Useful article in the August MR but they failed to mention if the IHC 2-6-0 can run on code 70 rail. Has this model be upgraded to RP25 wheels or does it still have steam roller wheels suitable for only code 100 rail?
Cheers
Roger T.
Home of the late Great Eastern Railway see: - http://www.greateasternrailway.com
For more photos of the late GER see: - http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/
I haven't seen the article, but it's not that difficult to turn down the flanges. I did mine without removing them from the loco, after using masking tape to protect the mechanism. Clip some power leads to the motor, then, with the motor running at about half throttle, use the face of a cut-off disk in your Dremel tool, running at high speed, to turn down the flanges. Use very light pressure, to avoid shattering the disk, and alternate between drivers, so as to avoid overheating the tires, which might deform the plastic driver centres. Do not use the edge of the disk, as it can rapidly damage the flange. Of course, be sure to wear safety glasses when doing this procedure.
Wayne
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
rogertra wrote: Useful article in the August MR but they failed to mention if the IHC 2-6-0 can run on code 70 rail. Has this model be upgraded to RP25 wheels or does it still have steam roller wheels suitable for only code 100 rail?
Just for general info, the IHC 2-6-0 is based on the SP M-4 class ( ilt by Cooke between 1899 and 1901 if memory serves) They're actually pretty close in dimension to the New Haven K-1b and the B&M B-15 as well other late 19th/early 20th century moguls like this one: http://www.cashgroth.com/ho/mstl304.html
The one real glaring discrepancy for SP fans is the oversized tender, originally used by Pemco to house the drive. The tender could probably be shortened similarly to the way Pryke did it in the article to create something that more closely resembles the 52R-1 (I believe) SP tender. Alternatively, SP modelers could use the 7000 gallon Vanderbilt tender from the old MDC Harriman locos (the Spectrum "medium" is too large for this class of engine). With a little work (i.e. scratchbuilt straight boiler and MDC "Harriman" cab), you could come pretty close to SP's M-6, M-8 and M-9 moguls. With those, the Spectrum tender would be appropriate as would the MDC 7000 gal tender.
I don't know what the driving wheelbase is on the Athearn 4-4-0, but it looks like it might be useable (with 73" drivers from Bowser) to create an SP E-23 4-4-0 as they used the same boilers. However, the pilot would have to be lowered a bit. The IHC 4-4-0 mechanism doesn't even come close.
Andre
Incidentally, there's an NERS brass NYNH&H K1b 2-6-0 for sale right now on EBay. Take a look and see how close John Pryke with his kitbash. http://tinyurl.com/6pqj42
From the looks of it, the kitbash is pretty close, not to mention being cheaper than a brass engine.
andrechapelon wrote:Just for general info, the IHC 2-6-0 is based on the SP M-4 class ( ilt by Cooke between 1899 and 1901 if memory serves) They're actually pretty close in dimension to the New Haven K-1b and the B&M B-15 ....
Just for general info, the IHC 2-6-0 is based on the SP M-4 class ( ilt by Cooke between 1899 and 1901 if memory serves) They're actually pretty close in dimension to the New Haven K-1b and the B&M B-15 ....
Here's an ex-B&M B-15, modified slightly for my free-lance road.
Future plans include a more modern cab and piston valves, and probably a clear-vision tender.
andrechapelon wrote: Just for general info, the IHC 2-6-0 is based on the SP M-4 class ( ilt by Cooke between 1899 and 1901 if memory serves) ....The one real glaring discrepancy for SP fans is the oversized tender, originally used by Pemco to house the drive. The tender could probably be shortened similarly to the way Pryke did it in the article to create something that more closely resembles the 52R-1 (I believe) SP tender. Alternatively, SP modelers could use the 7000 gallon Vanderbilt tender from the old MDC Harriman locos (the Spectrum "medium" is too large for this class of engine). With a little work (i.e. scratchbuilt straight boiler and MDC "Harriman" cab), you could come pretty close to SP's M-6, M-8 and M-9 moguls. With those, the Spectrum tender would be appropriate as would the MDC 7000 gal tender. Andre
Just for general info, the IHC 2-6-0 is based on the SP M-4 class ( ilt by Cooke between 1899 and 1901 if memory serves) ....
