This review is on Life-Like's Proto 2000 E7A diesel.
The E7 being reviewed isn't the newest version of this engine, but I'm not sure it's the oldest either. It has some features and finer details that aren't on older P2K E8s, but it came with horn-hook couplers instead of P2K knuckle couplers. Everything on the E7 is very finely detailed, with nice smooth castings and very little flash on the all plastic details. The Wabash E7s come with a longer passenger pilot and smaller fuel tank installed. It came with an optional freight pilot and long distance fuel tank, so I put them on instead because I think they look better. The only detail parts that have to be installed by the modeler are the coupler lift bars that go on the rear pilot and freight pilot, and the small doors that go on the passenger pilot. The front lift bar presses in place, but the rear one slips in and is held on by the MU hoses. It would be best to leave it unglued to make taking the shell off easier for things like lubrication and DCC (it can easily catch on the rear coupler box and break if it isn't taken off before removing the shell). The shell has dozens of very fine separate detail parts installed, like the grab irons, lift rings, steps and many other parts. One thing I found to be rather neat is that all the side doors and rear door can be opened, but they spring back closed once you let go of them. The vents along the sides of the engine are finely molded, but you can't see through them. The windshield wipers are molded onto the windshield, but they're very detailed and look very good. The cab has a very detailed interior with a crew, but Life-Like left it black instead of painting it. Painting it heavily improved the look of the cab. The diaphram on the back of the engine works when you have two of these engine coupled closely, adding even more realism to this already very detailed engine. The trucks are as detailed as the rest of the engine with detailed air cylinders, brakes, and suspension detail. The bearing caps over each wheel slide freely in the sideframes and hang on axles sticking out of the wheels, so they actually move up and down as the wheels do! The paint is very smoothly coated, with nice color separation and very fine lettering, but there are a few spots where the colors fade into eachother a little. The headlight uses a dual filiment light bulb hooked up to some advanced lighting electronics, so the engine appears to have a working directional MARS light, adding even more neat effects to this engine.
When I first bought the E7, the motor was mounted about 2-3mm too high, so the weight was pressing down on the top of the motor and carrying noise from the vibration through the whole engine, and the very large flywheels were also a little off balance, which made it even noisier. After lowering the motor and balancing the flywheels, the E7 ran very quietly at all speeds with very little gear and motor noise. At 12 volts, the engine eventually reached about 81 scale MPH, but it takes a few seconds to get up to speed because of the flywheels. I managed to get the engine to crawl at a steady 3.5 scale MPH. Running free at 12 volts, it drew an average of 0.25 amps of electrical current, and 1.1 amps when stalled. The combonation of the 12 wheel drive mechanism, weight and two sprung axles gives this engine enough traction that I'd think it could pull over 80 cars. The nickle plated wheels are blackened and have RP-25 flanges, and have the correct 36" diameter. The couplers are mounted in swinging coupler boxes for better operation on tight curves. The boxes hang down a little, but it's not enough to cause problems. The PC board has a DCC plug for easy DCC installation, which was a feature unfortunately not found in the oldest P2K E units. I don't see much room for sound, so it would be best to just buy the sound equipped E7s instead of trying to put sound in one of these.
This version of Life-Like's Proto 2000 E7 is one of the neatest and quietest running engines I've ever seen. They can also be had for pretty cheap (I got mine for $42, mint in box), and I don't think anyone who gets one will be disappointed with their purchase.
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Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Very satisfied with my P2K E7s. Heavy as bricks and scale wise they will outpull the prototypes. The body detailing is superb. The cab, carbody, and rear doors are openable. To make a door remain in an open position is a simple matter of carefully bending the spring on it back slightly.
The only downside I find with the P2K E units is that the lift rings on the roof are "VERY" fragile and break easily. So the units must be handled with care.
For me, Life Like scores an A+ with these.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
No problems at all with P2K E7's (or E8's either) !
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Darth SF,
Thanks for posting re motor height mounting and flywheels-only complaint I have with P2K E8's may be due to this same problem. Definitely going to check these factors out. Converted one P2K E7 to DCC and it's fabulous. Excellent performer got even better! P2K did an excellent job with their EMD E's.
Jon
Darth:
...(quote)" After lowering the motor and balancing the flywheels ..."
HOW does one re-balance flywheels?
These locos have massive flywheels.
