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Speedometers...what are you all using?

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Posted by mike_ruby on Sunday, July 6, 2008 1:17 PM
 dstarr wrote:

Ruler and stop watch, works for me.  I measured the length of the mainline with an ordinary steel tape measure (bends around curves).  Convert from inches to miles by dividing by 12 to make it feet, and then dividing by 5280  to make it miles.  Multiple by 87 to make it HO scale miles.  Convert seconds to hours by dividing by 3600.   For extra accuracy time a couple of loops around the main line.  If you don't get the same (or nearly the same) time, you have a measurement problem.  

 



That's great if you have a simple loop. To do a continuous run my locos would have to go three times around the room, up and down 2.5% - 4% grades and around numerous curves.

I'm working on a rolling road speedo. The rolling road is built, the difficult bit is picking up the speed from the rollers. I have an optical detector working, but not reliable enough yet.

For now the speedo car is still my best way.

Mike Ruby
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Posted by dstarr on Sunday, July 6, 2008 11:00 AM
 wjstix wrote:

You can do it by timing the train as it goes around the layout. My last layout's continous run loop turned out to be very close to one scale kilometer in length, so it was easy to work out speeds in KPH (If at train took 1 minute to go around the loop, it was going 60 KPH; two minutes = 30 KPH etc.) and then convert that to scale MPH's.

BTW an easy way to measure your mainline is to make up a train of cars and juggle the cars of varying length around until you come up with a train that is say 3' long. Then you can push the 'train' around the layout one trainlength at a time until you've gone all the way around the layout. Then multiply the number of trainlengths by 3' or however long the train is. That way, you don't have to try to use pi to calculate the curved tracks. Once you know how long the mainline is, it's pretty easy to convert that to scale miles, and then to calculate how fast a train is going if it takes x amt of time to go around the layout once.

Of course, you can just mark of a shorter distance on the layout and do it that way, but the longer the 'sample' is you take, the more accurate the result will be.

Ruler and stop watch, works for me.  I measured the length of the mainline with an ordinary steel tape measure (bends around curves).  Convert from inches to miles by dividing by 12 to make it feet, and then dividing by 5280  to make it miles.  Multiple by 87 to make it HO scale miles.  Convert seconds to hours by dividing by 3600.   For extra accuracy time a couple of loops around the main line.  If you don't get the same (or nearly the same) time, you have a measurement problem.  

 

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Posted by mike_ruby on Sunday, July 6, 2008 7:59 AM
Walthers were going to make the wireless readout, but in the end dropped it. It would have fitted into their dynamometer car, the same as I used for my speedo car, see earlier in this thread.

I've tried a wireless bicycle speedo, but found it doesn't have much range, I plan to play with it a bit to see if I can increase it.

Mike Ruby


A few years ago;it seems someone (Walthers?) introduced some kind of wireless measurement car and maybe there's something that could be used from there. IIRC a shoe company (Nike?) came out with a shoe sensor that transmitted running data to a watch for display. Combining the bicycle speedometer with something like that would be a neat DIY project.
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Posted by Alantrains on Sunday, July 6, 2008 6:56 AM

One simple speedometer is to use a bicycle speedometer, I bought mine at Big W (like Walmart) It has a small LCD display with 2 buttons and a remote wired reed switch. You're supposed to put a magnet on the bike wheel and it counts the revolutions and using the wheel diameter or circumference calculates the speed. Just use the scale wheel diameter in the calculation the speedo askes for when you set it up. Use the magnet and reed switch supplied with the speedo or maybe a smaller magnet on the axle of an old freight car. the whole thing fits in a box car if you're modeling in HO and is sufficiently accurate for most things.

cheers 

Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)

 

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Posted by IDAHOSURGE on Saturday, July 5, 2008 12:24 PM

ShadowNix,

I was wondering if you bought the speedometer car from CP4E and if you did what do you think? 

Rod

 

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Posted by ShadowNix on Sunday, May 11, 2008 2:49 PM

Thanks... I found that out and have the 2006 Sept RMC being mailed to me.... I will document my progress if I have time!

