I have become the owner of 5 Athearn Passenger cars painted for New Haven. I have a couple questions.
There are no wheel sets. Anything strange I need to look out for or will "standard" wheel sets work in the athern passenger trucks? I'll be converting them to body mount couplers and intend to cut the coupler mount tabs off the trucks.
I'm thinking about adding lighting. I've never played with lighting before, do I need to get particualr wheel sets for the electric pick up?
Does any one know of a good online source for images of interiors of typical passenger cars,observation cars and sleepers? I have a generic book, and it gives a general idea, but more information is always better. I worked up the following for the diner car:
The picture is a computer render of a model I'll have 3d printed representing a generic diner interior, and then I'll put some passengers in some of the seats. Anyone see anything obviously wrong? I'm not looking for perfect accuracy, close is good enough for me.
Hi,
I'm no stranger to Athearn passenger cars, and currently run an 11 car set of ATSF detailed heavyweights. But unlike your situation, mine were all complete kits that I modified by adding diaphragms, KD couplers, Intermountain wheelsets, decals and window tint, etc.
The project you are describing sounds a bit overwhelming to me, and could prove to be pretty costly - especially given that the Athearn cars are (mostly) shorties.
Ok, it sounds like I'm "Mr. Negativity" here, and perhaps I am. But you could have a lot more to work with using full length cars that already have the trucks.
Said another way, unless one is a really accomplished modeler, one could be biting off a lot more than one can chew.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
With all due respect,,,Mobilman44,,he has the trucks,,needs,the wheel sets...To the OP,,,He gave you a source for wheel sets,,Intermountain,,another would be Exactrail and there are others..To have them lighted,,you need,metal wheel sets with one wheel insulated...I'm guessing,but I believe they are 33'' inch wheels..
Hope That Helps,
Cheers,
Frank
That does help. I recently bought some used freight cars and when I tried to replace the wheel sets found they weren't standard, and had to replace the whole truck. I was wondering if I faced the same problem.
As to the amount of work, that's half the fun. I run a module in a mobile layout that gets set up at shows and have quickly discovered that high detail doesn't travel well. These cars look fairly robust and I have a Bachman New Haven engine that will look good pulling these around the track.
You need to find 36 inch wheels and like Frank said, metal with one side insulated. NWSL is another easy to find brand.
These cars were designed for tight curves so if you have wider ones, then body mounting will work. Other wise, the truck mounted will work very well. I have a set with truck mounted and they never derail.
Adding pickups is very easy. Athearn used a simple brass wiper which mounts under the bolster screw. You can buy the stock Athearn pickup but I would just make my own.
The real key to getting good lighting effects is using a capacitor. The capacitor and some LEDs will give you flicker free lighting.
Jim
DCYALE,
If the cars you have are the Athearn BB kits of old,,,they came with,wheels that were one side plastic and the other metal and they were a Scale 72 ft,,,in my opinion,they were not bad at all,for the time..
Good Luck on Your Endeavor,
One other detail,I will mention,,you said that you will be putting diaphragms on them,,I would recommend a Kadee,#156,whisker,long shank coupler,if you do..
Great minds think alike...or fools seldom differ as my grandfather used to say . I to just picked up a half dozen of the old Athearn Santa Fe streamlined cars, new old stock, and plan to do some detail work to them. This is my first foray into passenger trains and my first step outside my modern day Union Pacific freight, so it's both exciting and intimidating at the same time.
Not to high jack this thread, but I do have related questions that may also benefit the OP.
1. What diaphragms do you use for these old Athearn kits? I have seen quite a few on EBay and elsewhere and cannot make heads nor tails as to which ones to get?
2. What color is best used to tint windows? Clear blue?
3. For wheel sets, I see that both Walthers and Intermountain make 33" sets. My LHS has 12 packs of the Proto 2000 33" in stock (#920-21258), and a large pack of Intermountain 33" in stock (#40055). Would either of these work and if not, which would you choose? Btw, I don't plan on lighting the cars interiors if that makes a difference.
Thanks all!
Happy Modeling!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
Palace Car Company makes kits for interiors for Athearn and other cars. They aren't one-piece "drop in" interiors like Walthers, Rivarossi and others have used. They use a heavy metal floor piece that you glue the seats and tables and such to. Nice in that the floor adds weight to the car without using the large interior Athearn weights being needed.
http://www.palacecarco.com/products.php?cat=3
There are a couple of issues not mentioned or addressed:
I bought my diaphragms from American Limited
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Don,
Diaphragms I havn't used in years,so I can't comment on them..The wheel sets,that you mentioned,seems to me like either would be okay..As far as window tint,they were usually green.
zstripe Don, Diaphragms I havn't used in years,so I can't comment on them..The wheel sets,that you mentioned,seems to me like either would be okay..As far as window tint,they were usually green. Hope That Helps, Cheers, Frank
Oh that helps! Many thanks. I plan on dropping by the LHS later this afternoon to pick up the wheel sets.
