just getting into the hobby what is the differnts in On30 and On2 1/2
Absolutely nothing!
On30 is O scale equipment running on 30" gauge track (HO-sized track). On2 1/5 is O scale equipment running on the same track. The 2 1/5' translates to 30" (2 feet = 24"; 1/5 foot = 6"; 24" + 6" = 30").
Don't ask me why two terms are used to describe the same thing. May be different terms were used in different areas of the country.
Darrell, quiet...for now
0n2 1/2 is what MR calls it
0n30 is what the rest of the world calls it.
If you want to be pedantic 0n2 1/2 is a model of a 2' 6" gauge railroad modelled in 1 to 48
0n30 is a generic name covering 1 to 48 scale modelling a number of prototype gauges ranging from 2' to 3'
There is no difference. Narrow gauge in the hobby has always been referred to as the scale followed by n for narrow and then the prototype gauge in feet, i.e HOn3 for HO scale using 3 ft gauge track. For fractional feet a variance has become popular with some using the inches instead of the feet so you have On30. But some continue to use On2 1/2. This also occurs with HOn30 vice HOn2 1/2 and Sn42 vice Sn3 1/2. These odd gauges are popular because they allow the use of HO track and mechanisms in the case of On30 and Sn42, and N track / mechanisms for HOn30 even though they are not exact.
Wide gauge would be HOw5 1/2 or HOw66 but I haven't seen anyone's layout who has modeled this or other wide gauges..
Enjoy
Paul
I don't recall hearing about "2-1/5th gauge"...guess that would be 26.4" gauge??
It was discovered early on by O scalers (1:48 scale) that HO track works out to about 30" gauge in O scale. Because parts like trucks and track were hard to find years ago, some O scale modellers used HO track, wheelsets etc. to build narrow gauge layouts, often using it as a compromise to model 2' gauge railroads like once existed in Maine, others have used it as a compromise to model 3' gauge narrow gauge railroads like in Colorado. Plus of course, there were a fair number of industries, logging companies and railroad lines that actually used 30" gauge track, although most were very small operations.
A small "n" is used to denote a model railroad is narrow gauge. "On2" would be 1:48 scale models running on 2' gauge track, "HOn3" would be 1:87 scale trains running on 3' narrow gauge track.
The split between "On30" and "On2-1/2" is just semantics. MR/Kalmbach wants to be consistent, so they use feet - On2, On2-1/2, On3. Many other magazines and manufacturers use On2 and On3, but use "On30" instead of On2-1/2. But On30 and On2-1/2 are just two names for the same thing - O scale models running on track the same gauge as HO.
wjstixI don't recall hearing about "2-1/5th gauge"...guess that would be 26.4" gauge?? ...
...
Thats Sn2 using HOn3 track. Works out to 26.432" which is close enough and enables those of us who dabble in it to use readily available HOn3 track and trucks. I also managed to get 4 of the Roundhouse HOn3 locomotive kits before they were sold to Horizon Hobbies for some future kitbashing into Sn2.
I have never quite understood the criticism MR takes for using On2 1/2 instead of On30. Nobody says On36 for 3 foot narrow gauge. Nobody says On24 for 2 foot gauge. On2 1/2 is the only use of the two which is consistent with other accepted and common narrow gauge nomenclature. On30 is not. It is as simple as that.
Moreover, once you use On30 to describe O scale trains on HO gauge track, then what terminology is available to you to describe a really finicky O scaler who actually make the gauge a true 30 inches instead of the "close, but not exact" compromise use of HO gauge track? Answer: none. You have already misapplied the precise term to describe something which is not precise. When language cannot make fine distinctions, it is lacking. That is why a large vocabulary is better than a small one.
To me On30 means you intend to be accurate down to the closest scale inch in your description, and that is a failed description of the use of HO gauge track with quarter inch scale trains. On2 1/2 means you intend to be accurate down to the closest half-foot and that is the more accurate description of what we are, as a rule, talking about.
At best I would reserve the use of On30 for those fine scalers who actually have 30 inch gauge track.
Dave Nelson
So ... 1:32n2 (my scale guage combination) is G scale running on On3 track and mechanism? That should get confusing pretty fast.
I wouldn't use HO track for my On30 / On2-1/2 although you could because the distance between the rails is the same. Depending on the prototype, the tie lengths and spacing will vary widely. Even code 100 rail in O Scale is almost 5" tall - few lines had such heavy rail.
Neil
tutaenui 0n2 1/2 is what MR calls it 0n30 is what the rest of the world calls it.
Since this particular system of measuring track gauge is designated in feet, the term On30 is actually a misnomer since, taken literally, it implies a track gauge of 30 feet. In this particular instance, MR is correct and the "rest of the world" is wrong.
CNJ831
dknelsonI have never quite understood the criticism MR takes for using On2 1/2 instead of On30.Dave Nelson
I have never quite understood the criticism MR takes for using On2 1/2 instead of On30.
Because it confuses newcomers.
- Harry
IMO, Model railroader has it wrong, and the rest of the world has it right..
it doesnt matter than some scale designations are listed in feet, and some in inches..
