RR Signals

[Anonymous]

This is going to really sound dumb, but here goes: I'm trying to figure out RR Signals. I want to add them to my future layout with block detection, but I'm trying to find some information on how they work. I assume they work similar to traffic signals, but I pass many per day on the way into work and can't sem to make sense of them. There's the three colours, but it also seems that there are two signals per track. I'm wondering if these indicate of an upcoming train based on configuration or it is only an indicator for the engineer once he gets there. Is there a set spacing or does it depend on curves and level crossings etc etc etc.
I figure there are some links to articles, but have yet to find them.

How's that for a newbie question.
Thanks


Hooked for Life !!

[Anonymous]

This is going to really sound dumb, but here goes: I'm trying to figure out RR Signals. I want to add them to my future layout with block detection, but I'm trying to find some information on how they work. I assume they work similar to traffic signals, but I pass many per day on the way into work and can't sem to make sense of them. There's the three colours, but it also seems that there are two signals per track. I'm wondering if these indicate of an upcoming train based on configuration or it is only an indicator for the engineer once he gets there. Is there a set spacing or does it depend on curves and level crossings etc etc etc.
I figure there are some links to articles, but have yet to find them.

How's that for a newbie question.
Thanks


Hooked for Life !!

[Anonymous]

I wish I knew. Signals continue to baffle me. I bought the Kalmbach book on operation, and it had a section about signals... and I STILL Don't get it!

I need some hard-and-fast rules so I can apply that logic to some sort of control system.

Guess I just have a mental block (no pun intended) when it comes to signals.

Rob

[Anonymous]

I wish I knew. Signals continue to baffle me. I bought the Kalmbach book on operation, and it had a section about signals... and I STILL Don't get it!

I need some hard-and-fast rules so I can apply that logic to some sort of control system.

Guess I just have a mental block (no pun intended) when it comes to signals.

Rob

[Anonymous]

I just completed three very informal non-operating lighted overhead bridge signals.

The plastic unit is made by model power.

I installed four radio shack 12 v LEDs in each unit that comes in orange-green & red & wired together, and then direct to a startup transformer throttled to 10volts.

Good night time color effect although lights never change color.

Total costs, eight to eleven bucks.

[Anonymous]

I just completed three very informal non-operating lighted overhead bridge signals.

The plastic unit is made by model power.

I installed four radio shack 12 v LEDs in each unit that comes in orange-green & red & wired together, and then direct to a startup transformer throttled to 10volts.

Good night time color effect although lights never change color.

Total costs, eight to eleven bucks.

[Anonymous]

They have some books on RR signals maybe from another RR publication I came across one some time ago at a train show I think It was called ''How to operate a train prototypically''?.Just check out the MR index.

[Anonymous]

They have some books on RR signals maybe from another RR publication I came across one some time ago at a train show I think It was called ''How to operate a train prototypically''?.Just check out the MR index.

[Anonymous]

I was once given a web address to a fellows site that had the best primer for signals I have ever read. It cleared up many things for me. Let me give a thumbnail overview of signals.

There are different kinds of signals; block, interlocking, etc. but they all give information to the engineer about how much track ahead of him is clear. A green indicates something to the effect of two clear blocks of track ahead; a yellow indicates one clear block and red indicates stop for no clear blocks. A second head indicates conditions on a diverging route. If an engineer is approaching a switch from the points end, he will see two signal heads. The upper head indicates conditions on the primary track, and the second signal head indicates conditions on the diverging route. With multiple heads, and multiple colors, there are many combinations of signal indications. One slogan from the website I mentioned: "If a signal is not all red, it is not red at all." If any of the heads shows something other than a red or stop indication, then the engineer has a clear route to proceed. But that doesn't mean this is the route he wanted to take. The many different signal head types and semiphors <sp?> are just different ways to get the stop/slow/proceed information to the engineer. As anyone who knows will tell you, this is a woefully brief description of signals. I will search through my stuff and see if I can get the web address for you. Good Luck - Ed

[Anonymous]

I was once given a web address to a fellows site that had the best primer for signals I have ever read. It cleared up many things for me. Let me give a thumbnail overview of signals.

There are different kinds of signals; block, interlocking, etc. but they all give information to the engineer about how much track ahead of him is clear. A green indicates something to the effect of two clear blocks of track ahead; a yellow indicates one clear block and red indicates stop for no clear blocks. A second head indicates conditions on a diverging route. If an engineer is approaching a switch from the points end, he will see two signal heads. The upper head indicates conditions on the primary track, and the second signal head indicates conditions on the diverging route. With multiple heads, and multiple colors, there are many combinations of signal indications. One slogan from the website I mentioned: "If a signal is not all red, it is not red at all." If any of the heads shows something other than a red or stop indication, then the engineer has a clear route to proceed. But that doesn't mean this is the route he wanted to take. The many different signal head types and semiphors <sp?> are just different ways to get the stop/slow/proceed information to the engineer. As anyone who knows will tell you, this is a woefully brief description of signals. I will search through my stuff and see if I can get the web address for you. Good Luck - Ed

[Anonymous]

Well, I got lucky and found it right away . . . The web address is

http://www.vcn.com/~alkrug/rrfacts/signals/signals.htm

I found it by searching for "alkrug" and then it was clear what to do from there. Enjoy. - Ed

[Anonymous]

Well, I got lucky and found it right away . . . The web address is

http://www.vcn.com/~alkrug/rrfacts/signals/signals.htm

I found it by searching for "alkrug" and then it was clear what to do from there. Enjoy. - Ed

[Anonymous]

An engineer once told me that all roads have there own signal rules and that's why there are no this is how to do it rules. I have an Operating Rules book from The Illinois Central Gulf Railroad dated july 1, 1985 that I try to use and go by. It has page after page of Block and interlock aspects along with ifs ands and buts. It's very complicated. It's 186 pages!