The Athearn,BB kits of the sixties,passenger cars did have plastic trucks..All the ones,I ever bought did..
After a long absense, American Limited daiphragms are available again. They are good, and designed to fit a number of manufacturer's cars. I have used tham on a number of my passenger cars
The single set is presently out of stock ar Walthers, but teh 6 pack is available. Check your LHS
Single http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/147-9100
6 pack http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/147-9106
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
The Athearn heavy weight cars are good models of the ordinary passenger cars that remained in service until Amtrak time. The prototypes had 36 inch wheels. I think the models came with 36 inch wheels, but I'd have to get out my calipers to be sure. The Athearn truck mounted couplers work well and permit the cars to operate well on 18 inch curves. Was it me, I'd leave them on. I fear that body mounts may cause derailments on curves.
Lighting can be a little tricky. Metal wheels are needed for electrical pickup. You want pickup from as many wheels as possible to reduce flickering. You want phosphor bronze to make the axle wipers from. Brass isn't springy enough. Axle wipers have much less frictional drag than wheel wipers. I used wheel wipers on a caboose once, and the added friction was so great that the coal drag could no longer make the hill. It's difficult to get enough brightness in the lamps to have the lights show unless the train room is very very dark. Beware of glowing plastic roofs. They look bad. I lined some roofs with a shiny metallic tape sold as Christmas decoration. Paint the insides of the cars a light color to make the lights brighter. Provide two or more bulbs per car.
If you are electronically inclined, there are a number of lighting circuits to give constant brightness and flicker free lighting. There are some huge capacitors (0.47 Farads) tht will keep the lamps burning for 20 seconds after track power is turned off, but they need a deal of support circuitry which I won't go into here. LEDs use less juice than bulbs, but give a bluish, fluorescent kind of light, bulbs give a light that looks like bulbs.
The ordinary coach has a simple interior layout, even rows of seatbacks, about one per window.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
zstripe.To have them lighted,,you need,metal wheel sets with one wheel insulated...I'm guessing,but I believe they are 33'' inch wheels..
They would be 36" wheels. Standard on most passenger equipment.
---
Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
===================================
"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
I've worked up several trains worth of Athern Blue Box passenger cars, both heavyweight and streamlined, to run on my club layout and at train shows. It's true the Athern cars are a bit undersized and the streamlined ones, no matter what livery they wear, are all patterned on the Santa Fe Super Chief of the 1940's except that they are one window shorter than the prototypes. For diaphrams I favor the Walthers soft rubber type which is readily available. They lack some detail but they are easy to install with contact cement. After installing the diaphrams place your couplers so that the knuckle is directly under the diaphram with a small bit portruding . This will give you the close coupled effect while the soft rubber lets you run around tight curves without causing a derailment due to the diaphrams clashing. With good wheel sets these cars track and operate much better than the more detailed contemporary cars, especially on modular layouts with lots of rough spots in the track.
Zstripe, thank you for bringing my "misread" to my attention. I at first thought the OP lacked the trucks, and obviously it is the wheel sets - which gives it a whole different tune. I was in a hurry, and I goofed.
My set is not lighted, and I used Intermountain 36 inch wheelsets. For Diagphrams, I used American Limited. KD couplers were mixed - a long shank on one end of the car and a regular one on the other. I few of the cars were airbrushed, and all had decals added to one extent or the other. I used Testors "Sapphire" paint for window tint. This was suggested by an MR article years ago for altering auto windows.
This is all great info folks! I picked up some Intermountain wheel sets (36"...glad I took a quick glance at this thread before I stopped at the LHS as I was thinking 33" ). No diaphragms in stock at the LHS, so I need to order some. Also need to pick up some clear green for the window tint. I have KD's in the stash....no long shanks though I think.
Again, not trying to high jack the OP's initial post. But I think this is all good stuff that benefits all involved and I just wanted to say "thanks" !
Happy modeling!
zstripe The Athearn,BB kits of the sixties,passenger cars did have plastic trucks..All the ones,I ever bought did.. Cheers, Frank
Frank, when first introduced in the late 50's Athearn heavyweight passenger cars had metal trucks as described above.
The streamlined cars always had plastic trucks - but - when first introduced the streamline cars were made of separate parts, not one piece bodies, and in those days the streamline trucks came in three parts and had to be glued together. When the streamline cars were retooled with one piece bodies, the truck was made one piece.
The heavyweight cars retained the metal trucks until the early 70's. In fact I believe the plastic truck appeared the same time the diner, full baggage car, and clerestory roof coach were added to the line.
