challenger3980 Well actually, they ARE all just TOYS, some are more expensive than others, some are more Detailed than others, but all model trains are just TOYS, though some may not be suitable for children to play with. Are they tools, to build or repair something? Do they produce a product (other than SMILES) Do they provide some sort of service? NOPE, NOPE and NOPE, They are just TOYS, meant to amuse children of all ages from 2-102. Some people have difficulty accepting that they spend countless dollars and hours, on things that are in reality just TOYS, they may rationalize it by saying that they are "SCALE MODELS" yes they are models built to scale in many cases, but they are none the less, still TOYS. Some are Beautifully crafted models, many of which run through highly detailed scenery, that someone put a LOT of Sweat Equity into, but at the end of the day, they are simply TOYS, no matter the detail or the expense involved. Doug
Well actually, they ARE all just TOYS, some are more expensive than others, some are more Detailed than others, but all model trains are just TOYS, though some may not be suitable for children to play with. Are they tools, to build or repair something? Do they produce a product (other than SMILES) Do they provide some sort of service? NOPE, NOPE and NOPE, They are just TOYS, meant to amuse children of all ages from 2-102. Some people have difficulty accepting that they spend countless dollars and hours, on things that are in reality just TOYS, they may rationalize it by saying that they are "SCALE MODELS" yes they are models built to scale in many cases, but they are none the less, still TOYS. Some are Beautifully crafted models, many of which run through highly detailed scenery, that someone put a LOT of Sweat Equity into, but at the end of the day, they are simply TOYS, no matter the detail or the expense involved.
Doug
It's like the guy with the Ferrari or the 60 ft Endeavour sailboat. They are all toys. They really are not necessary for our physical survival. And most people whether we know it or not don't really play with toys----they sit and watch the toooobe-----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
BRAKIE JBCA Don't you love the lead sentence in the article "A hedge fund hotshot's lawsuit over a toy railroad But,of course! But,we know its a media spun high impact statement to fire up the hordes. After all those are just "toy" trains to the general public.
JBCA Don't you love the lead sentence in the article "A hedge fund hotshot's lawsuit over a toy railroad
Don't you love the lead sentence in the article "A hedge fund hotshot's lawsuit over a toy railroad
But,of course!
But,we know its a media spun high impact statement to fire up the hordes.
After all those are just "toy" trains to the general public.
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Kenfolk Huh......and just where will they find an impartial jury in this economic era?
Huh......and just where will they find an impartial jury in this economic era?
Doesn't this depend on whether he even goes with a jury? He might just go with a judge---- and besides, I'm pretty sure there are impartial people still around----
I have heard this same story involving peopel like this Hedge Hog guy all too many times from contractors to Limo companies to avaition companies. I have a builder friend who did work out on LI for some big mucky muck who kept doing the same thing adding on a making changes. Oh no they shouldn't cost extra I'm intitled to it and who are you to inslut me by charging me extra. Well if he paid the bill intitially he knew he owed the money and now he's jsut trying to screw the guy.
If you think 2.7 million is a bit expensive think about how much time you have tied up in your layout then give yourself a reasonable hourly rate lets say like $30/ hour which is probably very reasonable. Then add it up and see how unreasonable it is. Then rip up the paper and swallow it so your wife doesn't see how much you have tied up in your railroad.
colvinbackshopBut, I do say “Screw the Turkey” for the law suit! Something smells REAL fishy here!I wouldn’t doubt that the folks involved in the “building” did a great job and most likely need a “pat on the back” for putting up with all the BS during the construction!!
Of course, you have absolutely no evidence to back any of this up, but thanks for having an opinion anyway.
G PaineNo one has mentioned the possible additional manpower and/or overtime the contractor needed to complete the project for the deadline once all the scope changes to the project delayed the construction. Did the contractor have to take apart and rebuild already completed work to suit the client's changing mind?? That kind of stuff would really run up the cost quickly. Hopefully the contractor documented all the customer demands for changes.
If this goes like any general contractor vs numbskullian customer it will quiet down in about 2 weeks. I've seen a few of those--changes made to plan/back to architect--other material used/harder to get, more expensive--supplier messes up order--Walthers(OOPS) back order supply--who knows what else.
G Paine Midnight Railroader Now, see, if he'd built the thing himself, he wouldn't be dealing with this at all. What is the probabability that the hedge fund guy could even put together a couple pieces of flextrack?
Midnight Railroader Now, see, if he'd built the thing himself, he wouldn't be dealing with this at all.
Now, see, if he'd built the thing himself, he wouldn't be dealing with this at all.
What is the probabability that the hedge fund guy could even put together a couple pieces of flextrack?
Umm--do we suppose he knows what flextrack is?
G Paine Midnight Railroader Now, see, if he'd built the thing himself, he wouldn't be dealing with this at all. What is the probabability that the hedge fund guy could even put together a couple pieces of EZ-track?
What is the probabability that the hedge fund guy could even put together a couple pieces of EZ-track?
Fixxed.
-Morgan
IRONROOSTERSounds more like he is trying to stiff Rail Dreams
My wife used to own a real estate company; her experience is rich people are more likely to complain or sue to get an agreed upon price reduced that the average person.
ereimerwhy would it matter if it was done in time for his daughter's wedding ?
Maybe the owner wanted a new toy to show off to the wedding guests?? Maybe the train was supposed to deliver the drinks like Reggie Van Gleason.