Brian

"That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"
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Posted by mike_ruby on Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:39 AM
Sorry I'm a bit slow replying, but I don't receive reply notification from the forum (yes its is selected, but emails don't get to me).

The article was in RMC Sept 2006.
The left meter is the draw bar pull meter as fitted as standard in these Walthers cars. The marks are about 1oz of pull apart.

Mike Ruby
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Posted by stan2004 on Monday, May 5, 2008 10:48 AM

I custom-built a wireless speedo not so much for tuning CVs, but to monitor consist speed in real time. The sensor used the optical interrupter wheel method with many evenly-spaced holes around the circumference.  The wheel is limited in size by needing to clear turnouts or grade crossings but maximum holes were needed to get good resolution at slow speeds.  The flatcar is powered by 3 AAA batteries and transmits the data over RF.  The receiver displays scale MPH or can switch to an odometer for elapsed distance.  An RS-232 output in the receiver sends info in real time to a PC such as for data logging or plotting speed vs. time. 

My eventual goal, if I ever get to it, is to integrate this into a car located behind the tender with a strain gauge to measure ounces of drawbar pull.  Combined with the speed data, I could watch scale Horsepower in real-time just like the prototype dynamometer car.  I haven't worked on this for years now and see that superior wireless methods are now more readily available - custom-built stuff just takes too much effort.  Bluetooth modules with their tiny antennas would fit completely in a car whilst I used the FM radio band which required longer antennas for good range.  A few years ago it seems someone (Walthers?) introduced some kind of wireless measurement car and maybe there's something that could be used from there.  IIRC a shoe company (Nike?) came out with a shoe sensor that transmitted running data to a watch for display.  Combining the bicycle speedometer with something like that would be a neat DIY project. 

 

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Posted by ShadowNix on Saturday, May 3, 2008 1:55 PM

Wow, mike...NICE!!! Again, do you remember what article/year?  I will have to find that article!  Man looks really nice.  Is the meter on the L for the weight/drag?

Brian

"That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"
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Posted by mike_ruby on Saturday, May 3, 2008 1:34 PM
I've found out how to post photos, so here are some of my speedo car.


This shows the reed switch


This shows the bare car with the speedo installed


This the completed car, still to be painted.

Mike Ruby
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Posted by ShadowNix on Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:57 PM

Sorry if I was not clear in my last posts... I have DCC (NCE Powerhouse Pro)

Brian

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Posted by Flashwave on Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:12 PM
 IronGoat wrote:

Flashwave... how do you convert the readout to scale mph when you use that "gun"???

 IronGoat

 

 

There's a switch reads "scale"

Also, I saw the Toys R Us in Ohio had booku of them for 7.76 Some Sound decoders will actually tell you the speed.

-Morgan

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Posted by Don Gibson on Sunday, April 27, 2008 4:30 PM

My thoughts:

One Speedometer is 'fixed', the other mobile.  Matching engine drive's gearnig with DC is problematical as you can 'comparison select', but not 'change'.

DCC allows some modifications, but you haven't stated that you HAVE DCC, or which brand therof, therefor I am assuming you don't.

With DC, your best bet is to buy multiples of the same engine, from the same manufacture, and from the came production run. I have three Kato SD-45's, two from the same production run (which run together) and one a year older, which doesn't.

Manufacurers change motors, lighting circuits, etc. People buy DCC to give them increased control - or is it simpler wiring? Individual speed control is one of the benefits of DCC - I think.

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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Posted by mike_ruby on Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:27 PM
The cost to build a speedo car is low, the car, the cheapest bike speedo you can find (the wired type are best) about £5 ($10), a reed switch and a magnet. The magnet is mounted on an axle, with the reedswitch close enough to be operated once per rev of the wheels, but not so close that the switch never turns off (check it when the truck swivels). The reed switch is connected across the speedos sensor wires. You then need to set the bike speedo wheel size to the scale size of the wheel with the magnet, this will make it read out in scale miles per hour. One problem may be that the speedo will not go upto 33", in which case fit two magnets and set it to half the diameter.

The article was in RMC Sept 2006, the author used a springy contact, but I think a reed switch will be more reliable.

I'm not sure how to put pictures on this site, although I would not do it the same way again, as it involved a lot of butchering to the speedo to make it fit. A hi-cube box car with open door would be easier, or a flat / gondola for a lower layout.