Sheldon
Athearn sells the wheels separately for the current version of the truck:
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH90504
These are metal wheels with metal axles, insulated on one side for electrical pickup with the Athearn wiper kit. They fit the plastic heavyweight truck, which does use a longer axle than most HO trucks.
As for hijacking the thread- hijack away. This has been most informative.
Did Athearn use different wheel set lengths on different passenger cars? The space between the truck sides is .866 inches- measured from flat to flat. I don't have anything that would measure into the bearing. Anyone know if this requires the long wheelset? If so, it would seem the Athearn wheel set is a no brainer.
I just don't want to get wheels sets that don't fit. I went to the Reboxx site and they list different lengths for 6 wheel trucks and 6 wheel talgo trucks. Any easy way to know which I have? I guess my ignorance is showing, but when I googled it I found references to Talgo trucks, but not enough information to identify them as opposed to more modern trucks. The cars did not include the couplers, which makes me suspect they are talgos.
And, after thinking about some coments here (and other websites), these cars are going to be going forward and seldom, if ever, back up. They'll run in a big circle at shows on the modular layout and good forward performance is paramount. Converting to body mount couplers may be more work than it is worth. Maybe I'll just install truck mounted kadees.
dcyale,
The truck in your picture will work best with the Athearn wheel set I linked to.
Personally, I would not recomment the reboxx wheel sets, they are semi scale narrow wheels and may "bump" through some turnouts.
Actually I was just using the Reboxx website as a data source, as they seem to list the lengths for most manufacturers wheelsets. I think I will get the Athearn wheel sets so they hopefully will work well. Since there are only 5 cars I'm not worried too much about rolling resistance.
After seeing your Photo,,that is not the the passenger cars I was referring to in the beginning,,those are the HWs,I was talking about the 72ft streamliners..No problem,,,with all the advice you have been given,,you can turn out a really nice Model..And I should have said,,mid 50s,not sixties,,,must be a old age thing..
dcyale Actually I was just using the Reboxx website as a data source, as they seem to list the lengths for most manufacturers wheelsets. I think I will get the Athearn wheel sets so they hopefully will work well. Since there are only 5 cars I'm not worried too much about rolling resistance.
The new Athearn wheelsets roll very well, I have about 80 of those cars with those wheelsets.
I have several sets of the old Athearn passenger cars, both heavyweight and streamlined.
I have never bothered to body mount the couplers. With proper wheel gauge and weighting the cars will back, even around 18-inch curves without problems. I routinely back my 8-10 car consists on the BRVRR.
Although it describes my work on Athearn streamlined cars, there is a short pictorial 'how to' on my website that might be relevant. Here is the link:
http://www.intergate.com/~acoates149/SL%20Passenger%20Consist.html
I haven't gone as far as diaphrams or detailed interiors, but now that I have seen what you are doing, I might reconsider.
Good luck with your project and let us know how it turns out.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
BRVRR dcyale, I have several sets of the old Athearn passenger cars, both heavyweight and streamlined... http://www.intergate.com/~acoates149/SL%20Passenger%20Consist.html
I have several sets of the old Athearn passenger cars, both heavyweight and streamlined...
Nice work on those cars ! They look awesome. A couple questions if it's o.k...did you tint the windows on your cars (I couldn't tell in the pictures)? Also, you used regular KD's on the front and back of the cars and you have no troubles negotiating your turns? I need to replace mine and all I have in the stores are regular KD's. Some use a combination of regular and long shank (one on one end and one on the other). Thanks for sharing.
I have been using just #5 KDs on my cars. Since I don't have diaphragms the spacing isn't critical. All of my cars have the original truck mounted couplers. I can easily back a 8-10 car train without problems, even around my 20 and 22.5-inch curves.
I haven't yet tinted the windows in any of the cars. I use a folded sheet of copy paper as a diffuser in the car. With just one bulb the light is too concentrated with out it.
I plan on doing a couple of the vista dome cars for my Santa Fe consist. I'll put in a few people to give them life.
In fact now that I'm thinking about it I think I'll order some parts and get started. Sounds like a good summer project. I might even try a few diaphragms.
Thanks for the inquiry. Good luck with your project.
I have worked up a possible interior for the coach car. I have no idea of what the actual NH cars looked like inside, but I found pictures of "typical" passenger car interiors, and of course these cars aren't scale so strictly following the prototype isn't possible, so I am going for the flavor or the original.
Since these are going to be travel cars for shows they have to be durable. I am planning on producing them through 3d printing as a single piece. This is what I came up with for the coach:
Can someone more familiar with what these types of passenger cars looked like let me know if I've caught the basic idea? Some of the detail is a little thick because of the minimum thicknesses that the process allows.
After I get the design, I have to figure out the colors New Haven used.