Question: "Reviving" old dry transfers?

[chutton01]

I have a few pieces of model industrial equipment painted to a nice flat finish, the kind that water-slide decals just hate, and that looks good enough that I don't want to fool around with glosscote or Future oversprays. So, Dry Transfers are the way to go here. 

I also have a Woodland Scenics Dry Transfer sheet with several rather useful labels (Directions and Warning labels - it also has some manufacturer's logos for oil companies - makes sense since I believe this sheet came with the Fuel Filler/Pump House - some automobile manfacturers (less sensible), and oddly some manufacturers like MayTag ).  Anyway, this dry-transfer sheet must be at least a decade or more old, and while it was kept in a dry, dark location, I had used it previously so it was not sealed in a air-tight package.

I did a test run of a few unneeded Dry Transfers on a painted plastic test surface to see what issues if any would arise - and to my surprise the transfers did not transfer at all - even with a quite vigorous burnishing, it remained attached to the clear plastic transfer sheet. Well, that's not good.

The warning signs & labels are nice, but not worth hunting down and purchasing a new one of this Transfer Sheet - so I'd like to "revive" this sheet if at all possible. Has anyone come across this issue before, and if so, what is the one weird trick that single mom in your home-town used to revive old dry transers - she won't tell me.

[dknelson]

My impression has always been that dry transfers do best on the same gloss surface that decals need.  I have read suggestions about cutting small slits in letters that are to be placed on rougher surfaces. 

But it sounds more to me like your trasfers have over time become attached to the top sheet, perhaps due to seasonal moisture?  Other than a more "pointed" burnisher, such as a pencil, I have no helpful suggestion.  But in an extreme case I wonder if a sharp knife under one edge of a letter to sort of "start the process going" could work.  In any event these sound like transfers that if you ever do succeed in getting them to work, should be well sealed afterwards

Dave Nelson

[chutton01]

Thanks for the suggestion Dave

What I ended up doing is - burnishing like the dickens, using (as you stated) a more pointed burnisher.
The Transfer finally transfered onto the test surface, but of about 3 I tested (the logos are for crates I see now, having the sheet in front of me, hence Maytag, GE, Lee Jeans, etc) 2 almost immediately fell off with little to no pressure, and the remaining test one...just fell off after I touched it. 

I'm calling it a hopeless cause, and a lesson to all you kids out there to use your Woodland scenics transfers within a decade or so of purchase...

[don7]

A couple of weeks ago I came across some old dry transfer decals that were about the same age as yours. While they did transfer, they all fell off of the item that I had tried to adhere to.

They were a bunch of old CPR and PGR decals, to bad.

[dknelson]

chutton01

The Transfer finally transfered onto the test surface, but of about 3 I tested (the logos are for crates I see now, having the sheet in front of me, hence Maytag, GE, Lee Jeans, etc) 2 almost immediately fell off with little to no pressure, and the remaining test one...just fell off after I touched it. 

I'm calling it a hopeless cause ...

Oh no!   I hate to hear the word hopeless.  I prefer to tilt at windmills forever.  So we need to get to first principles here.   What is it that makes brand new dry transfers stick to the surface long enough to be sealed in place and hence, how can that either be revived and refreshed, or in the alternative, how can the surface on which we burnish the dry transfers be made slightly adhesive?    

I am thinking that whatever adhesive is involved, it is pretty "weak." The closest parallel is the now ubiquitous "Post-It Note."  That adhesive gets weaker each time you lift and replace the Post It Note, but it is still there and still working for quite a number of times.  I know there are glue sticks that can make any piece of paper into a Post It Note -- in fact I used them as part of my "domino" based layout planning on a sheet of grid paper -- but that glue stick stuff is still too gloppy to make a dry transfer snuggle down on a surface.  Maybe if an exquisitly tiny piece was spread with a swab so that it nearly disappears?

I have 2 other ideas, which of course I myself have not tried!   Try taking a fresh Post It Note on the surface to which you want the transfer to adhere, burnish it in place, and then lift it off.  Now apply your dry transfer.  I am thinking some slight amount of adhesive should be left on the surface.  if not, try again with scotch type tape, but this time lightly burnsihed or hardly burnished at all, and again the goal is to leave some tiny tiny amoung of adhesive on the targeted surface.  There does not have to be much to have the transfer adhere -- you just want it to hold its location long enough to seal it in place with dullcoat or similar product.

The other idea is to put something sticky on the back of the transfer itself -- again not as strong as tape but weak like the adhesive on a Post It Note.  And yet it needs to be smooth and nongloppy to coin a phrase.  And the product that comes to mind is .... fruit juice.   Think how a drop of fruit juice on the countertop dries to a smooth even surface yet remains ever so slightly sticky.  Now real fruit juice has dyes and stuff in it, but how about sugar water, boiled so that it is truly absorbed, left to cook, and then applied to the back of the dry transfer with a cotton swab? 

