True, one seldom sees a dock that services reefers on both sides modeled, the protoype handle ice movement to such a dock via an ice bridge that contained a conveyor and related mechanicals to convey block ice from storage, these could be quite elaborate in design and span hundreds of feet depending how far from the ice source the dock was located. They require a lot of real estate to be credible but are loaded with detail!
There seems to be confusion about the purpose of low level doors, some facalities had a receiving platform for raw ice on the lower platform and re-iceing on the second, this would be for a storage house that was supplied with ice from a secondary source, all mechanicals would be contained within the structure unless it was related to an ice harvesting operation, these had exterior stages and conveyors aplenty, most contained a small power house as well . The upper doors provided a means to extract ice for the loading deck, some applications were mechanical in nature using a chain rail to move the bocks , most required manual labor regardless of means.
Dave
doctorwayne: Neat pictures! Thank you. Pretty good pictures from everybody else too!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Nice-looking reefers, Guy.
I think that a lot of modellers, especially those of us in the pre-transition era, are drawn to reefers by their colourful paint schemes. They really enliven the appearance of a train of plain black and boxcar red rolling stock.
Both the CNR and CPR painted their reefers boxcar red in my late '30s modelling era, but lots of imported produce showed up in more colourful American cars. I probably have a disproportionate number on my southwestern Ontario-based layout, although not all would be on the layout at the same time.
I have several Red Caboose cars like yours, although mine are done in an older lettering style:
I used a similar paint scheme on my home road's Accurail cars, too:
Tichy also makes a nice version of a PFE car:
The Athearn Blue Box cars can be upgraded, too, with better details and more accurate paint:
This one's also an Athearn BB, but I added Tichy ice platforms and some other details, including new "wood" ends and a scratchbuilt roof:
This Intermountain car is a bit too modern for my era, and will eventually be repainted in an earlier scheme:
Here's CN's flashy scheme on an Athearn car (with new roof and ends):
And the CPR's equally-gaudy contribution (Accurail)
Wayne
One thing that needs to be added to this discussion is that East coast icing operations looked different than west coast Icing. In this thread, we are getting a nice mix of the two. Many of the pics in the ATSF link of Dr Wayne are West coast prototype. Check out the book by Church et all on PFE icing operations.
http://www.signaturepress.com/pfe.html
There you will find a wide variety of icing platforms, Ice plants reefers etc. all centered around PFE ops mainly in the west.. The Walthers Ice storage building looks pretty east coast to my eye. The platform itself is a pretty good stand in or a PFE platform.
In the west, Ice harvesting was gradually replaced by ice manufacturing plants. Most of these plants were of slab concrete construction and used a variety of methods to deliver Ice to cars including the mechanical icing machines shown Dr. Wayne's link.. Most of these operations were huge, so modeling them will require a bit of compression (what else is new).
The afore mentioned book has rough dimensions and specs. for the standard PFE platforms in use during this era. I am in the planning stages of a scratch building a PFE platform and Ice manufacturing plant from plans and photo interpretation taken from this book.
To me the cars are as a big reason why I like reefer OPs. Here are a couple of pics of cars on my layout (in the West):
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
doctorwayneIce-activated ac uses the melt water from a sump below the ice boxes, passing it through a heat exchanger downstream of the main blower fan. The somewhat-warmed water was then returned to the ice bunkers, cascading over the ice blocks and returning, chilled, to the sump to be re-circulated. Wayne
The video "New England Glory - The Mountain Division" by Herron Rail Video shows a short clip of preping the B&M train "The Mountaineer" at North Station in Boston in 1946. The video shows a crew adding ice to the ice activated A/C on one of the passenger cars. Probably not worth buying the video if all you are interested in is icing, but the video is a great view of passenger and freight operations on the B&M and MEC in the NH mountains in 1946 and 1951.
https://www.ribbonrail.com/HerronRail/product_info.php?products_id=46&osCsid=73sb9kkigcrov5njs3lvl3nf66
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
JWK RailwayThank you Mr. Paine. Those U-tube video clips were very educational. What was interesting is how the modern ice house used a front-end loader or fork lift to get a number of blocks on a skid into the upper level doors. (Probably cheaper and faster than building wooden ramps). I guess because of how much room the ramps would take up on a model layout, Cornerstone left them off.
The front loader must have been on one of the other ice harvest videos, at Thompson they adjust the ramp when a level in the ice house is filled.