I found that if I twisted the flywheel on the shaft, I could experiment with getting them in better rotational blalnce with each other.
Thanks for that tip. I have a batch of P2K E units so I'll check them out in the near future before they get decoders and onboard sound.
The way I balance flywheels is to let the motor run free with the flywheels on, and while it's still running, I lightly bring a Sharpie to the off-balance area to mark where the spot is, and then I drill a hole in the middle of the line made on the flywheel. As I drill more, the flywheel causes less vibration when the motor runs, and I keep repeating the process until there's little to no vibration.
Darth Santa Fe wrote: The way I balance flywheels is to let the motor run free with the flywheels on, and while it's still running, I lightly bring a Sharpie to the off-balance area to mark where the spot is, and then I drill a hole in the middle of the line made on the flywheel. As I drill more, the flywheel causes less vibration when the motor runs, and I keep repeating the process until there's little to no vibration.
I would like to add to Darth's post. I realize what you are doing to "balance" the flywheels, however I want to mention for others not so familiar w/ this procedure that this will of course work. The turning of these flywheels is usually close enough to true for the RPM that they normaly run. To clarify, you are compensating for out of balance due to centrifical force from any shaft or mount "wobble". This is fine, but it should be noted that if for some reason the flywheel/s are turned at all on the shaft the "out of balance" vibration will be worse. This will place a new heavy spot at the out of round. I have never really found flywheels to wobble enough to do this, many times just twisting and reseating the flywheel will do the trick. If not and problems persit, then your method is the only cure.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I resume this subject since I'm a bit perplexed about Proto 2000 E7 nose's shape.
Stating first that I've never seen closely a Proto E7, or better still, I've seen it only by photo, it seems to me that , comparing it with a real EMD E7 photo or drawing, its nose's shape is less close to the real than, for example, Broadway E7's one. Particularly, it would appear as a bit more rounded in declining towards body sides. Am I wrong?
Besides the nose, I'm not so convinced with regard to P2k E7 windshield's slope and size.
On the other hand, I've read only good things about this model (and the rest of P2k production), concerning its fine body detailing level, its smoothness, its excellent running characteristics and so on.......
What do you think about its body? Have I made a blunder?
ETR_500 wrote: I resume this subject since I'm a bit perplexed about Proto 2000 E7 nose's shape.Stating first that I've never seen closely a Proto E7, or better still, I've seen it only by photo, it seems to me that , comparing it with a real EMD E7 photo or drawing, its nose's shape is less close to the real than, for example, Broadway E7's one. Particularly, it would appear as a bit more rounded in declining towards body sides. Am I wrong?Besides the nose, I'm not so convinced with regard to P2k E7 windshield's slope and size.On the other hand, I've read only good things about this model (and the rest of P2k production), concerning its fine body detailing level, its smoothness, its excellent running characteristics and so on.......What do you think about its body? Have I made a blunder?
It seems that a few manufacturers have failed to get the nose contours of E units and F units "just right". Some are closer than others. The only example I can think of somebody getting it right was Highliner with their F unit shells. I haven't seen the BLI Fs in person, but have heard that their nose countour is not as accurate as some would desire.
ETR,
You are correct. My LHS's owner is a prototype modeler and he spotted the discrepancy some years back. The nose countour has been an issue with a number of modelers. The BLI E units nose contour is accurate.
Good news is that the new P2K E units also have the correct nose contours. But I think they may have eliminated the "openable doors" on the carbody. I liked those doors!
A friend of mine who owns his own business thinks that the Chinese manufacturer that makes BLI's E unit bodies may likely be the same manufacturer making them for Walthers P2K line. IMHO that should not be surprising if it is the case. With "outsourcing" it is possible to have manufacturers reuse the same molds and dies for other customers. I've noticed this with certain tool lines.
For me, at the prices that I've purchased my E units for and those openable doors, I can live with the nose issue. Imho, the older line P2K E units are beautiful works of art.
Thank You to csmith9474, popeye9941 (I hope someone may help you about your problem) and AntonioFP45 for your kindly reply.
However, I've just ordered a CB&Q Proto E7 .... (and BLI CZ 11 car consist, as scheduled in wplives.com).... wonderful...!!!
The E units from P2k are great and I own plenty of them, both the old and the retooled versions. The noses are still not even correct on the E7 or E8/9.
I replace them on my roster with BLI units as time and money permit.
