B23-7 versus U-Boat 23

[Anonymous]

I have recently acquired an N-scale B23-7 in Southern's ritzy Tuxedo scheme, but have discovered to my horror that the B23-7 was a "third generation" locomotive that replaced the U-23B, which began production in 1977. This is (shock! awe!) 6 years later than what I model, and so the engine is going to be an anachronism unless I do somethig about it.

What are the major differences between it and its predecessor? Is it possible to kitbash an earlier U-boat from one of these? I was mainly drawn to the engine because it came with Southern's distinctive high nose, a feature that is hard to achieve on GE units. Should I just leave it as-is, seeing as how it is lettered for a road that I don't even have any modeled interchange with and it would only be "guest" motive power on my layout?

I love Alco's, I can spot EMD's well, but I know pure diddly about GE's.

[Anonymous]

I have recently acquired an N-scale B23-7 in Southern's ritzy Tuxedo scheme, but have discovered to my horror that the B23-7 was a "third generation" locomotive that replaced the U-23B, which began production in 1977. This is (shock! awe!) 6 years later than what I model, and so the engine is going to be an anachronism unless I do somethig about it.

What are the major differences between it and its predecessor? Is it possible to kitbash an earlier U-boat from one of these? I was mainly drawn to the engine because it came with Southern's distinctive high nose, a feature that is hard to achieve on GE units. Should I just leave it as-is, seeing as how it is lettered for a road that I don't even have any modeled interchange with and it would only be "guest" motive power on my layout?

I love Alco's, I can spot EMD's well, but I know pure diddly about GE's.

[fec153]

Who cares. Do u like it? Run it. Anyone asks, its a prototype.
ITS YOUR R.R......

[fec153]

Who cares. Do u like it? Run it. Anyone asks, its a prototype.
ITS YOUR R.R......

[Anonymous]

I care... this should be a bit obvious since I posted the question...

[Anonymous]

I care... this should be a bit obvious since I posted the question...

[ironhorseman]

I think what fec153 is trying to say is don't get too obsessed with technical differences. Does it really matter in the end?

But despite all that, since you brought it up I myself became curious as to what the differences are/where. I tried to search the GE website but wasn't successful. I consulted the book "A Field Guide To Trains" by Gerald Foster.

The hard data:
U23B: 60' 2"; 2,250hp; 12 cyl; 1968-1977; 425 built
summary: 100s still in use to this day, have 6 full height access doors on either side. Foster writes "Counting access doors may seem unexciting... but in the case of GE and their many model numbers for nearly the same locomotive, the alternative is to be satisfied with "U-Boat."

GE B23-7: 62' 2"; 2,250hp; 12 cyl; 1977-1984; 421 built (appox)
summary: recognized by distinct step in hood forward of radiators. point where hood widens now ahead of exhaust stack and behind tall engine access doors. it's 2ft longer but trucks are still centered the same, space added at the end platforms. longer forward handrail and wider where platform meets steps. trucks: Blombuerg to GE floating-bolster. "A few where built with high nose and run backward."

It's not all word-for-word from the book but I hope my editing still makes it clear. There's a sketch of the B23-7 and not one of the U23B, but rather the one of the U36B and it is hard for me to tell the difference between the two.

You might want to check out
http://paintshop.railfan.net/ge.html
for some detailed drawings of locomotives. But take it with a grain of salt because I don't know how accurrate or precise those drawings are or if they're drawn by professionals or amatures, however the people who draw those take great care in their work.

Also you might try
http://www.trains.com/content/dynamic/articles/000/000/003/072nixxu.asp
which is an ariticle by Trains Magazine titled "Diesel Family Tree" which might give some background clues on what your looking for. Also look for that new diesel guide book by Trains Magazine in a bookstore or library.

Try also typing the locomotive model designation in the trains.com search engine.

All in all, the two locmotives are so similar, and the fact you have a high nose version is also rare, you might just have to use your imagination and create a scenario for why this locomotive is on your railroad. If it can't be use in a practical prototypical sence maybe it can be a special or showpiece of your layout. If worse comes to worse then just make believe.
[:)]

Have a good day.

[ironhorseman]

I think what fec153 is trying to say is don't get too obsessed with technical differences. Does it really matter in the end?

But despite all that, since you brought it up I myself became curious as to what the differences are/where. I tried to search the GE website but wasn't successful. I consulted the book "A Field Guide To Trains" by Gerald Foster.

The hard data:
U23B: 60' 2"; 2,250hp; 12 cyl; 1968-1977; 425 built
summary: 100s still in use to this day, have 6 full height access doors on either side. Foster writes "Counting access doors may seem unexciting... but in the case of GE and their many model numbers for nearly the same locomotive, the alternative is to be satisfied with "U-Boat."