No one has mentioned the possible additional manpower and/or overtime the contractor needed to complete the project for the deadline once all the scope changes to the project delayed the construction. Did the contractor have to take apart and rebuild already completed work to suit the client's changing mind?? That kind of stuff would really run up the cost quickly. Hopefully the contractor documented all the customer demands for changes.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
If you want to apply logic to this based on the initial estimate of $700k, this guy would have had to COMPLETELY changed the concept and design of this layout 2-3 times. I wonder how much of the $2.7 mil price was based on the "butthead" factor?
Did you really expect better from a typical (technologically challenged) journalist? These are the same folks who insist on calling almost any railroad yard a, "Marshalling yard."
Since I know exactly nit about the merits of this particular case, I'm not going to give an opinion. OTOH, I can see where hyperdetailing a layout could easily raise just the cost of materials to several hundred dollars a square foot. Ever think of making a crowd scene with pre-painted figures? How about working chase lights on that theater marquee? Somehow, I can't see Sir Fatwallet settling for plain-Jane woodlands (unless every tree was a ready-to-install premade.)
The one thing that stands out like a lighthouse in all of the above is, "A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it wasn't written on." With my background (aircraft maintenance) I've long since learned to document EVERYHING!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - myself, pay as I go)
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hi!
I surely can't say who is "at fault" here, but given the money involved, there are contracts and other pieces of tangible evidence that the Court will be able to work with and decide the issue.
It is immaterial as to where and how Mr. Mercer got the money to have the layout built, and should not enter into the trial proceedings. What does matter are the contracts and testimonies and witnesses brought forth.
My personal opinion is that I find it a "good thing" that our Hobby will get some press, and that a very wealthy man thought enough of it to put a whole lot of money into it.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to build my own..........
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Theres some good info coming out of htis. It looks like some of us do a little custom work. So we should take note of the pitfalls and take care of business as it comes up and keep the owner in tune with whats going on at all times. I bet this isn't just a one sided story. Yeah its true there are guys who buy this hobby and its up to us modelers to make sure thaey by it from us. Nice to be payed for play BILL
Another safety net for the builder would have been having the client sign change orders, with an associated estimate for the cost of the changes. This applies to just about any industry, but is especially critical in construction, where specifications can be very fluid throughout the project as options are settled on, unexpected conditions arise, and schedules get affected by numerous things that may be beyond the contractor's control.
If the owner said "change this" and the builder said "okay" then the builder is on weak and shifting sand. If the owner said "Change this," and the builder said "here's how much the change will cost, and here's the new schedule, please sign here" then the owner is full of piffle.
Gray areas are dangerous territory if your building something for others, whether it's a 30 story office tower or a 2'x 4' model railroad.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
What's worse, this guy might win his lawsuit because it reads as if the layout builder did not timely file an answer in court, figuring the litigation would settle. If someone sues and the other party does not file an answer in court, even if they are "talking" to each other on the side, the court under its rules regards the party being sued as agreeing with every allegation in the lawsuit. With no opportunity by the way to prove otherwise. The case is over, and the plantiff wins regardless of the real merits of the case It is called a default judgment and a lot of people have been tricked into trying to settle a case while letting the time period for filing a formal answer in court go by. I hope this is not what happened here but it is very very common.
I can tell you based on the business I am in, that there are a lot of people who were rich on paper but aren't rich today, and they are looking for every angle to get out of contracts they enterred into or things that they bought. In some ways it is like all those rich people we'd read about were in reality just actors in a play and not rich at all. The only reality is that broke people really were broke. A strange world we live in.
Dave Nelson
blownout cylinder BTW--what is the actual square footage of a basketball court anyways?
BTW--what is the actual square footage of a basketball court anyways?
50' x 100' or 5000 sq ft, so this guys layout is about 50' square or 2500 sq ft. Must be nice
Have fun with your trains
Pro basketball court is 94x50 = 4700 sq feet
Halve that x $275/sq ft = $646,250.00
Sounds like he was getting a deal and suffered buyer's remourse.
Just more proof that the hobby is dying because:
1. It's overpriced.
2. The manufacturers are gouging the poor hedge fund running hobbyist.
3. Craftsmanship is no longer valued.
I thought this was an April Fool's piece. It's even funnier as "serious" news.
Andre
Can he get the death penalty for filing a frivilous lawsuite?
He sure as HADES deserves it!!!
And with additional "cruel and inhumane" treatment!!!
Let's see. Items consistently added to, changed, added costs due to fuel costs going up, ah--gee. Bud, y'know--them's the cost of wanting a high priced item---if one factors in square footage by around $250-275---HMMM---definite chin stroking time---
...but at 50' x 50' museum quality, how old would he be when he finished it.
What I find so funny is this guy problably paid for the layout with the money he slushed off his investors. Now he's accusing someone of ripping him off. Should be an interesting case to hear the builders side.
He is probably mad because that was his bonus. I agree he would have been more satisfied building it himself, but he was probably on his private yacht.
Will
Well, first, they have to make a profit building it for him!!!!
Well, GOLLY GEE!
I guess my "TOY" 3x5 FOOT HO layout doesn't compare!
And yes, he'd have had more satisfaction building it himself out of his "pocket" or "walking around" money. Then again, maybe $700,000.00 IS "walking around money" to him!
If only I had HIS problems.....
Then again, maybe not....
DCC anyone? anyone? anyone?
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Point is,has he told the wife yet.
Steve