Dave Nelson

[jsoderq]

My understanding is these were made with some kind of wax coating on the paper that allowed the transfer. I cant think of any practical way to rejuvenate or replace that. The only thing i might try would be to cut out around the original logo  and use a very high quality graphic arts spray glue on it before transferring. It may not work at all as the original logo may crumble upon trying to transfer it

[chutton01]

dknelson

Oh no!   I hate to hear the word hopeless.  I prefer to tilt at windmills forever. 

Sorry Dave, but I've long ago learned to cut my losses in this hobby (learned long ago as a teen, I dropped a Pirate Model cast metal bus which shattered - those cost real money then - and eventually after a lot of effort to no avail, I learned that some things just aren't recoverable).  In this case, the expired dry transfer sheet was placed in a round bin for collection by some gentlemen in orange jump-suits and a big truck.

Think how a drop of fruit juice on the countertop dries to a smooth even surface yet remains ever so slightly sticky.  Now real fruit juice has dyes and stuff in it, but how about sugar water, boiled so that it is truly absorbed, left to cook, and then applied to the back of the dry transfer with a cotton swab?

Sorry, but sugar water just brings up the famed Archer quote "Malory Archer: Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants."

There seems to be surprisingly little info on how dry transfers actually do work - one website called it differential transfer (not to be confused w/ automotive drive trains) from the backing sheet having less adhesion to another surface (the model), this having greater adhesion - didn't explain how the dry transfers avoid collecting lint on the unprotected side.

[MikeFF]

It is probably dangerous to rely on memory, especially at my age...but, here goes.  I recall reading that a dry transfer is actually a wax and that the burnishing causes it to melt, just a bit, and adhere to the surface.

Could be totally wrong.  I also recall that there was a reasonably well known MR author who ran a company that made them.  

Maybe someone else can remember.

 

 

[rrebell]

First wash them off to get rid of any dust. Then microwave (I did mine for 1 min. but other times may be more appropriate). Make sure you put a cup of water in with the transfers so you don't damage the micro and also make sure you put the transfers sticky side up.  Last coat your finished product as the transfers are not as resilient as they once were.

[chutton01]

rrebell

First wash them off to get rid of any dust. Then microwave (I did mine for 1 min. but other times may be more appropriate). Make sure you put a cup of water in with the transfers so you don't damage the micro and also make sure you put the transfers sticky side up.  Last coat your finished product as the transfers are not as resilient as they once were.

Hmm, interesting -  I have some other dry transfers coming up on the 9+ year mark - maybe I should do a test run with this procedure...

[rrebell]

My test ones were old WS from over 10 years ago.

[Sage79]

I know this is a pretty old thread but I thought I'd chime in since I just had this problem with some Campbell Road dry transfers and this is the only thread I could find on the 'net that addressed this problem.  The lettering I needed was not available in any other brand/format so I was determined.  The transfers originally did not work at all.  I tried the microwave approach with no luck.  I used a spray adhesive (Elmers is the only one I tried) in a relatively light coating on the back of the sheet.  After letting it dry so it was no longer wet but still tacky, the transfers worked!  It left some adhesive in areas where I didn't want it and it's best to cut the lettering so only the word/number desired is on the car side to avoid transferring other characters accidently.  

[chutton01]

Sage79

I used a spray adhesive (Elmers is the only one I tried) in a relatively light coating on the back of the sheet.  After letting it dry so it was no longer wet but still tacky, the transfers worked!  It left some adhesive in areas where I didn't want it and it's best to cut the lettering so only the word/number desired is on the car side to avoid transferring other characters accidently.

Heh, it's kind of amusing to see a thread of mine that I forgot about pop-up years later. What you did, sage, seems to be basically gluing the transfer (ink) to the model surface, sort of like gluing photopaper to cardstock or backdrops.  Meaning, according to the wiki entry - which may or may not have been there in 2012 (entry history is vague) - you restored the transfer adhesive in a fashion:

The decal itself is on a backing material such as paper or plastic sheeting much like a transparency. The dry transfer is placed in the desired location with the backing side up. The decal is then applied by burnishing the backing with a stylus or similar object such as a ballpoint pen. The contact side of the decal includes a pressure-sensitive adhesive; the combination of heat and pressure causes the decal to stick more strongly to the new surface than to the backing. When the backing is removed, the decal remains.

Makes sense, although the PSA link seems to imply that transfers lose their adhesiveness under high or low temperature extremes (range I guess is material dependant). Great, leave your models out in a cold garage or hot humid attic, and find the lettering dropped off.

The "adhesive in areas where I didn't want" is not great sounding, looks like it could really mess up a nice finish on a model. So far in the past 4+ years I've gotten along with regular decal stock.

[DSchmitt]

Some info on dry transfer by the premier supplier to military modelers

http://www.archertransfers.com/PAGE_FAQ.html

http://www.archertransfers.com/PAGE_Instructions.html

This link has many products of interest to model railroaders

http://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsMain.html