GE B23-7: 62' 2"; 2,250hp; 12 cyl; 1977-1984; 421 built (appox)
summary: recognized by distinct step in hood forward of radiators. point where hood widens now ahead of exhaust stack and behind tall engine access doors. it's 2ft longer but trucks are still centered the same, space added at the end platforms. longer forward handrail and wider where platform meets steps. trucks: Blombuerg to GE floating-bolster. "A few where built with high nose and run backward."

It's not all word-for-word from the book but I hope my editing still makes it clear. There's a sketch of the B23-7 and not one of the U23B, but rather the one of the U36B and it is hard for me to tell the difference between the two.

You might want to check out
http://paintshop.railfan.net/ge.html
for some detailed drawings of locomotives. But take it with a grain of salt because I don't know how accurrate or precise those drawings are or if they're drawn by professionals or amatures, however the people who draw those take great care in their work.

Also you might try
http://www.trains.com/content/dynamic/articles/000/000/003/072nixxu.asp
which is an ariticle by Trains Magazine titled "Diesel Family Tree" which might give some background clues on what your looking for. Also look for that new diesel guide book by Trains Magazine in a bookstore or library.

Try also typing the locomotive model designation in the trains.com search engine.

All in all, the two locmotives are so similar, and the fact you have a high nose version is also rare, you might just have to use your imagination and create a scenario for why this locomotive is on your railroad. If it can't be use in a practical prototypical sence maybe it can be a special or showpiece of your layout. If worse comes to worse then just make believe.
[:)]

Have a good day.

[n2mopac]

I am the type that would usually agree with my friends above. I believe in representational modeling, and if there is very little visible difference between two loco's I will usually opt to go with it. In this case, however, there is one major visible difference between these two locomotives. The older U23B was among the last of the GE lines with radiators that were flush with the sides of the long hood. The dash 7 lines, including your B23-7, were the first lines to extend the edges of the radiators beyond the sides of the long hood, a trend that later on the dash 8 was further exaggerated into the distinctive GE look that you see on today's production models. The two loco's (U23B and B23-7) are otherwise quite similar. It may be possible to replace just the radiator section with a narrower, flush-fitting one and make a good representation of a U23B. Here are a couple of links with pic's of these locomotives the U23B can be seen at:
http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/ge/u23/cr2716ef.jpg
The B23-7 can be seen at:
http://www.blwnscale.com/Atlas%20B23-7%20Locomotive.htm
Hope all this helps. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
Ron

[n2mopac]

I am the type that would usually agree with my friends above. I believe in representational modeling, and if there is very little visible difference between two loco's I will usually opt to go with it. In this case, however, there is one major visible difference between these two locomotives. The older U23B was among the last of the GE lines with radiators that were flush with the sides of the long hood. The dash 7 lines, including your B23-7, were the first lines to extend the edges of the radiators beyond the sides of the long hood, a trend that later on the dash 8 was further exaggerated into the distinctive GE look that you see on today's production models. The two loco's (U23B and B23-7) are otherwise quite similar. It may be possible to replace just the radiator section with a narrower, flush-fitting one and make a good representation of a U23B. Here are a couple of links with pic's of these locomotives the U23B can be seen at:
http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/ge/u23/cr2716ef.jpg
The B23-7 can be seen at:
http://www.blwnscale.com/Atlas%20B23-7%20Locomotive.htm
Hope all this helps. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
Ron

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the WEALTH of information! That's what posting at this forum is for. As it is, I'm gonna use the B23-7's as they are (I picked up a second one as well), and wait until their anachronicity bugs me to the point that I find a way to backdate them. It seems as though it would only be shell modifications, since the wheelbase is the same, and really all I'd need is the radiator plus a few extra louvers just behind the cab. Oops: on a Southern long-hood forward unit, those louvers would be just ahead of the cab! Perhaps someday soon an enterprising small manufacturer will develop a U23-B shell that just drops in place, and save me the work. Of course, I'd have to retain the high-nose...

And to think, I haven't even checked yet to see if Southern ever had U23-B's. I'm sure if they did, they had tall snoots...

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the WEALTH of information! That's what posting at this forum is for. As it is, I'm gonna use the B23-7's as they are (I picked up a second one as well), and wait until their anachronicity bugs me to the point that I find a way to backdate them. It seems as though it would only be shell modifications, since the wheelbase is the same, and really all I'd need is the radiator plus a few extra louvers just behind the cab. Oops: on a Southern long-hood forward unit, those louvers would be just ahead of the cab! Perhaps someday soon an enterprising small manufacturer will develop a U23-B shell that just drops in place, and save me the work. Of course, I'd have to retain the high-nose...

And to think, I haven't even checked yet to see if Southern ever had U23-B's. I'm sure if they did, they had tall snoots...