Many years ago Model Railroader ran a story about an HO layout in California(?) that was built outdoors. The railroad was covered with plastic sheathing when not in operation. As I recall the trains were powered through the track and the equipment was no different than what was operated indoors.
<> Now that a number of persons have experimented with battery powered locomotives and we have even seen HO gauge live steam, I am wondering if anyone has built HO gauge outdoors.
<>There must be miles of brass track out there which would be fine for use with battery power or live steam. The only drawback I see is that the plastic crossties on conventional track might be subject to UV degradation.
<>HO scale locomotives would have to be battery powered (yes, live steam is technically possible but I do not see that becoming popular) but moving up to On30 or Gn15 would make live steam practial.
Just curious, I am not planning to build such a layout.
<> Thanks.
<><>
September 1964 MR had an article on outdoor HO (Outdoor HO? Why Not?), and I recall another article about an extensive HO outdoor layout in Germany. My recollection is that the biggest challenge is to create a solid base for the roadbed that won't be subject to frost heaves and other movement. This is of course also a challenge for our garden railroad, live steam and for that matter, prototype railroad friends. I am relying on memory here but I recall that the solution was a surprisingly thick concrete base below the tracks - a half a foot to a foot.
Without meaning to stir up a climate change debate I almost wonder if UV damage to outdoor plastic is worse now than it was in the early 60s?
I also recall a cover article in MR about an outdoor O scale layout in Great Britain that used sophisticated clockwork trains. I think with today's super batteries your instincts of not using the track to deliver the power to the train are right on the money. It migth be worth posting this same inquiry on the garden railroad part of this forum to glean their insights.
Dave Nelson
Talking of HO scale outdoors layouts, it was quite common in the UK to build OO scale outdoor layouts with clockwork locos.
Here is a link to a video. It is about building a 10 mile long outdoor OO scale "train set". There are 6 parts to this video - very entertaining and worthwhile watching all of them!
My HO railroad is outside. I live in Phoenix, AZ so it poses a different set of challenges than doing this in the mid-west or UK. I have done some steps in the building process differently than when I lived in OH and had a basement at my disposal. Photos at www.duckdogger.us
Rain and moisture are not as much if an issue as is the Sun in summer. Basic air temps are not the issue as cars, locos, and scenery have not been affected by 110 degree temps. I unintentionally left track in full sunlight with no ill effects (Atlas code 100) for 3 years before I started building . Code83 is more vulnerable so from now through mid-October, I shade the track and turnouts from direct sun light as heat kinks and tie warping happen.
All the framing, plywood decking, and even the extruded foam is painted with an elastomeric coating (the same stuff they use on exterior stucco walls out here) because of its ability to move with the substrate. I take anything electrical, power, locos, cars with lighting, tools, etc. inside when not running.
I have found that even with water proof glue, ballast can still be dislodged by a pounding rain so I changed to applying a thin coat of siliconized caulk and embedding the ballast into it while wet. Same from ground cover although that will fade in the sun light. So you re-touch with an air brush and you are good to go for 6 months or so.
When you use plaster cloth, it must be sealed before any rain falls or it melts (think witch in the Wizard of OZ). And the paint must be exterior grade to last. Bushes and trees are anchored discretely with clear silicone.
I will be replacing some curves with code 100 using offset joints. The code 83 with soldered joints has not held up and has already be relayed twice. Even with shade, the joints fail and derails happen, even on B-B truck locos.
Aside from checking the railroad area for rattlesnakes, scorpions, and big hairy spiders before work begins, its pretty much like I did when I had a basement layout.
Ulrich, just watched all 6 videos, to bad they did not make it the 10 miles.
Ken
I hate Rust
... I just love Jamie May´s accent
In addition to my indoor HO layout in the basement, I have had a G gauge layout in the backyard since 1989. It has evolved over the years, and today runs with radio (RCS) control/battery power, and does so quite nicely. The track is by Llagas Creek and is aluminum rail code 250 on UV treated ties. I have not experienced any decline in the track at all other than needing to clean out the nuts the squirrels leave between the railso. The diesels (all USA brand) contain the radio receiver and battery packs, although I have some freight cars that have aux. battery packs and plugs so they can power a train also. Some locos have two battery packs, in particular the F units and the lone PA. Kadee G gauge body mount couplers complete the package.
However, the problems of being outdoors does require a lot of maintenance, especially in spring and fall, although trains can run in the winter.
Based on my experience with both scales/gauges I would NOT put an HO layout outside in any permanent state. I left a stretch of Micro Engineering code 100 flex track outside all summer a year ago and the ties were "gone". I did the same with Atlas and got the same results. And I can't imagine the maintenance would would have to do with switches outside, it is a lot of fun to recover the G gauge at times after a rain of 6 inches or more in a short time. Oh, and did I mention leaves in the fall? I have several pin oaks, a maple, and some unidentified monstrosity in the neighbor's hard that can really bury the railroad quickly. Finally, the cars are treated for UV same with the diesels, as are the structures which I store in an outdoor building come winter. HO equipment is not treated. YOu might have a small HO layout on a deck or patio for short time periods, but not in a permanent state. If you don't believe me, give it a try.
So all I can say is "good luck".
PB, see earlier post. My HO railroad has been in the AZ outdoors for 18 months. No issues with UV on cars or locomotives. But here are concessions.
If I still lived in OH, WV, NJ, IL, or MI, I would not do HO outside due to more frequent rain. And snow. Of course, if you used metal framing instead of wood....