The ramp is not a necessary addition to an ice house unless there is an adjacent pond with clean fresh water. Typically, ice would arrive at the ice house in a reefer that is designated for ice transport service. The source could be from a lake that had ice harvesting or from an urban area that had power to run an ice making referigeration plant. Many rural areas did not get elecrtic power until the Rural Electrification Program in the 1930s - one of the economic stimulys programs (to us an modern term) to get the country out of the Great Depression. Power companies did not want to spend the capital investment to run power lines out to sparsely separated rural locations (similar to not extending high speed internet or cell phone service today )
Rustoleum makes a line of multi-colored textured spray paints.
http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=31
I use the mostly-black one for roofing, both flat "tar" roofs and shingles. It gives a great "speckled" look. It can be touched up with weathering powders, too. They have a number of other shades, too. The brown with black specks is excellent for stone walls.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Great photos. There certainly were a lot of variations on how to ice a reefer.
Thank you guys. Boxcar Red might fit in nicely on my layout...
Dr. Wayne, thanks for those links. Very cool photos there. If anyone hasn't clicked on the ice chute pic
it would be an awesome thing to model ! I've never seen that type before.
Also, thanks for the close up of your rusty door hinges. The doors on this kit seem a little challenging to spring to life (the way they are cast as part of the wall).
I've been considering using black masking tape for roofing as well, thanks.
It's cool to know that I could place the icing platforms between tracks if it's too tight to fit in front of the house. That may come in very handy...
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Dave is correct, as I've seen similar pictures, too. The Walthers platforms include a cast-in representation of a chain-type conveyor for moving the ice blocks. Where ice/brine mixtures were used, the platforms often had tracks that allowed a chute-equipped machine to travel alongside the reefers, depositing the crushed ice and salt mixture directly into the cars' bunkers. There are some photos HERE and here's a photo of a platform between tracks.
Flashwave: I recall seeing a picture of a 'between the tracks' icing platform but please don't ask me where. As I recall it was a rather long platform capable of serving many reeefers at once. The ice blocks came from the ice house via an underground conveyer system and there was a conveyer on the icing platform to move the blocks along. I would guess the era to be 40's to 50's because of the large scale of the operation. LIke they say, there is a prototype for eveything!
In addition to ice-activated air conditioning, there was the Pullman Electro-Mechanical system, Pullman Mechanical air conditioning and the Safety-Carrier steam-activated system.
Ice-activated ac uses the melt water from a sump below the ice boxes, passing it through a heat exchanger downstream of the main blower fan. The somewhat-warmed water was then returned to the ice bunkers, cascading over the ice blocks and returning, chilled, to the sump to be re-circulated. Depending on the layout of other underfloor equipment, there might be more than two ice bunkers.
I used ice-activated ac on this business car, a shortened Athearn observation:
...and mechanical air conditioning for all other ac-equipped cars:
The ice bays for the C.P.R. in Moose Jaw were boxcar red, like every building the C.P.R. owned. A new thought, these ice bays were only for passenger cars, and were used for air conditioning, which was a common practice until the 1950's and early 60's. I haven't read on this forum any mention in the U.S. of icing passenger cars, was it that long ago they quit using ice on passenger trains, take a look at those old passenger cars on your layout and look underneath and you will see 2 rectangular boxes with hinges, thats where the ice went, any replies???
Capt. Grimek How common was it to paint the Walther's style ice houses a darker color than white? I asked in a previous post about the dark roof shingling. That surprised me thinking that keeping solar heat off of the building and roof would be of paramount importance. Did railroads ever paint them the colors of their lines? How dark is too dark for an ice house? I've seen grey, but mostly light yellow/creams or whites. Thanks
How common was it to paint the Walther's style ice houses a darker color than white? I asked in a previous post about the dark roof shingling. That surprised me thinking that keeping solar heat off of the building and roof would be of paramount importance.
Did railroads ever paint them the colors of their lines? How dark is too dark for an ice house?
I've seen grey, but mostly light yellow/creams or whites.
Thanks
I stuck with white partly because I already have a lot of darker coloured structures. I've seen pictures of CNR icehouses in the '50s and the '30s, though, and all appear to have been painted boxcar red.
As for keeping the heat out, CNR painted a number of wood-sided reefers with aluminum paint in 1933, in an experiment to test the reflective value as compared to their standard boxcar red. The cars were re-painted boxcar red in 1935, so I would guess the benefits were negligible. Their first overhead bunker steel reefers, in 1939, were painted boxcar red, too. In 1943 they changed the steel reefers to grey, but the wooden ones remained boxcar red right to the end in the '60s.