IMO, the shortest, easiest scale designation should be used..and there is a precident for the "30"..HOn30 has been around for ages..no one says HO 2 1/2.
On2 is easier to understand than On24
Sn3 makes more sense than Sn36
On3 is quick and easy..No need for On36..
but! On30, even though its inches, not feet, is just a simple, easy scale designation, much easier to write and say than "O n two and one half"
There is also an established On18, Sn18, Fn18..everyone easily understands that means 18 inch gauge..no one has ever said ""O n one and one half"
and..when discussing prototypes..everyone says "30 inch gauge railroads".. "this is a model of a 30-inch gauge mexican 2-8-0"..you almost never hear "2 and one half foot gauge prototype" The Gazette has done a long series on "30-inch gauge railroads", discussing many prototype 30-inch gauge lines, because of the popularity of On30..they have never said "2 and one half foot gauge prototype railroads"
so On30 makes more sense to go along with the 30-inch gauge prototypes.
and its really irrelevant which is "correct" or not..whats really important is that the entire modeling community (except MR magazine) calls it On30..which makes it "official" in the hobby, regardless of semantics...Bachmann says On30, and they make 90% of the On30 market..and they practically invented the modern On30 market! every webpage that sells On30 products calls it On30..Every article in every magazine (except MR) calls it On30..the "On30 annual" magazine calls it On30..
99% of the hobby calls it On30..its now very well established that the entire world calls it On30...Model Railroader should just "give it up" and stop using the ridiculous and unnecessary On2 1/2..
even if they, and some, feel that On2 1/2 is "correct" it still doesnt matter..you are not going to convince the rest of the hobby to switch from On30 to On2 and 1/2...you should conform to the hobby..the hobby is not going to conform to you..
and.. if you REALLY want to have to have it absolutely correct you need to call it On2 and 7 inches! ;) or On2.58333333 ;) ..calling it On2 1/2 isnt even correct anyway! neither is On30..it should really be On31..but On30 is just easier to understand because the models are mostly of 30" gauge prototypes.
so please, Model Railroader..just give it up...the battle is lost! ;) it was lost long ago..please just call it On30 like everyone else...stubbornly insisting on calling it On2 1/2 just causes needless confusion.
Scot
Neiler So ... 1:32n2 (my scale guage combination) is G scale running on On3 track and mechanism? That should get confusing pretty fast. Neil
Neil,
that doesnt add up... G-scale is 1/22.5, On3 track has a gauge of 19mm..19mm in G-scale would equal about 17-inch gauge..For On3 track to equal 2-foot gauge you need...
oh wait..never mind..you said 1/32 scale! ok then..now the numbers work..except 1/32 is not G-scale! ;) (oh the joys of this hobby! ;) (you think you On30 guys have it bad..Large Scale is an absolute mess when it comes to these scale/gauge issues! ;)
I agree with your 32n2 scale designation...(Gn2 technically would have to be 1/22.5 scale..) I wouldnt bother with 1:32n2 though..32n2 makes sense..all scale designations have the scale first, then the prototype track gauge..HOn3, On30, etc..so 32n2 makes sense..scale, then "n" for narrow, then two foot gauge.
I "invented" 29n2 scale:
http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/29n2/
(as far as I know I invented it..I have never heard of anyone else ever modeling in it) although again..the gauges arent quite exact..both the standard gauge and the 2-foot gauge is "off" a bit..but like On30, its a compromise..I just want to model standard gauge and 2-foot gauge in the same scale..and 29n2 allows me to do that...your 32n2 is nicer in that both gauges are "correct" for standard gauge and 2-foot gauge..but I have 1/29 scale trains, not 1/32..
I chose the designation "29n2 scale" because it made the most sense..1/29 is the scale..everyone understands what that means..and n2..everyone understands what that means..so 29n2 equals 2-foot gauge in 1/29 scale..makes sense!
Nail on head, Scotty.
scottychaos IMO, Model railroader has it wrong, and the rest of the world has it right.. (snip) 99% of the hobby calls it On30..its now very well established that the entire world calls it On30...Model Railroader should just "give it up" and stop using the ridiculous and unnecessary On2 1/2..
(snip)
Given that there was an established standardized system already in place, this is sadly the same sort of ill-conceived logic that has given us the phrase, "It's my railroad and I can do it any way I please!" which has led to a high percentage of today's layouts looking like they were built by 10 year olds. Try inserting the same concept at your job and you'd soon find yourself looking for new employment.
CNJ831 scottychaos IMO, Model railroader has it wrong, and the rest of the world has it right.. (snip) 99% of the hobby calls it On30..its now very well established that the entire world calls it On30...Model Railroader should just "give it up" and stop using the ridiculous and unnecessary On2 1/2.. Given that there was an established standardized system already in place, this is sadly the same sort of ill-conceived logic that has given us the phrase, "It's my railroad and I can do it any way I please!" which has led to a high percentage of today's layouts looking like they were built by 12 year olds. CNJ831
Given that there was an established standardized system already in place, this is sadly the same sort of ill-conceived logic that has given us the phrase, "It's my railroad and I can do it any way I please!" which has led to a high percentage of today's layouts looking like they were built by 12 year olds.