Mike Ruby
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Posted by Kenfolk on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:08 PM

My system:

"Looky there, Bubba--that loco's movin' on down the track FAST!"

or

"Let's see what Tim Taylor and some Binford Tools can do to speed up this one."

 

Laugh [(-D]

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Posted by Brian M on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:10 PM

Brian

Yes - doing proper 28-step speed-matches allows complete universality of being able to operate any loco with any other.

It is interesting that, in this world-wide, but US-oriented site, there are but two of us (myself and Mike Ruby - see above) independently advocating on behalf of the 28-step speed curve - Mike lives about 4 miles from me, on the other side of Plymouth, in the UK, we both are members the local US Model Railroading club, and I know him well.  As can be gleaned from his own answer, he knows how do lots of stuff I couldn't even begin to grasp, but even I can readily custom speed-curve my whole loco fleet using the towed speedo.

Brian M  

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Posted by ShadowNix on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:58 AM
 Brian M wrote:

Glad I could be of Help, Brian.  It's worthwhile spending the time doing it.

Brian M

I agree... I have some 3.3% grades that require double or triple heading for any real train length... I find consisting them at the base of the hill gives some interesting operations, but you have to have them well matched to get them to work!  I have an FA-FB set that works well, (same motor, same decoder, so duh....pretty easy, even for me!).  BUT, I just got a GP7 and H16-44, as well as a RSC-2 I would like to have the option of consisting on or two.... I think the time you pay to do it up front RIGHT will make it easier later...

Brian

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Posted by ShadowNix on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:55 AM

Interesting thought.  How much did the whole thing cost you?  Any pic's of it to share so we could view/get an idea?  And, do you remember which magazine/year?  (I will search on this!)

Brian

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Posted by mike_ruby on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:13 AM
Hi

I use a speedo car built from a dynamometer car and a bike speedo, there was an article in MR a few years ago on fitting one to a gondola. I set all my 28 steps to the same speeds on all locos. I use DecoderPro to set the CVs. I find that because most of my locos run with BEMF accurate speed matching stops them dragging or slipping when in consists, I have up to 4% grades so my locos have to work hard! I also set accelerations and decelerations the same, in my case 0-70mph in 50 seconds and 70-0 in 25 seconds.

As I've just removed the continuous run connection on my layout I'm now planning to fit a speedo to my rolling road, (another bike speedo) then I can set them on the bench.

Mike Ruby
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Posted by Brian M on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:01 AM

Glad I could be of Help, Brian.  It's worthwhile spending the time doing it.

Brian M

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Posted by ShadowNix on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:40 PM
 Brian M wrote:

With all due respect to jrbernier and wjstix, using only two CVs (plus momentum in 3 & 4) to adjust the mid and start speeds is very "rough and ready", and will not give you nearly as much running similarity as you would by inputting a whole 28-step custom speed-curve using CV29 Bit4-1 and then CVs 67 through to 94.

This allows you to give each speed step a specific speed, so that each locomotive you own (irrespective of manufacturer) will run at an identical speed at each speed step. This is why a wagon towed behind the locomotive IS so useful - you decide upon a specific set of speed levels you require for all your locomotives, and then adjust each loco to match each selected speed at each point in the 28-step curve, using the read-out from the towed wagon to adjust things accordingly.  It's best (obviously!) to do this on a loop where all the track is constantly visible, so that you can always see the read-out.

As an example, using this method, all of my locomotives will run at a scale 8mph at speed step 5, 12smph at step 7 etc.  That is something you cannot achieve simply by using one start point, one mid point and one max point, especially with the different running characteristics of different manufacturer's motors.

So the statement "a speedometer would only help you match the top speed basically" is incorrect.  You will still have to adjust momentum individually too, with this method, but that is not too much of a problem, and takes only a couple of minutes to match them up, using a "master" locomotive.

This method obviously takes a wee bit longer than just using three CVs, but provides an almost perfect match.  I reckon I can input a 28-step speed-curve into a locomotive in 20 minutes.  My BLI and IM Cab-Forwards, Bachmann consolidations, Athearn Genesis and Proto F7s, Proto SD7s, SD9s, GP9s, FA/Bs, 2-8-8-2s and Trix mikados ALL run at identical speeds right through the 28 steps. 