After seeing all the history and comments on the tall doors, I will go a new route and install wooden beams with tackle at the top of each of the four tall doors much like a farm barn used to haul hay into the lofts using horses to pull the loads up and down.
I added a beam to each door. It doesn't look too bad.
As an aside from talking in particular about an ice house, for roofing material I have used electrical friction tape for roofing. Overlapping it makes for a realistic rolled asphalt roof. I wish it came a little wider so I could use it for roadways.
My ice house is un-modified and unkitbashed. It is located adjacent to a Walthers meat packing plant. Iced meat reefers need to be pulled a very short distance to be loaded with meat. The ice house is lightly weathered.
However, switching gets complicated because beer reefers and vegatable reefers are also iced here. Switch crews must move the meat reefers out of the way for other reefers.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Those tended to be on the aspensive side, right?
Question 2 then: What of facilites (re-icing) not on freezing waters or in places where the water didn't freeze deep or solid enough (or does it matter that much?), say positins in the middle of PFE movements across the country, did they freeze their own ice or hauli it in advance of the Reefers long distance?
-Morgan
The Cornerstone Ice House is a cool kit. But you should try the Fine Scale Miniature Ice House that George Selios produced about 20 years ago. You can still find some on e-Bay. I built on last year and will install it this winter when I finish my rail yard.
Craig North Carolina
Thank you Mr. Paine. Those U-tube video clips were very educational. What was interesting is how the modern ice house used a front-end loader or fork lift to get a number of blocks on a skid into the upper level doors. (Probably cheaper and faster than building wooden ramps). I guess because of how much room the ramps would take up on a model layout, Cornerstone left them off.
Thanks for providing the additional information CNJ831. As you note, delivering ice to on-line icing facilities is another source of rail traffic, and possible even if you don't have room for the storage facility - all you need is a few ice-service reefers.
The icehouse in my second picture is meant to represent one with water adjacent to the unseen side, and would have the conveyors had there been sufficient room.
I had always wondered about the tall doors on the Walthers model - when I was researching icehouse operations, I saw reference to staging platforms inside the structure which moved up and down like elevators - these were on the shipping side of ice storage houses, and were used to take ice blocks from the top of the stack inside the house down to platform level, where it was loaded into ice service cars for shipment elsewhere. On my storage facility, the doors for such shipping are low ones, with high doors at the higher platform only for icing the occasional reefer that might show up.
For ice houses that received ice from another location (like all of my other ones), there was a receiving platform at trackside. The smaller icehouses use manpower to get the blocks from the ice car and stacked inside the building, while the larger icehouse uses stages to take the ice from the receiving platforms up to the current level of the ice stack. The same stages carry ice blocks (up or down, depending on the current height of the stack inside the house) to the icing platform for servicing reefers.
In my first photo of the Walthers icehouse, a receiving platform is visible at the right side of the photo, and there's another hidden by the parked reefers. Below is a partial view of the first one:
In retrospect, I should have modified the icing platform supports and put the receiving platforms directly between the track and the building instead of just beyond either end. As I've built it, the received ice is slid across the platform, then onto portable conveyors (the same type as used for coal and gravel) for transfer to the tall doors on either end of the icehouse.
The tall doors on the south end of the building, seen below, are not only for receiving ice, but also for shipping to local consumers, and I assume that there is an internal stage for taking ice up or down.
I included an office/lunchroom and an outbuilding for maintenance work, but had no room for a garage/stable - the company uses both trucks and wagons for local deliveries. (The horses standing around will eventually be put to work somewhere.)
Here's a trackside look at the main storage and shipping building. There are shipping doors under the icing platform, on what was the original building, and, as you can see by the different siding, the section nearest the viewer was a later addition.
JWK RailwayHow would the ice blocks be handled? Would a man use a ice pick tong to pick up a block, put it on his shoulder...
The blocks for icing reefers would weigh 100 pounds or more, so you could not just pick one up easily. The blocks would slide down the icing platform pushed and controlled by a worker. Then across a transfer ramp to the icing hatch on the reefer. Some reefers would just hold ice and others would have brine tanks (salt water) that would hold ice and brine and would maintain a colder internal temperature than ice alone.
