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Replace entire trucks or just wheels on Rivarossi passenger cars?

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Replace entire trucks or just wheels on Rivarossi passenger cars?
Posted by sandusky on Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:44 PM
Either Athearn, IHC, Central Valley or ? for truck replacement; Jaybee/Intermountain/NWSL for wheel replacement. Anybody have experience with this. I have over 50 cars, so budgetary concerns hold. Thanks- Mike
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Posted by Hamltnblue on Sunday, July 04, 2010 7:19 PM

Try doing a couple of cars with wheels only.  Metal wheelsets of course.  See how they do and if ok then finish the rest. Make sure you pick up a truck tuner while you're at it.

Springfield PA

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, July 04, 2010 7:25 PM

 IHC metal wheelsets fit right in - if you cna fidn them still. They are the right size - RR and IHC cars have undersized wheels, if you use the correct size for scale, the couplers will be way too high and the car will look like it's riding too high. Correct scale-size wheels will also catch on the detailing on the trucks.

                                  --Randy

 


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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:09 PM

Kadee 36" passenger car wheels work well on Rivarossi cars, although you'll need to trim or bend the brakeshoe castings so that they clear the larger-diameter wheels.  For couplers, Kadee makes conversion kits specifically for these cars, which takes care of the height issue and also gives you some adjustment of the distance between coupled cars.  You could also opt for body-mounted couplers, shimmed to the correct height using sheet styrene.

This converted Rivarossi diner uses a Kadee conversion kit for the coupler on the baggage end of the car, and a body-mounted #5 on the passenger end, which is usually the end of the train.

Wayne

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Posted by Forty Niner on Sunday, July 04, 2010 10:08 PM

I ran into this very problem back in the 60's when the Rivarossi cars were about the only decent cars available, problem was they had 28" diameter wheels.

I tried replacing them with 36" standard passenger car wheels but as been pointed out they rubbed so I tried 33" freight car wheels and they fit perfectly.

Also, the 3" scale smaller wheels really don't show up once they're installed and if you use a wheel such as Intermountain you can always light them later. I think Atlas wheelsets also have metal axles as well.

Mark

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Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Monday, July 05, 2010 12:21 AM

 I can tell you that using the IHC metal wheels in their trucks will make the cars run smoother but they can't even come close to a better quality car like Spectrum's, Athearn, Rapido, BLI etc. I posted a comment recently how I was testing a newly laid section on the layout and ran a Rivarossi/IHC passenger car with metal wheels. It got to one section and It had a problem I inspected it and the only thing I saw was maybe the rail joiner may have been too high but that was repaired and still a little hiccup at that point. Took out a Spectrum car and it sailed through the entire section without a problem tried it again with a couple of Rapido's and finally a brass car.all ran flawlessly. So yes metal wheels will improve their performance don't expect too much.

Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
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Posted by Capt. Grimek on Monday, July 05, 2010 1:25 AM
Guys, do any of the above recommendations apply to Rivarossi Shortys/60 scale footers? Thanks.

Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.

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Posted by Forty Niner on Monday, July 05, 2010 1:42 AM

Well, for one thing the newer Rivarossi doesn't have the huge flanges like the older stuff did and although I have a few of the 60' footers I don't recall for sure but I think they already have the correct size wheels on them. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, they always do............;-)

Mark

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Posted by AustraliaJim on Monday, July 05, 2010 6:17 AM

 I'm in the process of changing mine. I'm using Intermountain 33". They run great and the couplers are the correct height and you don't have to bend the brake shoes. As mentioned though get a truck tuner just in case they are a little tight. These are also good wheel sets if you want to add lighting. I've put a couple of lighted drum heads on the back of the observation cars. Sweet! Don't replace the trucks, way too expensive.

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Posted by loathar on Monday, July 05, 2010 7:25 AM

AustraliaJim

 I'm in the process of changing mine. I'm using Intermountain 33". They run great and the couplers are the correct height and you don't have to bend the brake shoes. As mentioned though get a truck tuner just in case they are a little tight. These are also good wheel sets if you want to add lighting. I've put a couple of lighted drum heads on the back of the observation cars. Sweet! Don't replace the trucks, way too expensive.

I used the IM 33" too so I didn't have to mess with the brake shoes. P2K wheels have too short an axle and tend to fall out.
I used the KD 505 truck mounted couplers and was real happy with them.

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Posted by nedthomas on Monday, July 05, 2010 9:23 AM

The very old Rivarossi trucks were made of soft plastic and metal axels will in time cut a slot in the side frame and the side frame will drag on the rail head. I think these had all plastic wheel sets with Pizza cutter flanges.

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Posted by duckdogger on Monday, July 05, 2010 10:47 AM

Agree with Ned.  My 30-plus year old RR all need new trucks.  I put KD 33s on them when new and they ran well.  Now, after too many storage episodes without climate control, no so.

They either become scenery units or get new third party trucks.

Trains. Cooking. Cycling. So many choices but so little time.
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Posted by Capt. Grimek on Monday, July 05, 2010 2:53 PM
Mark, you're correct about the 60ft. ers but wondered what people are using to replace their wheels and/or trucks on those shortys. Do the same recommendations apply to the shortys (for replacement) as for the 80-85ft.ers? Thanks.

Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.

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Posted by Forty Niner on Monday, July 05, 2010 5:22 PM

Don't the new 60' "shorty's" as you called them already have 36" metal wheelsets on them?

If so, why change them?

If not, I would thnk the same thing applies here as it would on the older cars except these already have 36" wheels in them,,,,,,,,

Mark

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Monday, July 05, 2010 6:34 PM

My 2 cents .....

To convert a Rivarossi standard length car for reliable operation do the following.