Brian  

Exactly what I am trying to do!!!  Thanks!

Brian

"That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"
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Posted by MudHen_462 on Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:57 AM

 johncolley wrote:
Why the need for "gadgets"? I'm lucky, I guess, because I use mostly all 40 footers and all I have to do is count seconds for 2 cars to go past a tree, signal, building, or any other object. Real 60 mph = 88 ft/sec. HO is 1/87 scale and 40 foot cars are about 6" over the couplers, eh? So 2 cars = 1 foot and 1 second = 60 mph approximately, which my late '40's/early '50's freights would never do. But the rest is very simple math....2 sec= 30mph, 3 sec=20, 4 sec=15, 5 sec=12, 6 sec=10, 8sec=7 1/2, 10 sec=6, 12 sec=5. Enjoy! jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

Good idea, John....  I have all 40 footers also, so that'll work just fine!!!

 Thanks,  Bob  ( IronGoat ) 

 

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Posted by johncolley on Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:25 AM
Why the need for "gadgets"? I'm lucky, I guess, because I use mostly all 40 footers and all I have to do is count seconds for 2 cars to go past a tree, signal, building, or any other object. Real 60 mph = 88 ft/sec. HO is 1/87 scale and 40 foot cars are about 6" over the couplers, eh? So 2 cars = 1 foot and 1 second = 60 mph approximately, which my late '40's/early '50's freights would never do. But the rest is very simple math....2 sec= 30mph, 3 sec=20, 4 sec=15, 5 sec=12, 6 sec=10, 8sec=7 1/2, 10 sec=6, 12 sec=5. Enjoy! jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA
jc5729
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Posted by ChrisNH on Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:24 AM

Isn't how each locomotive performs under load, and the size of that load, going to have a big impact?

I have been debating how I want to approach speed matching, and wondering how useful it would be outside of a MU of identical locmotives since once you put some cars behind the loco its speed is going vary from model to model, or so it would seem to me.

chris 

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:13 AM

You can do it by timing the train as it goes around the layout. My last layout's continous run loop turned out to be very close to one scale kilometer in length, so it was easy to work out speeds in KPH (If at train took 1 minute to go around the loop, it was going 60 KPH; two minutes = 30 KPH etc.) and then convert that to scale MPH's.

BTW an easy way to measure your mainline is to make up a train of cars and juggle the cars of varying length around until you come up with a train that is say 3' long. Then you can push the 'train' around the layout one trainlength at a time until you've gone all the way around the layout. Then multiply the number of trainlengths by 3' or however long the train is. That way, you don't have to try to use pi to calculate the curved tracks. Once you know how long the mainline is, it's pretty easy to convert that to scale miles, and then to calculate how fast a train is going if it takes x amt of time to go around the layout once.

Of course, you can just mark of a shorter distance on the layout and do it that way, but the longer the 'sample' is you take, the more accurate the result will be.

Stix
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Posted by UpNorth on Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:24 AM
If your layout is equiped with block detection and you have JMRI, you can use the included Speedometer to give you scale MPH.
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Posted by MudHen_462 on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:26 PM

Flashwave... how do you convert the readout to scale mph when you use that "gun"???

 IronGoat

 

 

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Posted by Flashwave on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:05 PM

I use

 Or I would, If I could find mine again...

25 bucks at walmart/target/hobbytown USA

-Morgan

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Posted by dinwitty on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:51 PM

I used to inspect equipment for the club, for locomotives I made a 10 foot mark and timed it for slow, mid, and high speeds. Then the operator had an engine card and could estimate the running speed based on throttle position.

I tried to make a speedometer car but the project waffed, never finished it. I decided doing a speedometer isnt really the big deal that it needs to be or could be, its a nifty oh thats cool, but I don't thinkl for the model I will be trying to run at required "35mph" limits than to guessimate my speed. I think its an interesting idea if you have one to use to work the mind how fast your really going, but I will use my eye as my speed guess. I know when my train is slow, and fast...

 

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