Andre, your statement that a medium-sized Vanderbilt tender would be inappropiate for an M-4 is a risky conclusion given the SP proclivity for swapping tenders among locomotives. However, I have no evidence in hand to say you are incorrect. Most pictures I have of M-4s show them towing smallish rectangular tenders with tall, long oil bunkers, or short Vandys. However, I have two photos of whaleback tenders behind M-4s. I assume the whalebacks came from the early cab-forward Mallets. Those whalebacks overwhelm the locos. I do have photos of M-6s, built the year (1901) after the M-4s but 14% heavier, sporting medium-length Vandys. Obviously, the choice of era would impact the appropriateness of a particular tender. (Photos referenced here are in Duane Karam, Jr.'s SP 2-6-0 Pictorial.)
Mark
I made that caveat about the M-4's based on photos I'd seen (mostly from "A Century Of Southern Pacific Steam Locomotives). It's not entirely out of the question that M-4's got bigger Vanderbilts given SP's proclivity to change tenders more often than engine crews changed their underwear, just that I've never seen pictures of larger Vandies behind the M-4's. The M-4's were rapidly outclassed as first line power early in the 20th Century by the Harriman Standard locos. It would make sense that they were rather rapidly relegated to local service early on, negating the need for higher capacity tenders.
As for the whalebacks, IIRC they came in several different sizes ranging from 7300 gallons to 12,000 gallons in water capacity. I don't have the particular pictorial mentioned, so I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to the size of the tender without seeing the picture. I have seen pictures of M-6's with what look to be tenders of the 98SC variety.
M-4 #1654 is pictured here with one of the 70C Vandies: http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/steam-01/1654_sp-steam-m04-gene_deimling.jpg
From a purely esthetic view, that's a much prettier engine than it would be with a larger tender.
M-6 with a "whaleback": http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/steam-01/1725_sp-steam-m06-gene_deimling.jpg I could be wrong, but I think that's a 73SC-1 tender.
M-6 with a 10,000 gallon Vandy (100C something or other) http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/steam-01/1758_sp-steam-m06-byron_bostwick.jpg
andrechapelon wrote: As for the whalebacks, IIRC they came in several different sizes ranging from 7300 gallons to 12,000 gallons in water capacity. I don't have the particular pictorial mentioned, so I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to the size of the tender without seeing the picture. I have seen pictures of M-6's with what look to be tenders of the 98SC variety.M-6 with a "whaleback": http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/steam-01/1725_sp-steam-m06-gene_deimling.jpg I could be wrong, but I think that's a 73SC-1 tender.
Thanks, Andre,
The two whalebacked M-4s I referred to each had different sizes of whalebacks. Unfortunately, I don't have information on their classification. Both are larger than the whaleback in the above which is a "squashed" variant. "My" picture of M-4 1644 taken in November 1946 at Los Angeles shows a "normal-looking" whaleback tender at least as tall the the loco's boiler. Picture of M-4 1685 taken in June 1953 at Roseville has a very large whaleback where the fuel section is of slightly larger diameter than the water section and is at least as tall as the cab roof.
There may have been more variants, but the whalebacks I remember are the 73SC-1, 98SC-1 and the 120SC-1. IIRC, it was the 120SC type that had the oil bunker of a larger diameter than the water cistern. I'm not sure, but that may have been a result of rebuilding the oil bunker to increase capacity. Some of the 73SC's were originally built for SP's Vauclain compound A-1 4-4-2's from what I remember. Unfortunately, my copy of Arnold Menke's compilation of SP tender diagrams is back in California, so I'm limited to memory. As I recall, some, if not all of the B-1 2-8-4's purchased second hand from the B&M got 120SC tenders when they were converted to oil.
For those of you who are not SP fans, SP's tender classification was quite simple. The numbers indicated water capacity in the nearest 100's of gallons, the letters indicated whether the tender was rectangular, cylindrical or semi-cylindrical ("whaleback") and the number after the dash indicated the series. For example, a 160C-3 tender was of 16,000 gallon capacity, cylindrical , third series. Spectrum's "Hicken" (misnomer) is an example of a 160C-x tender. Their "medium" Vanderbilt appears to me to be a 9,000 gallon tender (90C-x) as the 10,000 gallon Vandies were a bit longer. The tender that comes behind the IHC 2-6-0 is a 52R-x tender (5200 gallon Rectangular) that was lengthened by Pemco to accommodate the tender drive. Model Die Casting's short Vandy is a 70C (7000 gallon) tender.
