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Adhesive Question

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Adhesive Question
Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, July 02, 2012 1:13 AM
I an working on a sign project that will use Plastruct Acrylic sheets for neon tube. It will be joined to plastic menu board letters. What I need to know is (and this may sound like a dumb question) is what would be the best adhesive to perform the operation. The acrylic will be fairly thin in both thickness and width, so I would need something fairly fast acting. I am thinking Super Glue but I would need to have a little bit or working time. Unfortunately, I am not an expert when it comes to adhesives. Any help anyone can provide would be welcomed.
Tags: Adhesives
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Posted by John Busby on Monday, July 02, 2012 3:25 AM

FRRYKid
I an working on a sign project that will use Plastruct Acrylic sheets for neon tube. It will be joined to plastic menu board letters. What I need to know is (and this may sound like a dumb question) is what would be the best adhesive to perform the operation. The acrylic will be fairly thin in both thickness and width, so I would need something fairly fast acting. I am thinking Super Glue but I would need to have a little bit or working time. Unfortunately, I am not an expert when it comes to adhesives. Any help anyone can provide would be welcomed.

If loctite is available in the US.

They do a range of engineering super glues you would want loctite 401 I think thats the thickish one it gives a little bit of time to adjust things.

Another one worth looking at is for difficult  materials by the same brand.

Then there is the ZAP range of super glues they do several types as well these will be cheaper and available at a good hobby store.

If these don't work you may well have to resort to MEK Methyl Ethyl Ketone this stuff is realy potent.

Not to be used lightly, this stuff will have you floating around the ceiling real fast if not used in a very well ventilated area.

The hang over with out the benefit of the boozy party the night before is not fun either.

Hope this helps

regards John

 

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Posted by galaxy on Monday, July 02, 2012 3:28 AM

If you need "working time" simply get the "gel long setting" super glue. It is a gel-like substance as opposed to the liquid regular super glue.

It takes  longer to set. allowing you time to position or set your letters in proper place.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/4/3/sg_g_peasy/overview/Loctite-Super-Glue-Power-Easy-Gel-Control.htm

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Microscale-MB-50-Micro-Bond-Thick-p/460-mb-50.htm

 

 

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Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.

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Posted by dstarr on Monday, July 02, 2012 8:13 AM

I would use a plastic welder cement.  These are water white liquids sold in small bottles with a brush in the cap. Tenax, Testors, Ambroid are some of the  trade names.  The stuff dissolves the plastic into a sticky goo and then evaporates letting the goo harden back into plastic.  The joints are nearly as strong as the virgin plastic.  It works on styrene and acrylic plastics.  That's just about every plastic used in model railroading except that slippery engineering plastic they use for handrails on road switchers.   Apply a very small amount to the joint and capillary action will suck it inside.  Additional benefit, small spills and whoopsies will often dry up without marking the plastic too badly.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, July 02, 2012 9:09 AM

I don't see that you need the strength or hardness of Superglue.  I would go with my old favorie, Aileen's Tacky Glue.  It goes on white and sets clear.  It has a long working time but still sets up firm in an hour or so.  It's just an adhesive - it does not interact chemically with the materials being bonded.  It's also a cheap craft-store item, and it has a long shelf-life if you keep the cap on the bottle when not in use.

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Posted by tstage on Monday, July 02, 2012 11:22 AM

The problem with most "superglues" and clear acrylics is that the fumes will attack and whiten the surface of the acrylic.  (There is one brand that doesn't do this but I don't have the info readily available.)  For acrylic-to-acrylic bonding, I like the liquid adhesives previously mentioned.  The surfaces actually "meld" (melt+weld) together and leave a clear finish when cured.

Tom

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Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, July 02, 2012 1:40 PM
To clarify a little, the letters I am using are a form of styrene plastic as I have used them previously on two other buildings and glued them with Testors model cement. I will need to join the acrylic to itself where I need to turn corners and the styrene to the acrylic for the "neon" on the letters. I am not sure on the "meld" type cements as the acrylic will not be very thick. (It is only .010") It also won't be very wide either. I'm afraid that the cement would melt the acrylic into nothing. Hence why I am leaning toward the CAs.
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Posted by tstage on Monday, July 02, 2012 2:01 PM

FRRYKid,

Even 10-mil (0.010") thick stock should work fine with liquid adhesive like Testor's.  Like any project, you just don't want apply too much.  Can you try some pieces of strap out first to see if it's going to work?

Tom

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Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, July 02, 2012 2:18 PM
I had some scrap acrylic from straightening a badly cut edge and tried the testors on it and found it didn't stick worth a darn. Hence the CA thought.
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Posted by tstage on Monday, July 02, 2012 3:09 PM

There are also "watery thin" acrylic adhesives for bonding acrylic-to-acrylic.  (If you have a plastic suppler in your town, they would be the guys to talk to.)  You would also need some VERY good ventilation as that type of adhesive it quite smelly and evaporates quickly.

The best way to apply it is with the acrylic pieces already clamped together and a pipette.  The adhesive is applied to the seam and capillary action (wicking) pulls the watery adhesive into the seam.  It does take some practice though.

Tom

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Monday, July 02, 2012 8:04 PM

For Acrylic to anything, including itself, I would recommend Ambroid's ProWeld. It is specifically formulated for Acrylics and other plastics. For something thin, just use a small brush to apply it, it sets in 10-15 seconds. Micromart sells "SameStuff" which actually is the same as ProWeld, (I've used both).

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, July 02, 2012 11:36 PM

FRRYKid

As others have warned, CA on styrene will craze the acrylic sheets if they are clear, which I assume they must be to replicate neon tube. Even the use of standard styrene solvents will negatively affect the finish of the clear styrene.

Mr Beasley has suggested Eileen's Tacky Glue and I agree that it is the safest glue to use. It sticks well, dries clear and definately won't mess up the plastic.

You could also use Microscale Micro Krystal Clear but it is much more expensive than the Eileen's stuff and it does essentially the same thing.

Dave

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, July 03, 2012 11:00 AM
As to the question of crazing, what about Pacer's Poly Zap Glue? It is a CA and showa in its description that as long as a Kicker is not used it will not fog clear plastics and it shows that it will adhere styrene and most acrylics. http://www.supergluecorp.com/zap/zap-glues/poly-zap
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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, July 03, 2012 11:55 AM

FRRYKid,

Mercury Adhesives is the brand I was trying to remember yesterday when I posted, which I was able to find on the Internet.  The M1000F below was recommended to me by one of my LHSes and it worked VERY well on styrene windows - without fogging them up.

It's a "low odor", medium viscosity CA, which should give you at least a little working time for small adjustments.  (Should work fine on Plexiglas, too.)  I just picked it up at my LHS.

Tom

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Posted by gmcrail on Thursday, July 05, 2012 12:05 AM

FRRYkid,

As has been posted, Testors or MEK (which is what the Testor's liquid cement  primarily consists of) won't touch acrylic.  However, Tenax 7-R is very effective.  I assembled a Custom Model Railroads 105' turntable kit, which is made solely of acrylic sheet, using it, and it works great.  One caution:  it is very volatile, so you don't want to leave the cap off for any length of time.  It can disappear on you in a hurry.  And I wouldn't sniff the stuff.  Not at all healthy.    Another good product is Plastruct's own Plastic Weld.  CA has the issue that it has very low shear strength.  I would not recommend it for anything that requires structural strength.

---

Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com

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