have been made, which I think is common with model railroaders, too. Look at how many layouts get rebuilt after the "artists" become dissatisfied with the work they've done. Then there's all those previous versions that often underlie some of those great European paintings. Yep, tear it out, start over. Maybe it's artists who are just unfulfilled model railroaders?
BRAKIEBRAKIE wrote the following post 44 minutes ago: mlehman If one has a narrow view of what art is, then I suppose one could exclude model railroading from the category of art. I kinda sense "art" actually adds up to a four-letter something based on many of the replies. And if MR didn't use the word" art" in some of their editorials and by couple of guest columnist I highly suspect this type of discussion would not be.
Larry,
I know art when I see it. And I'm sure I'm not the only, just as I'm equally sure lots of people have your reaction.
All I know is I know is a lot of what I see in the pages of MR, other publications, here in the forum and elsewhere on the 'net qualifies as art, whether or not that was their creator's intent.
Does the photograph of a model railroad count as art?