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ATSF logo which one is correct ?

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ATSF logo which one is correct ?
Posted by stefanuccio on Sunday, May 08, 2011 5:47 PM

Hi guys

I am puzzled by the ATSF logo that appears on my zebra stripes motive power [All of them atlas ho] Reserching the ATSF logo  of the early 60's this appears most of the time to be a blue cross in a white circle and background but sometimes also appears to be consisting of a black cross in a white circle and background This is how the logo appears on my locos

ALCO RS-1    appear in    all blue

EMD GP-7     appear in     all black

FM H16-44     appear also in  all black

Which is the correct logo ? or are both correct ?

thanks very much for your reply

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:13 PM

Santa Fe used a blue and white 'box' logo on it's early diesels. In1960 the blue and yellow 'box' logo was adopted. It was used until 1974. It was commonly used with the pinstripe paint scheme. From 1972 to 1996 the railroad adopted the yellow-bonnet scheme.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by Southwest Chief on Sunday, May 08, 2011 7:23 PM

Hi again Stefano.

I want to be sure which heralds you are referring to. 

First this is only on zebra stripe locos, correct?  If so then Jeff's info, while correct, might confuse you as he is referencing multiple paint schemes and not just zebra stripes.

I figured some photos would help out.  Both are modern paint jobs on museum locos, but both are helpful, and in color...which sometimes is hard to obtain for zebra stripe locos.

"black cross in white circle"

 

"blue cross in white circle"

 

Both logos are correct, and to be honest I'm not sure if anyone has ever figured out which should be applied to a particular loco without a photo to back it up.  And then you really need a color photo to be sure.  A lot depends on where they were painted.  Some locations used the blue, while others used the black.

Interesting info is that blue version was supposed to be holographic, appearing blue at one angle and black at another.  My Life-Like Proto 2000 GP7 (zebra striped) has this holographic effect.  Pretty cool.

Oh and those zebra hand rails on the first photo (loco 2301) are not prototypical.  At least I don't think they are.  Haven't seen any photos of this on Santa Fe locos in photos of the correct era.

Hope this helps.

 

To confuse you even more with zebra stripes, some locos had the ATSF lettering with periods after the letters (A. T. S. F.), some included an ampersand (A. T. &. S. F.), while others just had ATSF, no periods, no ampersand.

And even more confusion, some zebra stripe locos had white stripes, while others had silver/aluminum stripes.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by stefanuccio on Sunday, May 08, 2011 8:52 PM

Hi Jeff

thanks very much for your reply

Hi Chief

thanks for your reply and pics .Unfortunately i am unable to see the pics as they do not show on my screen Also for the overview on the different aspects of paint schemes and logos.Of course i was referring to the ATSF zebra stripes diesel so you obviously have understood and related to my question

It is certainly confusing but i am relieved that at list both logos are correct and i start to have an idea about my new prject with the American railroading wich is very fashinating and i am very excited to the idea of going deeper in to the history of the ATSF to try to model this as prototopically as possible

Thanks again for your guidance

regards

stefano

 

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Posted by stefanuccio on Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:12 PM

Hi Matt

I hope you dont mind but i have to ask about the ATSF  and the AT&SF lettering on zebra stripes diesel

is there any reasons for the different lettering ? do they have a chronological meaning? or like the logo are both correct for the zebras ?

thanks again

stefano 

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:25 PM

Where it was painted, who painted it, what year it was painted, etc.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by stefanuccio on Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:58 PM

Hi Jeff

thanks very much for your reply

stefano

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Posted by stefanuccio on Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:10 PM

hi

Looking at my ATSF zebra stripes diesel [Atlas ho] i noticed that the lettering varies according to the model of the locomotive for exp.

ALCO RS-1                    ATSF

FM H16-44                     ATSF

EMD GP 7                      AT&SF

I guess that the older built locomotive have the lettering in ATSF and the recent  one AT&SF

Am i correct or is there any other explanation?

thans again

stefano

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:28 PM

That would be another example of where it was painted. The RS1 was first produced in 1941, the GP7 in 1949 and the H16-44 in 1950. Different shops along the Santa Fe line had different stencils and used what they had.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


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Posted by stefanuccio on Monday, May 09, 2011 8:42 AM

Hi Jeff

Again thanks very much for your self explaining reply

regards

stefano

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Posted by kansaspacific1 on Monday, May 09, 2011 1:16 PM

Stefano:

Let me preface by saying that if my suppostions are incorrect or misleading, I would ask Andy Sperandeo to jump in here as he is a Santa Fe expert.

That said, my source is the Santa Fe Modelers Association website: atsfrr.com

The John Moore clinic on Santa Fe Steel waycars (Denver convention 2010) powerpoint presentation # 1 provides the following information for reporting marks on waycars (cabooses):

Pre 1938                    A. T. & S. F       (With periods and ampersand)

1938                           A. T. S. F.          (With periods)

November 1943       A T S F              (Just letters.)

I would assume that reporting marks on all freight equipment and locomotives changed at those dates as well.

In any case, Stefano, I would suggest a visit to atsfrr.com for just loads of information on the Santa Fe railroad.  Sorry, but I can't remember how to make the url into a link in this forum.  But you can just type it into your browser.

Chuck

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Monday, May 09, 2011 1:26 PM

kansaspacific1
Sorry, but I can't remember how to make the url into a link in this forum.

I'll do it for you then.

Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    April, 2011
  • 273 posts
Posted by stefanuccio on Monday, May 09, 2011 6:52 PM

Chuck and Jeff

thanks very much for the informations

regards

stefano

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