Hi All,
So I'm thinking about getting my next locomotive for my layout.
When I got the first one I made sure that it already had a decoder installed so that I could get it running right out of the box. And this worked well, although it would be nice if this unit had sound.
Anyway, now I'm thinking it might be better to get a locomotive without a decoder and to buy a decoder separately.
So I'm just wondering what you all think. Pro's and Con's of installing the decoder myself and things like that.
Also, I was wondering....if down the road I want to get sounds out of my original locomotive will I need to replace the decoder or can I just get a speaker installed.
I guess I should probably mention that my layout is N scale.
Thanks,
Allen
I usually buy DCC Ready and Standard DC locos and install the decoders myself. On changing a non-sound loco to sound it requires more than just putting in a speaker. A sound decoder is required to drive the speaker. There are sound decoders with motor and light functions, etc and then there are sound only decoders that can be installed stand alone or as an add-on to an existing motor decoder.
opaque333I guess I should probably mention that my layout is N scale.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Allen,
Buying a DCC Ready locomotive and installing a non-sound decoder is pretty straight forward. Many like the current Athearn RTR line are all set-up for just that.
Installing a sound decoder can be another story. Finding room for that speaker can sometimes be challenging! Also, by the time you buy the sound decoder, the speaker/enclosure, wiring/connectors and things like Kapton tape - You many time are up to the cost of a locomotive with factory installed DCC/Sound.
Some models like many of the current Kato diesels have a spot milled out in the fuel tank for a round 1.1" speaker/enclosure. They are pretty straight forward. The newer Atlas also have an A-Frame area in the back for dual speakers if you buy the non-DCC 'Silver' version of the DCC/Sound equipped 'Gold' version of the locomotive. Others raelly have no room set aside, and you have to become creative.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Even though I am an old timer in the hobby, I like buying a diesel today that has the bells and whistles already working after programming. At age 75, my "fangers" don't like getting in those hard to reach areas. In the beginning years of DCC I installed my own decoders, but after all these years, I am content to let the factory do it. My diesel inventory is over 300 now (and no, I don't run them all at the same time), and I have discovered two interesting things about DCC. First, I don't like the sound as well as I did at first because my hearing aids pick up some interesting sounds during an op session, and second, my fingers don't do do so well at installing decoders.
But I have more than enough diesels now (wife says "yeah") so I probably won't be adding any more, and since I am old guy, I would rather run than tinker. And the idea of installing them in N scale diesels scares me to death so will keep the HO and enjoy the moment.
Bob
opaque333 So I'm just wondering what you all think. Pro's and Con's of installing the decoder myself and things like that.
Some decoder installs are pretty straightforward; others are not. It depends on the locomotive and a decoder that will fit under the shell. If your locomotive has an NMRA 8-pin socket, it can be just a simple plug 'n play installation. If not, you'll have to do some soldering to attach the motor, track, and headlight wires to the right pads on the decoder. It also depends how handy and comfortable you are working in N-scale.
As others have noted, sound installs are a different animal. And putting sound in an N-scale enclosure can be quite daunting - i.e. unless you're either experienced or you''re willing to pay someone else to do the work for you.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Installing a speaker in an N scale locomotive is difficult because most of the time the frame has to be milled out for it. That decreases the weight of the loco which in turn reduces the number of cars that the loco can handle. Standard decoders and sound decoders are about the same size, so that part is not an issue. There are two alternatives that may interest you.
One is to use a Soundtraxx 'SourroundTraxx' system. This is a stationary system that has a series of speakers place around the layout so the sound appears to follow the train. http://www.soundtraxx.com/surround/
The second way is to put a sound decoder and speaker in a boxcar. Then you can couple it up behind the locomotive and the sound will be in the train. The sound car can be consisted with the locomotive to control the bell and horn sounds.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Hi
I would say it depends on your abilities.
I can fry a toaster taking it out of the box, so electronics and I are "not compatible". I buy all my locos with DCC OnBoard OR would have to pay someone to install them. If you are a wiz at soldering and electronics, go for it!!
It should be mentioned here that some "DCC READY" locos means they have the wiring all done..all you need to do is buy a "plug N Play" decoder and unplug the jumper It comes with and plug in the decoder. This I can do, though.
Other "DCC READY" locos simply means they have prepared it for a decoder to be wired in {often meaning only that it was designed with its motor isolated from the frame- a requirement for DCC Decoders} THOSE I, personally, stay away from!
Now, sound is a whole different ball of wax...it requires a sound decoder and a speaker both...so chances are your first DCC loco will have to have the decoder replaced AND have to find a space for the speaker unless the manufacturer left a space for it with holes drilled for the sound to come out.
It should also be pointed out that while it can be done..N scale is awfully small to do these conversions with. Many on here have complained about: 1} lack of space to install a decoder and speaker, 2} The "tinny sound" of the speaker in N scale, and 3} disappointment with doing it yourself rather than buying N scales already installed! SO be forewarned.
If I were in N scale now {I have been in the past on DC only}, I, personally, would buy them already done for DCC. But that is based on my abilities {lack thereof} and patience {or lack thereof} and desire to "have ti run out of the box".
But, hey, if you are good at soldering and electronics, then go for installing yourself!