The historic Thompson Ice House in South Bristol, Maine keeps alive the traditional method of harvesting ice from a pond and storing it for future use. This was how block ice was produced prior to industrial refigeration. The linked Boston Globe article on the ice house mentions that in the 1800s and earlier, ice was exported from Maine to South America, China and India until ice making refigeration made this business unprofitable. The U-Tube video from 2008 shows how ice is harvested and stored; there are links to other ice harvesting locations as well.http://www.boston.com/travel/explorene/maine/articles/2009/01/25/a_tradition_frozen_in_time/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NteN2zDtk
I can't thank you enough for your research and for answering my question. That photo of Hutmacher's Ice house says it all. And I do like the office to the side of the building. I will add one to my building. Also I like the way you green trimed the corner boards and eves on your building, it tones down the bright white.
I would add to the discussion that there were essentially three types of ice houses in the steam era. The sort most of us think about when modeling are the major (large) re-icing facilities, like the Walthers and similar models available commercially. Found in, or near, major railroad yard facilities, or sometimes adjacent to some sort of meat packing plant, their purpose was almost soley to ice reefers from elevated platforms. These are typified by the model shown in Doc Wayne's first image.
Secondly, along with the less common storage-type building, there were many smaller, local ice houses that supplied the general public, stores, similar small establishments and not used to re-ice reefers. These normally had only a platform at freight car unloading level and no elevated ones for overhead icing. This type of structure is well represented in Doc Wayne's third, fourth and fifth photos.
Now while some of the smaller, local ice houses were situated in close proximity to an ice pond, the larger establishments (prior to the coming of ice-making machinery) had cut ice brought to them in ice service reefers, such as the one appearing in Doc Wayne's final image. And this leads us to the third type of ice house: the ice harvesting facility. This structure was often seen along a spur of the rail line and was THE essential facility in the ice service industry back in the day. The harvesting structure was located on the shore of either a river, or lake, that froze during the winter. In appearance, what distinguished it to a degree from the other two facilities were the fairly large, narrow, vertical door(s) usually located on the peaked end of the building at right-angles to the track-level railcar loading platforms. During the winter season one would see huge, often spindley, wooden ice conveyors leading from the building out to the shoreline and a short distance into the water, to bring the harvested ice up into the ice house. In warmer weather many of these often rickety-looking conveyances were removed, but some did remain in place year-round. Here's an images of an ice harvesting conveyor structure:
http://www.museum.state.il.us/RiverWeb/harvesting/archives/images/roll11/Hutmacherice.jpg
http://www.mtn-top-hs.org/images/ice%20house%202.jpg
Taken together, the three types of facilities create an entire and interesting high-traffic industry all their own for the model railroader. Ice is harvested at the lakeside facility and loaded on special ice service reefers. It is then transported to both major reefer icing/re-icing plants, to local distributors, or local creameries/creamery ice houses, in trains with rather high priority. Empties are, in-turn, returned to the yard, or potentially to a short storage track at the ice harvesting facility.
The model nearest the camera in the image below portrays a modest-sized riverside harvesting facility situated immediately adjacent to and also supplying, a Bordens creamery. On the portion of my layout where it will eventually be situated, it will also serve as a source of ice service operations, supplying my railyard reefer icing structure, adding another and unusual industry cycle to my operations scheme.
In addition, here is an example of a small Lackawanna ice house I built from plans in RMC. The interior is fully detailed and illuminated.
If you look carefully, through the opened door you can just barely make out an employee re-locating a block of ice with a long pike.
CNJ831
JWK Railway Yes. The doors are what I am questioning. They are so high up on the building and open up into thin air. How do you get the ice sheets, blocks, crushed ice down. Also, I did paint the doors with a rust paint and the hinges black and luvers and ladders rust. That helped to tone down the bright white of the siding.
Yes. The doors are what I am questioning. They are so high up on the building and open up into thin air. How do you get the ice sheets, blocks, crushed ice down. Also, I did paint the doors with a rust paint and the hinges black and luvers and ladders rust. That helped to tone down the bright white of the siding.
As far as car iceing goes: Bomb's Away!
seriously though, the icers would walk out that door on a ramp (not in Walthers to be modeld) then out on the folding door o the wooden platform, and possily onto a second ramp they put out, push their iceblock into the hatch and drop it. Then fetch a new one. These were sturdy enough to largely withstand the thunk.
One I;ve heard of, but not seen: An aicing rack between the tracks? Presumably, the building to rack would be served via a ramp or conveyor or both, across one track, and then workers could ice two trains at once or a train on either track largely on the fly, have you guys heard of such a thing?
Very nice modeling! I like the idea of an office (I now may add one). I toned down the large plain back wall with a large sign that says Western Pacific Fruit, Ice, Storage. Also, Ice House No. 1. Then a couple of railroad Heralds on each side. I also like that streetcar or trolley at the corner of your picture.