Replace trucks. (Central Valley, IHC premium, Tenshodo, or other good quality make). Make a new pivot point for trucks while checking for proper car height.

Install decent diaphragms if you like.

Install body mounted couplers on car body. Use long shank couplers and mount them far enough inside car for realistic close coupling. Make sure coupler height is correct.

Add weight to NMRA specifications. .

Operate full length  cars on at least 30" radius curves.

 

 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by rdgk1se3019 on Monday, July 05, 2010 7:01 PM

 On an old RR car I have I used the 36" K-D wheels but I removed the brake shoes and shaved down the raised bolster nub flush with the top of the truck frame......I also glued round tube inside the car bolsters and tapped for a 2-56 screw to hold the trucks on the car.

Dennis Blank Jr.

CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad

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Posted by Capt. Grimek on Monday, July 05, 2010 8:57 PM
Hi Mark, I realized after rereading my original post that I'm not being completely clear. Aside from wear on the plastic trucks and possibly having to replace them some day, I REALLY was asking about shortys that I might find used at train shows that had trucks or wheels missing or damaged. I was wondering if anyone who runs these cars might have some insights as to what has worked well for them. So my replacement question was centered around the used/flea market finds that had missing parts, etc. Thanks.

Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.

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Posted by Forty Niner on Monday, July 05, 2010 10:57 PM

OK..........That makes more sense. Personally I'd suggest the Walthers trucks, they're free rolling, look good, and if you check their monthly flyer they usually have them on some sort of a sale. As a matter of fact they have several in this months flyer.

I have a "pile" of the old Hallmark MKT passenger cars, also known as "sleds" with those junk trucks they came with. I sold the trucks on Ebay, I couldn't beleive it myself, amd purchased the correct amount of Walthers trucks to replace them. I've already finished a few of them and the difference is amazing!!! They actually "roll"!!!! And roll nicely as well.

So my sugestion would be to check out their sale flyer each month to see what they have, the price is right and they are nice looking trucks as well.

Hope that has helped some.............

Mark
 

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Posted by bamacrazy on Saturday, May 14, 2011 2:10 PM

Are these the passanger car replacement thrucks? I saw several sets of those at the hobby shop. I need to change my trucks and couplers on all my passange cars as I want to run Kadee's.

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Posted by gmcrail on Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:40 AM

If you have some of the old AHM/Rivarossi cars, you can replace the trucks with Central Valley 6-wheel passenger trucks, but you will need to make a new offset mount for them, since the CV trucks have offset mounting pivot holes (the centered holes on these trucks are threaded for their "Snap-On" kingpins).  Not a difficult project, but a bit annoying.  Here's a diner I just finished, with CV trucks:

 

If you have the truck frames from the car, you can just drop Kadee 36" wheelsets into the existing frames.  I have never had any clearance problems doing this, and they are the smoothest and free-est running cars on the layout. 

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, May 15, 2011 12:41 PM

Nice job on your diner, gmcrail. Thumbs Up

While the Central Valley 6-wheel trucks work well under the Rivarossi cars, they're few and far between around here, commanding prices in excess of $20.00/per pair in some instances.

I have some of their 4-wheel passenger trucks on hand and they work well under shorter or lightweight cars.  Below is a shortened Athearn Pullman, converted to a wooden express car, riding on CV 4-wheel trucks:

 

While I've run some fairly long express trains, most are only four or five cars long, so I don't worry too much about rolling qualities as long as they track well.  The cars below are among several older Athearn coaches and Pullmans which I converted to baggage cars.  They retain their original Athearn metal trucks and wheels, and have rolling properties similar to that of a brick.

 

 

Wayne

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, May 15, 2011 1:02 PM

I've installed P2K 33" wheel sets on my Rivarossi streamliners over the years and have had no problems with them. 

In fact, after I filled the floor pockets with BB gun pellets, secured them with Elmer's glue, then installed the P2K wheels, the rolling qualities of the cars instantly became incredibly smoooooooooth and free rolling! Cool

Only catch now is that I want to install lighting in 4 of my "Rivs", so I'm going to have to get metal axle sets with one side insulated. But that's long term, after I finish metalizing all of my Walthers corrugated streamlined cars first.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Capt. Grimek on Sunday, May 15, 2011 1:50 PM

A belated thanks, Mark for the info. concerning 60' shorties. Any other recommendations are appreciated if you've replaced trucks/wheelsets on them.   I also would like to know how to spot the 60' versions on ebay listings. Part # or descriptions to look for.  Thanks.

Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.

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Posted by gmcrail on Sunday, May 15, 2011 10:13 PM

doctorwayne

Nice job on your diner, gmcrail. Thumbs Up

While the Central Valley 6-wheel trucks work well under the Rivarossi cars, they're few and far between around here, commanding prices in excess of $20.00/per pair in some instances.

Wayne

 

Thanks, Wayne!  Coming from you, that's high praise, indeed!  Your passenger cars always turn me some interesting shades of green.Big Smile 

I happened to get a bunch of the CV 6-wheelers "back in the day" (like 40 years ago!), when they weren't so pricey, intending to put them on some Walthers wood/metal cars.  Still have 4-5 cars around that I haven't built yet....  Whistling

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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 6:08 AM

Just replace the wheels with Intermountain metal wheels and be done with it.

Rich

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 8:00 AM

The so-called "shorty" Rivarossi / Walthers cars (they're all correct length models of cars that were 60' long in real life) came with metal wheels from the start AFAIK. They roll quite well and probably don't need to be replaced. The older Rivarossi cars had plastic wheels until maybe the mid/late 1990's when they started coming with metal wheels. KIM too that the recent IHC cars are not the same as the old AHM / Rivarossi passenger cars.

Stix

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