Wow, all because one popular scale is called - On30!
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
CNJ831 scottychaos IMO, Model railroader has it wrong, and the rest of the world has it right.. (snip) 99% of the hobby calls it On30..its now very well established that the entire world calls it On30...Model Railroader should just "give it up" and stop using the ridiculous and unnecessary On2 1/2.. Given that there was an established standardized system already in place, this is sadly the same sort of ill-conceived logic that has given us the phrase, "It's my railroad and I can do it any way I please!" which has led to a high percentage of today's layouts looking like they were built by 10 year olds. CNJ831
Given that there was an established standardized system already in place, this is sadly the same sort of ill-conceived logic that has given us the phrase, "It's my railroad and I can do it any way I please!" which has led to a high percentage of today's layouts looking like they were built by 10 year olds.
wow..it must be nice to be SO superior to everyone else...
Well then "the world" of so called scale model railroaders is calling something thirty inches that isn't thirty inches. But then .... well, there is a naughty joke there somewhere ......
By the way, before there was On[fill in the blank] there was HO scale on N gauge track, called -- by everybody by the way -- HOn 2 1/2. It wasn't called HOn30 -- and similarly, the track was not really 30 scale inches in gauge.
I don't think "the world" has an established, standardized system - or even cares about - what model railroaders call the different sizes of their electric trains. Adding the "n" for narrow gauge was just something somebody in the hobby thought up, just like a lot of real diesel locomotive designations and "phases" are things railfans and/or modellers just made up that aren't used by the real manufacturers.
AFAIK there is no set established method for describing real narrow gauge railroads either..."two foot gauge" and "three foot gauge" are common, but I've heard "30-inch gauge" much more often than "two and one half foot gauge". I think the real trains in Newfoundland were called "forty two inch gauge" more often than "three and one half foot gauge". In general, it seems like when it comes out to an even number of feet, that is the preferred method; when it's not an even number of feet, inches seems to be used more often.
(BTW standard gauge is sometimes "four foot eight and one-half" and sometimes "fifty six and one-half inches". The trains don't seem to mind the difference.)
Anyway, I don't think it should be a big philosophical issue, it's just easier and shorter to say "Oh-N-thirty" than "Oh-N-two-and-a-half". I think it's a bit silly for MR to say that it all has to be one way - either just feet or just inches. If it's easier to use feet when it's an even number of feet, but easier to use inches when it's not an even number of feet (2-1/2'), why not go the easy route - especially when the largest manufacturer of the equipment calls it "On30" in their ads (which are helping support MR!!)
dknelson By the way, before there was On[fill in the blank] there was HO scale on N gauge track, called -- by everybody by the way -- HOn 2 1/2. It wasn't called HOn30 -- and similarly, the track was not really 30 scale inches in gauge. Dave Nelson
H0 scale on 9mm gauge track is called HOe by a goodly percentage of the world - and the country which probably has the most scale kilometers of it refers to it as 1:87/762. Any resemblance to uniformity is pretty close to nonexistent.
And if you think you have scale/gauge problems, consider 1:80 scale, which uses 16.5mm gauge to model 1067mm gauge prototypes (the proper gauge is 13.34mm) and 10.5mm gauge to model 762mm gauge prototypes (instead of 9.52mm.)
I offer a compromise. Let all the 1:48 scale people who run Maine and Colorado prototypes on HO gauged rails call the result On30, reserving On2 1/2 for those who actually model 762mm gauge prototypes in 1:48 scale. As for those who use 16.5mm gauge to represent 30 inch gauge in European 0 scale...
Chuck (ducking for cover while modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with two 762mm feeders)
Scotty, for what it's worth, I think you're exactly right.
Since n30 and n 2 1/2 specify the same thing why is there such a fuss about it.If you want to model HOn2 1/2 or On2 1/2 go right ahead.
I'll just keep building my HOn30 and On30 models.
scottychaos CNJ831 scottychaos IMO, Model railroader has it wrong, and the rest of the world has it right.. (snip) 99% of the hobby calls it On30..its now very well established that the entire world calls it On30...Model Railroader should just "give it up" and stop using the ridiculous and unnecessary On2 1/2.. Given that there was an established standardized system already in place, this is sadly the same sort of ill-conceived logic that has given us the phrase, "It's my railroad and I can do it any way I please!" which has led to a high percentage of today's layouts looking like they were built by 10 year olds. CNJ831 wow..it must be nice to be SO superior to everyone else... Scot
Not at all, Scott, just a statement of fact that is all too obvious. Just look at the majority of model train related photos posted on the various hobby forums.
tomikawaTT H0 scale on 9mm gauge track is called HOe by a goodly percentage of the world - and the country which probably has the most scale kilometers of it refers to it as 1:87/762. Any resemblance to uniformity is pretty close to nonexistent. Chuck (ducking for cover while modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with two 762mm feeders)
I recall ads in MR in the 1970's for imported "HOn9" trains which were 1:87 scale equipment that ran on 9mm N track...usually the ad was for a little diesel - kinda like a European version of a Plymouth switcher - with a couple of little four-wheel side-dump cars.