[Anonymous]

An engineer once told me that all roads have there own signal rules and that's why there are no this is how to do it rules. I have an Operating Rules book from The Illinois Central Gulf Railroad dated july 1, 1985 that I try to use and go by. It has page after page of Block and interlock aspects along with ifs ands and buts. It's very complicated. It's 186 pages!

[Sperandeo]

Allow me to recommend two of my own recent articles in MODELRAILROADER:

"Understanding railroad signals," page 105 in the December 2002 issue, about the basics of signalling on the real thing,

and "Signal buyer’s guide," with assistant editor Cody Grivno, page 64 in our
May 2003 issue, on where to find signals, circuits, and software, and with an update in the July issue, page 32.

So long,

Andy

[Sperandeo]

Allow me to recommend two of my own recent articles in MODELRAILROADER:

"Understanding railroad signals," page 105 in the December 2002 issue, about the basics of signalling on the real thing,

and "Signal buyer’s guide," with assistant editor Cody Grivno, page 64 in our
May 2003 issue, on where to find signals, circuits, and software, and with an update in the July issue, page 32.

So long,

Andy

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the information. I'll read the article in the Dec issue when it arrives. I actually bought that one as a lot on ebay, so I'm just waiting for it. It seems to be more complicated than I expected, I wonder if some of the layouts follow the rules or place the signals as a matter of convenience?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the information. I'll read the article in the Dec issue when it arrives. I actually bought that one as a lot on ebay, so I'm just waiting for it. It seems to be more complicated than I expected, I wonder if some of the layouts follow the rules or place the signals as a matter of convenience?

[Anonymous]

I put them where they look good. I have a simple cheat sheet I would email you if you want. Just email me for it...

[Anonymous]

I put them where they look good. I have a simple cheat sheet I would email you if you want. Just email me for it...

[Anonymous]

While we'e on this topic....
One thing to make note of is that realistic signalling systems on model railroads are rarely inexpensive. You can scale down the trains, the buildings, the scenery - but it's very difficult to scale down the electronics necessary to make the signals operate like the prototype. Unless you are prepared to invest a couple thousand dollars and the time required to understand how it all works, keep your expectations tiny.

Barry

[Anonymous]

While we'e on this topic....
One thing to make note of is that realistic signalling systems on model railroads are rarely inexpensive. You can scale down the trains, the buildings, the scenery - but it's very difficult to scale down the electronics necessary to make the signals operate like the prototype. Unless you are prepared to invest a couple thousand dollars and the time required to understand how it all works, keep your expectations tiny.

Barry

[Anonymous]

Unless you're really wanting a signal system thats based on an actual prototype, you may want to scaledown or simplify this and just go with your own simplified version based on the prototypes as a whole, you know, Red for stop, Yellow for caution, Green for go, Green/Yellow for proceed with caution, Red/Yellow for be prepared to stop.[^][:)]

[Anonymous]

Unless you're really wanting a signal system thats based on an actual prototype, you may want to scaledown or simplify this and just go with your own simplified version based on the prototypes as a whole, you know, Red for stop, Yellow for caution, Green for go, Green/Yellow for proceed with caution, Red/Yellow for be prepared to stop.[^][:)]

[Anonymous]

Good question, and some good replies, this is a good way to meet modelers and change ideas. This is a good hobby and it is full of people who want to share things. Keep asking and keep answering!

[Anonymous]

Good question, and some good replies, this is a good way to meet modelers and change ideas. This is a good hobby and it is full of people who want to share things. Keep asking and keep answering!

[Anonymous]

cablebridge did a great job describing signal operation, but I would like to add that depending on the method of operation, some signals can be just "block" signals, and do not govern the movement of trains, such as ABS with track warrents. they just protect trains. weras in a CTC system, the signal indication from a "control point" (signal) directly governs train movement. sounds like we all have figured signals out!!!
David

[Anonymous]

cablebridge did a great job describing signal operation, but I would like to add that depending on the method of operation, some signals can be just "block" signals, and do not govern the movement of trains, such as ABS with track warrents. they just protect trains. weras in a CTC system, the signal indication from a "control point" (signal) directly governs train movement. sounds like we all have figured signals out!!!
David

[Anonymous]

cablebridge did a great job describing signal operation, but I would like to add that depending on the method of operation, some signals can be just "block" signals, and do not govern the movement of trains, such as ABS with track warrents. they just protect trains. weras in a CTC system, the signal indication from a "control point" (signal) directly governs train movement. sounds like we all have figured signals out!!!
David

[Anonymous]

cablebridge did a great job describing signal operation, but I would like to add that depending on the method of operation, some signals can be just "block" signals, and do not govern the movement of trains, such as ABS with track warrents. they just protect trains. weras in a CTC system, the signal indication from a "control point" (signal) directly governs train movement. sounds like we all have figured signals out!!!
David