One question. Does your HO track, I am assuming flex track, stay in contact with the ground year round? Do you have heavy rains on the track causing washouts, etc.? Have you watched plastic structures crumble away because of exposure to UV? I have, and I am talking G gauge.
Bob
Must be that Arizona air. I have a question. The structures made for large scale are a different type of plastic, are much thicker, and we have to use a different glue (cement) to build them. Do you have problems on the HO structures (I assume Testors, etc) with the buildings holding up? I assume your air is the dry, very dry no humidity type of air as opposed to our moisture saturated air in Kansas City.
I had a grain elevator (which was custom built for large scale) slowly dissolve away over a 5 year period. I left it on the railroad during the operating season, but I had it covered when not running, and took it in during winter. But eventually one fall I picked it up to move into the garage and it literally dissolved into nothingness. I can't imagine the HO structures surviving one summer here outside with our humidity.
Sir Madog Talking of HO scale outdoors layouts, it was quite common in the UK to build OO scale outdoor layouts with clockwork locos.Here is a link to a video. It is about building a 10 mile long outdoor OO scale "train set". There are 6 parts to this video - very entertaining and worthwhile watching all of them!
Not trying to hijack the thread, but why is it that England TV has shows like this and we get stuck with CSI:_____ (fill in the blank -Miami, New York, Las Vegas Sheboygan - whatever!)
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Because the American TV audience is dumb enough to watch them.
Now back to outdoor railroads.
Bob, have you ever seen Benny Hill?
I believe there are several outdoor HO layouts on YouTube. I have thought of using PVC fence rails to make a roadbed for an outdoor layout.The rails would be mounted to PVC posts buried in the ground. They are made to be left outside, so should hold up pretty well. I would think that painting the plastic ties would provide some degree of UV protection.
Atlantic and Hibernia<>There must be miles of brass track out there which would be fine for use with battery power or live steam. The only drawback I see is that the plastic crossties on conventional track might be subject to UV degradation. <>HO scale locomotives would have to be battery powered (yes, live steam is technically possible but I do not see that becoming popular) but moving up to On30 or Gn15 would make live steam practial.<>Kevin
<>Kevin
I look at outdoor railroads as another "is it worth the effort?" question that can only be answered by the individual.
Certainly building the outdoor roadbed for HO is going to be challenging, especially if one lives where the ground freezes - think frost heaves and similar if the supports aren't anchored below the frost line. And the roadbed has to be stable in periods of heavy rain or soil saturation. The margin for things shifting is pretty small with the rigid wheel frames and 0.025" flanges in HO. Expect significant extra time and cost in building the roadbed. Ongoing maintenance of the track and roadbed will be greater than for an indoor layout.
The ultraviolet spectrum of sunlight has to be dealt with, too. Plastics may or may not be a problem when exposed to significant UV; paints are the same.
Dirt buildup is an issue on HO rails and wheels. Luckily, electrical contact requirements drive a cleaning regimen on powered track layouts that takes care of any mechanical issues. Outside has rain splattered-dirt, leaves, and significantly more dust than any inside layout contends with. Although battery power removes the necessity for rail clean enough for electrical conductivity, flangeways could easily fill with dirt, and leaves and debris on the rails can derail HO trains.
Critters may take to tunnels or the roadbed materials.
Battery charging and capacity has to be thought through.
All in all, I expect an inspection of the track would be necessary before every operating session. And even then there will likely be occasional surprises during the initial part of an operating session.
So just like store-able and portable layouts, there will be chores before an operating session can take place. In watching the hobby magazines over the years, these chores tend to get old in a couple of years, and most of these type layouts have a limited life span when executed by an individual - modular clubs are an obvious exception.
To me it's a pleasurable hobby, with limited space, time, and money. If the too much of the pleasure gets short-circuited by parts of the hobby I would rather not have to contend with - expensive and time-consuming initial build, cleaning, setup, take-down, then I would rather do with a smaller layout that doesn't have these disadvantages. But that's me; others think differently (and I'm glad they do).
Fred W
Sir Madog Talking of HO scale outdoors layouts, it was quite common in the UK to build OO scale outdoor layouts with clockwork locos. Here is a link to a video. It is about building a 10 mile long outdoor OO scale "train set". There are 6 parts to this video - very entertaining and worthwhile watching all of them!
So the trains in question traveled between, what 5 and 7 miles? That's the equivalent of 435 and 609 scale miles. Non-stop aside from derailments? With no maintenance? That's not bad at all. If they had pulled the locos for lubrication every hour or two I wonder if they could have made it?
George V.
George, I was surprised they did not make it my self. Now I never ran mine outside, plus it had rain, track was rough and they where running up grade. I have engines with well over 200 hours on them. Lube them maybe onces ever 20 hours.
I think it was on the Atlas site where I came across link about a Proto 2000 BL 2 ran something like 21 day straight before it died.
Cuda Ken
cudaken Bob, have you ever seen Benny Hill?
Now there was a funny man. Some of the skits were hilarious and many of the jokes could be taken more than one way. And don't even think about the girls and their costumes. (I said, "don't even think about the girls".) The guys who saw the show will know what I mean. The show would never have gotten on the air over here even after The Johnny Carson Show. Miss Priscilla Goodbody (Johnny's favorite censor) would have had it yanked after the opening credits. LOL.
Blue Flamer.