Now I would also mention periodically here, there is the argument about do-it-yourself DCC versus buy-it-ready. The argument usually settles around which is cheaper. It seems it appears cheaper to buy the components and install yourself, but buy-it-ready can be just as cheap without all the work. there are staunch supporters for both methods, and usually it seems to be a wash on the deal.
If you like "get it running right out of the box" as you say, I woudl strongly recommend you buy DCC On Board wiht sound installed if you think you want that too. It may save you a lot of grief!!!
Have fun and enjoy the hobby!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
If you compare the prices of the same locomotive with and without DCC and sound, you will find that even at MSRP it's cheaper to buy the engine with the decoder and speaker already installed than it is to buy the engine, decoder and speaker separately. I'm assuming you want a quality sound decoder, not a bottom-end one. For the price, you can take the engine out of the box and put it on the track, and if there's anything wrong you can take / send it back. Compared with trying to do the installation yourself, even in HO, I'd go with the pre-installed system every time.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Even with modern electronics, the current controller selection and other realities almost ace out N scale at the user installed sound controller level. (Notice I said almost). Have you ever considered watchmaking as a hobby?
I will admit to never delving deeply into or hearing any good N gaugle lcos with sound. Having run into enough troubles trying to shoehorn a sound contoller into brass HOn3 tenders, I would not enjoy or attempt to use my skills already acquired in DCC conversion to doing an N scale upgrade to sound controller combo. The most giagantic speaker I could get into my HOn3 loco was a super bass 0.9 inch speaker. I fear this micro speaker would be far too large for an N gauge model
I agree with others. Either purchase what you can get already fully sound and DCC installed out of the box and pray the sound is decent or pickup the new Tsunami external sound system.
Nothing is frozen or fixed forever. With miniaturization and ever smaller electronics, N scale might be very doable in this regard sooner than one might think, however.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
so could one take a group of 4,5, maybe 6 locos that aren't DCC ready and convert them when the time comes. these locos being very special to this person? after said decoder installation could this person add sound? because this person is readying the switch to DCC after the holidays.
thank you.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Yes...but it again depends on:
N-scale is smaller than HO so it presents itself with some unique challenges to that scale. Sound in N-scale will not be as good as with the larger scales. (Speakers don't scale down very well the smaller they become.) A viable alternative is the one presented before with placing the sound decoder and speaker into a boxcar or buying a sound system/speaker arrangement to place under your layout.
Thanks for all the responses.
I suspected I would need a new decoder and speaker to convert the existing locomotive to have sound.
The audio system tied in to the layout is really cool, but I have a small layout and I think it's a bit overkill for me. The idea about mounting a sound decoder and speaker in a box car is great. I may end up doing something like that for my current locomotive.
I'm fairly good with a soldering iron and electronics, but when it comes to having to alter the shell to make room for a speaker I don't think I want to do that myself. I would likely end up destroying the shell. I was thinking DCC ready might mean that the space for the speaker was already there.
Anyway, I think I will just purchase locomotive pre-installed with DCC/sound.
Is it safe to assume that if a locomotive comes with sound that it is DCC equipped?
MisterBeasley If you compare the prices of the same locomotive with and without DCC and sound, you will find that even at MSRP it's cheaper to buy the engine with the decoder and speaker already installed than it is to buy the engine, decoder and speaker separately. I'm assuming you want a quality sound decoder, not a bottom-end one. For the price, you can take the engine out of the box and put it on the track, and if there's anything wrong you can take / send it back. Compared with trying to do the installation yourself, even in HO, I'd go with the pre-installed system every time.
I've been looking and it doesn't seem like there are many N scale locomotives with sound pre-installed.
I found one site, www.dccinstalled.com, where they will put a DCC decoder into just about any locomotive you want. But these don't appear to have sound capability.
Do you have any resources that you prefer when buying yours? I'm looking for Diesel locomotives for moving freight.
Thanks again,
opaque333 Is it safe to assume that if a locomotive comes with sound that it is DCC equipped?
Yes. Sound-only decoders are only installed along with a motor decoder.
What era of N-scale diesel locomotive are you looking for?
If the N scale loco comes with DCC or if you install you own DCC decoder, the general rule is that if you decide to add sound later, you must rip out the old decoder and buy a sound decoder board. This will act as both a normal decoder but have sound included on it. Again N scale is currently not real internal sound friendly. Its just too small and the current electronics and speakers are just to large to conveniently be shoehorned into the small bodies and tenders.
In all scales, it is best to chose sound up front or you will be sitting around with a lot of removed, simple decoders on hand piling up in a cigar box as you upgrade to sound. There are some few sound only boards to add on, but that is just more real-estate that you don't have in N scale that has a decoder already in it.
tstage What era of N-scale diesel locomotive are you looking for? Tom
Not really any particular era. I'm not really modeling any particular place or time frame with my layout.
gandydancer19 The second way is to put a sound decoder and speaker in a boxcar. Then you can couple it up behind the locomotive and the sound will be in the train. The sound car can be consisted with the locomotive to control the bell and horn sounds.
How would one get power to the decoder using this method? Would I need to jimmy rig something or are there trucks available that have been fitted with leads to allow wires to be attached?