SP tenders are an interesting study in and of themelves. They had quite a variety, not only those built new for SP, but also the tenders which came with second hand engines.
Jason
Modeling the Fort Worth & Denver of the early 1970's in N scale
jguess733 wrote:It's funny that you guys are talking about SP tenders, I just ordered Common Standard Diagrams of Tenders from the SP historical and Technical Society. I've been thinking about kitbashing/scratching a whale back tender for some time but haven't been able to figure the dimensions. Actually I ran across that book completely by accident while googleing something else.
I mailed my order for the book yesterday.
andrechapelon wrote: There may have been more variants, but the whalebacks I remember are the 73SC-1, 98SC-1 and the 120SC-1. IIRC, it was the 120SC type that had the oil bunker of a larger diameter than the water cistern. I'm not sure, but that may have been a result of rebuilding the oil bunker to increase capacity. Some of the 73SC's were originally built for SP's Vauclain compound A-1 4-4-2's from what I remember. Unfortunately, my copy of Arnold Menke's compilation of SP tender diagrams is back in California, so I'm limited to memory. As I recall, some, if not all of the B-1 2-8-4's purchased second hand from the B&M got 120SC tenders when they were converted to oil. For those of you who are not SP fans, SP's tender classification was quite simple. The numbers indicated water capacity in the nearest 100's of gallons, the letters indicated whether the tender was rectangular, cylindrical or semi-cylindrical ("whaleback") and the number after the dash indicated the series. For example, a 160C-3 tender was of 16,000 gallon capacity, cylindrical , third series. Spectrum's "Hicken" (misnomer) is an example of a 160C-x tender. Their "medium" Vanderbilt appears to me to be a 9,000 gallon tender (90C-x) as the 10,000 gallon Vandies were a bit longer. The tender that comes behind the IHC 2-6-0 is a 52R-x tender (5200 gallon Rectangular) that was lengthened by Pemco to accommodate the tender drive. Model Die Casting's short Vandy is a 70C (7000 gallon) tender. Andre
The feedback I got from another forum was that the M-4s pictured had 73-SC-? and 120-SC-? whaleback tenders.
I have two M-6 models. One has a 90-R-? (rectangular) tender and the other a 100-C-? (Vanderbilt).
I'm not sure how much the book will help you. It contains line drawings with general dimensions, but that's all. You're going to need some good photos for the rest. PASmith, who posts on a more or less regular basis created a whaleback for his kitbashed Mantua 4-8-0 using the chassis of the IHC 2-6-0 tender.
Here's a shot of TW-8 equipped with what looks to me like a 73SC series tender: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2921.JPG
And another: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2921A.JPG
2-8-0 #2534 with a larger whaleback: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2534.JPG
2585: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2585Z2.JPG
Detail of front end of 120SC tender on MK-4 3222: http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/steam-02/3222_sp-steam-mk04-gene_deimling.jpg
Mogul #1725: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP1725.JPG
Mogul #1765 still exists with its whaleback tender at Lomita, CA. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/losangeles/sp1765.jpg
Location: http://lomita-rr.org/
andrechapelon wrote: jguess733 wrote:It's funny that you guys are talking about SP tenders, I just ordered Common Standard Diagrams of Tenders from the SP historical and Technical Society. I've been thinking about kitbashing/scratching a whale back tender for some time but haven't been able to figure the dimensions. Actually I ran across that book completely by accident while googleing something else.I'm not sure how much the book will help you. It contains line drawings with general dimensions, but that's all. You're going to need some good photos for the rest. PASmith, who posts on a more or less regular basis created a whaleback for his kitbashed Mantua 4-8-0 using the chassis of the IHC 2-6-0 tender.Here's a shot of TW-8 equipped with what looks to me like a 73SC series tender: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2921.JPGAnd another: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2921A.JPG2-8-0 #2534 with a larger whaleback: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2534.JPG2585: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2585Z2.JPGDetail of front end of 120SC tender on MK-4 3222: http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/steam-02/3222_sp-steam-mk04-gene_deimling.jpgMogul #1725: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP1725.JPGMogul #1765 still exists with its whaleback tender at Lomita, CA. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/losangeles/sp1765.jpgLocation: http://lomita-rr.org/Andre Andre
PASMITH wrote:I may not have done enough due diligence on the Whaleback that I recently built but you have to stop researching somewhere and start building.
My sentiments exactly.
Very nice work, Peter, not only on the tender, but the loco, too.