Something that must be kept in mind is that BLI E units are Built in KOREA by Ajin, not China like all their other units . The F units are Chinese also as well. The nose contours of the E units from BLI is almost perfect. Paul Lubliner (0f Highliners fame) and I were comparing them last year and were marveling at some of the subtle little contours that BLI captured (actually AJIN). The EMD bulldog nose is very complicated to capture and tool up. Only HIGHLINER and AJIN have it correct.
That said, I still have several P2k E8's that I will not part with as they run great and I have detailed them to my heart's content. I look the other way about the nose. I also have some issues with the BLI units. The Farr grilles on the E9's are some of the finest ever done while the fabricated grilles on the E8's are not etched properly and they look incomplete. The detail behind those grilles can be seen (especially on light colored units) and the BLI units have almost no detail. The RETOOLED P2k units have very nice detail in this area. I am getting close to having new grilles etched for both the P2k and BLI units.
I hate to sound like I know it all as I do not. But I know E units. I have run, ridden, chased, photographed, modeled, made parts for, eaten, slept............you get the idea. They are my favorite power and have been since 1972.
Thanks, Keith Turley/ Details West
Thanks a lot, Keith, for your enlightening reply....
So, if I understand well, the new P2K E units (without openable doors, but with DCC and sound) don't have the correct nose contours. However, having ordered just this version (DCC & sound), I'm very curious to see it....
You will be happy, I'm sure. I have some of the new ones that I have put Loksound in. They are great runners. There was some debate about the older versus new drive. My new ones run quiet and smoother than my older ones, YMMV. I have some I just got in from Walthers that I haven't even opened yet.
Lifelike did some work on the E8/9 molds a few years before Walthers bought them out. They eliminated most of the opening doors, retooled the area behind the side grilles, and took off the "ridge" around the windshields that supposedly represented the gasket. There were a few other small changes as well. That was also the time that they finally tooled a "B" unit. I was cutting noses off and splicing to get B units before they came out with them. The E7 has had very little done to it. The E8/9 is not bad, but, the nose on the E7 really bothers me. I have an unfinished E7 that I cut the nose off of an Intermountain F7 and grafted it onto a P2k body. The Intermountain and P2k have almost the same width and cross section. A Highliner body will not work- Don't ask how I know!-lol. When BLI came out with their E7, I abandoned these projects.
I am primarily a Mopac modeler. I am in the design mode for having new side panels etched with the proper portoles and vents for MP/TP E7's. I have some of the resin ones available a few years ago, but, they are very crude and do not fit well. Good Luck with your units.
Keith Turley/ Details West
Dear Keith and dear US friends,
being not expert about "forties and fifties" US (wonderful) railroads, I have to admit my sincere curiosity in learning increasingly new things on this field....(after all, my prime interest are italian and european railways....). The only thing I can say is that I've started a love affair with US trains belonging to the range from 20's to 60's and crossing every track mile of your giant country....
I report here what I've read on www.prrths.com June 2006 modeler PDF:
"...One of the first issues Walthers recognized with the PROTO 2000 line was that the (E7's) nose to the original Life Like tooling was wrong and,realizing that there is actually no truly accurate E-7 on the market, they have made a commitment to re-tooling the nose to get it correct. Once corrected, Walthers can then move to correct the F-3 and the E-8 in their line. The units will be offered with or without sound, working diaphragms, see through steps, mesh screening with visible interior bracing, ........(etc.)...................Finally,a correct E-7 as a starting point for the later PRR modified units and remember the B units! It will be ready this winter."
Then....on new DCC & sound units, nose contour has been corrected....!!!
Or it hasn't been?
I think that is great if Walthers will do it. If you look at the pictures on their website of the last E7's they have from the latest run, the nose has not been changed. It is very plain in the photos. The location of the numberboards vs. the curve of the nose at the outside bottom edge of the windshields gives it away. The nose curve here is way off .The text touts the "correct bulldog nose". Maybe it will be coming in future runs. I love how it is stated that no E7 is correct. The BLI is very close.
Keith,
You knowledge of the bulldogs is impressive and helpful. I now know what to look for in better detail.
Thanks for sharing.
I really confirm what Antonio has told about your knowledge of the "bulldogs". Your contribution is really irreplaceable, above all for me, unfamiliar to US railroads.
Thanks a lot....and WELCOME to the forum.